#geowebchat transcript, 19 August 2014: Maps and abstraction

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 9:42am Today on #geowebchat: Maps and abstraction. When is a map no longer a map? Join the chat at 12pm PDT 3pm EDT 8pm BST. Please RT!

@erictheise Aug 19, 11:58am rippin’ circular breathing sax piece on @revsnakeens’ #NewEdge on @wmbr, #geowebchat at noon re: maps & abstraction

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 11:59am Starting in a few moments: #geowebchat about maps & abstraction. Does a “map” have to be geographic? When is realism a disadvantage w/ maps?

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:00pm As always with #geowebchat, make sure you include the hashtag in all your tweets. Follow along with us here: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:00pm If you want to ignore #geowebchat, see if your twitter client can mute the hashtag. We’ll be chatting for the next hour.

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:04pm For today’s #geowebchat, let’s begin by sharing your favorite map-that’s-not-a-map. What are the boundaries of “mapping” to you?

@erictheise Aug 19, 12:04pm are we starting with 4′ 33″ today? #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:05pm @mappingmashups maps don’t have to be geographic but a “true” map has a spatial element eg: a map of the human body #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:05pm @erictheise Hah! Well, let’s take that literally: could we think of absence or whitespace on maps as a form of abstraction? #geowebchat

@erictheise Aug 19, 12:06pm i consider graphic music scores as mappings, some geo, most not. blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2007/… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:07pm In fact, at @stamen yesterday we met with @erinreiss who made this map using whitespace and abstraction: seethroughmaps.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/rei… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:08pm @tinyswirl So a “true” map is somehow constrained by real-world spatial orientation of objects? #geowebchat

@mapperz Aug 19, 12:09pm #geowebchat Open Fiction Map opengeofiction.net/#map=6/59.210/… non-real geographic

@RobKitchin Aug 19, 12:09pm need to make distinction btwn spatialisation and maps. One adds spatial refs to non-spatial data & vizs, other vizs spatial data #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:09pm @tinyswirl Reminds me of the distinction between #dataviz (spatial orientation undefined) and #sciviz (layout defined) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:10pm @tinyswirl …this leaving #geoviz in between, where two or three dimensions are fixed, but data overlays need not be. #geowebchat

@erictheise Aug 19, 12:10pm seems that there’s a certain tipping point where absence becomes abstraction, @mappingmashups, but absence can also focus. #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:11pm @mappingmashups IMO, yes. Whether it’s sketched on the back of an envelope or a cartographic masterpiece. Or memorised! #geowebchat

@erictheise Aug 19, 12:11pm “vignetting” is a type of absence, @mappingmashups, but the intent is to make you focus on cartographer’s agenda. #geowebchat

@map_ebooks Aug 19, 12:11pm Our notion of abstraction is based on predicate mapping which maps predicate symbols into abstract predicate symbols. #geowebchat

@mapperz Aug 19, 12:12pm cartogram scapetoad.choros.ch software #geowebchat #nongeo

@WxDan Aug 19, 12:12pm One of my favorites is an old XKCD “map” of IP address allocations. Is this really a map or just dataviz? xkcd.com/195/ #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:12pm Ooh, welcome to #geowebchat and to twitter, @map_ebooks!

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:13pm @mappingmashups I think I follow! lol new to #geowebchat

@rmcooper4 Aug 19, 12:13pm @map_ebooks “predicate mapping”? Where/Who does that idea come from? #intrigued #geowebchat

@erictheise Aug 19, 12:13pm as labels drop off of maps & geometry comes to the fore, that’s when abstract/concrete oscillates, @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:14pm @mapperz Cartograms are a good example of abstraction and geo/nongeo. Raises question of what geographic position is needed for. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:15pm @mapperz the spatial orientation on most cartograms mainly to help reader find data points (based on familiarity w/ other maps) #geowebchat

@mapperz Aug 19, 12:16pm @mappingmashups Voronoi treemap #maps via @kennethfield cartonerd.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/vorono… #nongeo #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/WPbes9Qa8I

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:18pm @WxDan The equivalent of a “Mind Map” for the ‘net. Two things with a *perceived* spatial element (eg: a “train of thought”). #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:18pm @rmcooper4 @map_ebooks “predicate mapping” comes from a markov chain, no? So meta. #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:19pm @RobKitchin @WxDan Ah, that makes the term clearer for me now. Thank you #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:19pm RT @RobKitchin: @WxDan It’s a spatialisation. We put 100s in the Atlas of Cyberspace. Free PDF download: kitchin.org/atlas/contents… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:21pm @tinyswirl @WxDan Mind Maps and Mental Maps seem to mean different things to non-geographers and geographers #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:22pm @tinyswirl @RobKitchin @WxDan & the spatialization isn’t always simply perceived or subjective. Self-organizing maps for ex #geowebchat

@map_ebooks Aug 19, 12:23pm (But by spatialisation I do not mean merely visualisation: a person who can only visualise can only take a limited view #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:25pm @map_ebooks Are you talking about 3+ dimensions? Or are you referring to non-visual (ie tactile) ways of knowing space? #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:26pm @mappingmashups @RobKitchin @WxDan Disagree. Self-organizing maps definitely have perceived spatial element. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:27pm RT @RobKitchin: @tinyswirl @WxDan usually uses a measure such as semantic proximity that can be used to create spatial referents #geowebchat

@RobKitchin Aug 19, 12:28pm @tinyswirl @mappingmashups @WxDan after constructed but not necessarily beforehand. That’s what spatialisation creates #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:28pm @tinyswirl @RobKitchin @WxDan I mean the spatiality is not determined by the map-maker’s subjective perception. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:32pm @RobKitchin Is each spatialization a one-off only valid for that visualization? Is “real” geog the only shared spatialization? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:33pm What distortions of spatial locations or artificial spatializations persist and take on lives of their own? Subway maps? #geowebchat

@map_ebooks Aug 19, 12:33pm multidimensional visualizations are not well-suited for this problem bc of the volume of information and its unstructured nature #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:34pm @RobKitchin @WxDan Ah, yes I think I misunderstood what @mappingmashups was getting at. Actual spatial=map (vs created spatial)? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:36pm RT @RobKitchin: @mappingmashups to a certain degree, but the same rule set and data should produce same/similar spatialisations #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:38pm @tinyswirl Yeah, it’s the challenge of communicating w/ the constraints of twitter. I think I wasn’t explaining well. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:39pm MT @RobKitchin: subway maps are topological maps not spatialisations. Don’t add spatial to non-spatial data but rearrange layout #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:42pm @mappingmashups This is my first #geowebchat so I’m just being a bit slow.

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:42pm So when can/should spatializations (aka data visualizations) borrow from the language of cartography? When shouldn’t they? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:44pm Usually I see data viz adopt cartographic styles for purely aesthetic reasons, like infographics using the tropes of subway maps #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:46pm @EcoAndrewTRC Good point. In the sense that all projections (& all maps) are abstractions, Mercator is like a shared mental map #geowebchat

@RobKitchin Aug 19, 12:46pm @mappingmashups when they are used as a map; Difference spatialisation & data viz per se is map-like qualities of former #geowebchat

@TheMapSmith Aug 19, 12:46pm @mappingmashups There is probably an academic distinction between carto and non-carto, but aren’t they both “design”? #geowebchat

@RobKitchin Aug 19, 12:47pm @mappingmashups we have an extensive discussion of maps vs spatialisations and cartographic theory in Mapping Cyberspace book #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:49pm @TheMapSmith Yes, design should be a part of both, & many of the same design guidelines apply to carto & non-carto. But not all? #geowebchat

@TheMapSmith Aug 19, 12:50pm Sometimes I put north arrows on infographics just for fun, does that count? #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:50pm Graphic with baby – spatialization or map? MT”@Visually: ow.ly/Av44c by @LandonDonovan81 pic.twitter.com/qfvQQQm9rs” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:52pm @TheMapSmith Since nobody puts them on maps anymore, why not? #geowebchat

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:53pm @mappingmashups @TheMapSmith which ones aren’t? #geowebchat

@RobKitchin Aug 19, 12:54pm @tinyswirl @Visually @LandonDonovan81 Neither. The graphic conveys no meaningful information through its spatial arrangement #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:56pm @tinyswirl @TheMapSmith That might be a topic for another #geowebchat. :) Similar to prev chats about whether cartographers are obsolete…

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:57pm Well, we are nearing the end of our #geowebchat about maps and abstraction. What did we miss? Any aspects we should revisit another time?

@TheMapSmith Aug 19, 12:57pm Another major non-spatial/spatial visualization is the straight line diagram. Very important in some industries #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:57pm Whether (and how) cartographic design rules differ from non-cartographic design rules would definitely be a good future #geowebchat topic.

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 12:59pm @TheMapSmith Right. Flattening 2 or 3 dimensions into a 1 dimensional “map”. Interesting. #geowebchat.

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 12:59pm @mappingmashups sounds like a #geowebchat I can learn a lot from :)

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 1:00pm Our next #geowebchat will be tangentially related: we’ll be discussing the role of hand-drawn maps in the geoweb era. Tue Sep 2, same time.

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 1:01pm Thanks everyone for joining today’s #geowebchat. Look forward to chatting with you next time!

@tinyswirl Aug 19, 1:02pm @mappingmashups @TheMapSmith like a proximity analysis – eg: concentration of contaminants according to distance from source? #geowebchat

@MapHugger Aug 19, 1:30pm @mappingmashups Late to #geowebchat, but my two favorite unmaps: l-degrees.com thebolditalic.com/articles/3202-…

@jasondowns Aug 19, 4:13pm @mappingmashups I always miss #geowebchat because of time differences. Today’s looked awesome. I love this particular topic. Thanks.

@mappingmashups Aug 19, 5:12pm Definitely relevant to today’s #geowebchat: “Experiments in Literary Cartography” visualandcriticalstudies.com/2014/08/11/ber…

@mappingmashups Aug 20, 10:28pm Here’s @xkcd using California as a y-axis xkcd.com/1410/ cc @TheMapSmith #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/8bY9BFLNAa

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#geowebchat transcript, 15 July 2014: Mapping the geographies of sport

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 10:12am Today on #geowebchat: mapping the geographies of sport. Join us for 1 hour starting at 12pm PDT, 3pm EDT, 8pm BST.

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 10:32am What’s @nytgraphics’s most famous map? The one about baseball fans, apparently. nytimes.com/interactive/20… #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/YHvxlHh844

@erictheise Jul 15, 11:01am keeping an eye on two back-to-back webchats today: #RoadtoCicerone 11-12 PDT; #geowebchat 12-1 PDT on geography of sport.

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:00pm Welcome to today’s #geowebchat! We’re talking about mapping the geographies of sport. Interpret that as broadly as you like!

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:01pm If you want to join in with #geowebchat, just make sure to include the hashtag in all your tweets. Follow along here: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:01pm (And if you want to ignore #geowebchat, see if your twitter client can mute the hashtag. We’ll be at it for about one hour)

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:03pm For “mapping sport” that could include mapping the action in the game, the venues, the players, or broader social impacts… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:05pm For example, here was an interesting “map” of the range of various #worldcup goalkeepers from @nytimes: nytimes.com/interactive/20… #geowebchat

@bdon Jul 15, 12:05pm #geowebchat a look at what NBA teams would look like if every player “went home” like LeBron to NE Ohio: imgur.com/a/79WvK

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:05pm …which reminds me of some heat maps (using hexbins!) of NBA shots: infosthetics.com/archives/2012/… #geowebchat

@bdon Jul 15, 12:05pm #geowebchat poses interesting spatial questions e.g. where to draw the line between Knicks/Nets or Lakers/Clips

@skorasaurus Jul 15, 12:05pm @kirkgoldsberry designer of some great basketball visualizations (maps?) deserves a mention. ex: grantland.com/the-triangle/t… #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Jul 15, 12:08pm much more attention to analytics in #nba in past 3yrs, & spatial is a big component of it. (shot charts, player mvment) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:09pm .@bdon Right, and something like the #worldcup makes us think about what “home” and nationality mean: visualizing.org/visualizations… #geowebchat

@bdon Jul 15, 12:09pm Awkward geographical constructions perpetuated through sport: New England, Golden State, Anaheim, Northeast Ohio #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:10pm Yes @skorasaurus, let’s definitely use a big definition of “map” today to include dataviz like @kirkgoldsberry’s. #geowebchat

@geodosu Jul 15, 12:11pm @mappingmashups @skorasaurus @kirkgoldsberry Here’s one of player links at world cup, via clubs: is.gd/4vaa0S #geowebchat

@jqtrde Jul 15, 12:12pm A map of English Premier League stadiums that I made: a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/jacques.h68… #geowebchat

@mapperz Jul 15, 12:12pm #geowebchat worldcup final twitter #map huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/14/wor…

@bdon Jul 15, 12:12pm #geowebchat major barrier to commoditized spatial analytics in sports is proprietary data collection: news agencies, teams willing to pay $$

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:13pm .@bdon Some might call them awkward, but to others they are more “common sense” like this: commoncensus.org/maps.php #geowebchat

@jqtrde Jul 15, 12:13pm And another of the Bundesliga a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/jacques.h6b… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:14pm .@jqtrde Right, and mapping stadiums is also something that can emphasize differences in data quality: wired.com/2014/06/google… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:15pm After #OpenStreetMap got to brag about its better Sochi maps (wired.com/2014/02/sochi-…), Google got the upper hand this time… #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Jul 15, 12:16pm #geowebchat, sport fields are relatively easy to identify in sat. imagery; & map for #osm, etc #geowebchat

@rmcooper4 Jul 15, 12:18pm On politics of stadiums: Atl Braves used maps to justify move from downtown to Cobb Co. #geowebchat goo.gl/Z9nZOL

@skorasaurus Jul 15, 12:21pm wired article reminds me that maps of stadium amenities (concession stands, etc.,) are underutilized.. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:23pm @rmcooper4 Very interesting! A reversal to admit that the fans are in the suburbs, rather than stadium-as-redevelopment-tool #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Jul 15, 12:25pm @rmcooper4 nice find homeofthebraves.com/wp-content/upl… (locations of tix sold for braves games). Great idea/premise of map; poor execution #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:28pm Revisiting @bdon’s comment about what-if NBA players went “home” here are some maps of players by state deadspin.com/infographics-w… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:31pm This @FiveThirtyEight piece gets into the intersection of int’l economics, & the geodemographics of fans: fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-c… #geowebchat

@rmcooper4 Jul 15, 12:38pm @mappingmashups @bdon Flip-side: what teams are “closest” to being full of native (sorry to use that term) players. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:40pm @skorasaurus @rmcooper4 Comparing ATL map w/ NYT: a ring of fewer fans in burbs nytimes.com/interactive/20… #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/QMnJAP5QCV

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:45pm Also, for #geowebchat let’s not forget self-quantification that also counts as cartographies of sport: strava.com/saturday-heatm… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jul 15, 12:50pm @mappingmashups, on the #quantifiedSelf front, i was happy that gps tracking was added in latest release of @fitbit’s iphone app #geowebchat

@geodosu Jul 15, 12:52pm @mappingmashups I’m intrigued as to technologies used to track players in pro sports not GPS, I guess #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:53pm At @stamen we’re having quite a conversation about sports teams from places like Anaheim, Golden State, New England… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jul 15, 12:53pm related to #quantifiedSelf if not narrower sport topic, interesting cfp: computer.org/portal/web/com… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:54pm For Golden State, NE, & things like the Arizona pro teams, it’s about appealing to a larger fanbase from nearby cities, no? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 12:58pm We’re about to wrap up this #geowebchat about sport, but I can’t resist dropping one last #critgeog link ibtimes.com/why-rios-favel… #geowebchat

@rmcooper4 Jul 15, 12:58pm @mappingmashups Maybe sport culture in the reg too. Indy has Indiana Pacers(nba) and Indy Colts(nfl). State culture is bball #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 1:01pm Thanks everybody for joining today’s #geowebchat, but our time is up. Next chat is in 3 weeks on August 5. I need a guest host, any takers?

@mappingmashups Jul 15, 1:06pm RT @mpmckenna8: @mappingmashups how about ‘dem Santa Clara 49ers. Also New York Giants and Jets in NJ. #geowebchat

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#geowebchat transcript, 1 July 2014: Vector cartography part 2

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 8:35am Today on #geowebchat: part 2 of our chat about vector-based web cartography mappingmashups.net/2014/06/17/geo… Join us at 12pm PDT, Tues July 1!

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:00pm Welcome to our #geowebchat about vector mapping! We’re continuing the chat from last time: mappingmashups.net/2014/06/17/geo… All are welcome to join.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:01pm If you want to join #geowebchat, just include the hashtag in all your tweets. tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat is a handy tool, too.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:01pm And if you want to ignore these #geowebchat tweets, see if your twitter client has the ability to mute hashtags.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:03pm I’ve been browsing WebGL map implementations for #geowebchat: There’s the new @Mapbox GL, cool stuff from @mapzen, also @GLMapFramework

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:05pm At the end of the last #geowebchat, @professorlemeza post this great @mapzen demo: vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.757… Has anyone played with it yet?

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:09pm @mappingmashups @professorlemeza @mapzen #geowebchat love it. What’s the vector format like

@erictheise Jul 01, 12:10pm @mappingmashups, been watching progress of @professorlemeza & @meetar’s demos, looking at learningwebgl.com when i can. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:12pm @bohuang3d Here is the repository for the @mapzen demo @professorlemeza posted: github.com/meetar/tangram… cc @meetar #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:13pm @bohuang3d Does your SenseEarth.com site use WebGL? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:16pm Also, in last #geowebchat we talked mainly about vector data tiles and WebGL, but arguably #d3js is another vector revolution in web maps…

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:16pm RT @woolie: @bohuang3d @mapzen @professorlemeza @meetar Awesome elevator animation, reminds me of :) pic.twitter.com/Pz1XrMWDTw #geowebchat

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:17pm #geowebchat Been experimenting with consuming Vector Tiles in a @LeafletJS canvas layer. Works well! Also looking at @mapzen work!

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:17pm I mean, @jasondavies’s and @mbostock’s demos like jasondavies.com/maps/transitio… are unimaginable with raster mapping #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:19pm @apollolm Cool! What styling language are you using for your vector data in canvas? #geowebchat

@woolie Jul 01, 12:19pm #geowebchat I’m experimenting with Mapbox vector tiles to make interactive maps from census data.

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:21pm @mappingmashups Adobe Flash. Hehe me outcast #geowebchat

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:23pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat Brute forcing it now using regular canvas stroke and fill properties. Will use converter from nodeTiles soon.

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:24pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat Nodetiles github project uses a CartoCSS parser to convert to canvas styling…slick.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:25pm @apollolm Interesting! I’m curious if CartoCSS will be able to evolve with the vector era? I know it won’t be part of #MapboxGL #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:28pm @mappingmashups @apollolm My understanding is dom elements using Canvas is not implemented with webgl right #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:34pm @professorlemeza @apollolm Is this the nodetiles project you’re talking about? github.com/nodetiles #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:36pm So, @mapzen’s vector rendering is built on @OpenScienceMap. (opensciencemap.org) Anyone here have any experience with that? #geowebchat

@allafarce Jul 01, 12:37pm @mappingmashups @professorlemeza @apollolm Aside, that’s the fine work of @codeforamerica folks @bensheldon @Mr0grog @yuletide #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:38pm @mappingmashups @mapzen @OpenScienceMap I love how the coast lines are rendered and wonder how it’s done. #geowebchat

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:40pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat yes, that is the project. In nodetiles-core/libs there is a cartoRenderer.js file. I think the logic is there

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:40pm @bohuang3d @OpenScienceMap Are you talking about the coastlines in the @mapzen demo? Can you share a screenshot? #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:44pm Only on Android. Web renderer is a new WebGL project MT @mappingmashups: @mapzen’s vector rendering is built on @OpenScienceMap #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:44pm Talking about styling languages, has anyone used #MapCSS? Looks like that’s what @GLMapFramework uses. Any better for vectors? #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:44pm @mappingmashups @OpenScienceMap @mapzen Perhaps vector.io/vector-map/#ma… #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:46pm @bohuang3d @mappingmashups @mapzen we construct a polyline outline around the coastline polygons and style those separately #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:47pm @mappingmashups @OpenScienceMap @mapzen These coastline as OSM Ways would span many tiles. Perhaps some processing to split? #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:49pm @bohuang3d @mappingmashups the geometry is simplified and split into vector tiles server-side mapzen.com/vector/ #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:50pm @professorlemeza @mappingmashups @mapzen And split the east coast polyline into the millions of tiles it goes through? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:53pm @bohuang3d Could you start with some subdivided coast polygons like these? openstreetmapdata.com/data/land-poly… #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:53pm @bohuang3d @mappingmashups @mapzen oh, the coastline polyline is added as each tile is rendered client-side #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:54pm @mappingmashups @bohuang3d that’s exactly what we do! :) see mapzen.com/vector/ for details #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:54pm RT @woolie: @professorlemeza Is there a configuration to generate the entire set and cache as mbtiles for easier deployment? #geowebchat

@tmcw Jul 01, 12:54pm @mappingmashups @apollolm moving towards JSON-encoded styles. CartoCSS was built around Mapnik’s rendering model exclusively #geowebchat

@tmcw Jul 01, 12:55pm @mappingmashups @GLMapFramework the CSS metaphor for maps doesn’t have the same ring it used to + JSON tooling is far better #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:56pm @woolie @bohuang3d @mappingmashups I’m sure it could be, we are refreshing the OSM data daily and regenerating tiles on demand #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 1:01pm Well, we’re at the end of another #geowebchat. Thanks for joining, and enjoy the #worldcup game everyone!

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 1:03pm Next #geowebchat will be on July 15, at the same time. Topic TBD. See you all then!

@apollolm Jul 01, 1:03pm #geowebchat how is interaction with WebgL handled? Click events? Mouse over?

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 1:03pm @mappingmashups I think I’ll depend on Brett’s product ;). SenseEarth.com is more for fun and would love any solution. #geowebchat

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#geowebchat transcript, 17 June 2014: Vector cartography part 1

@mappingmashups Jun 16, 10:26am Tomorrow on #geowebchat, let’s talk about vector cartography. @Mapbox GL, the new @googlemaps, #iOSmaps & more! Tue Jun 17, 12pm PDT.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 11:59am Hey everyone, it’s time for our bi-weekly #geowebchat. Today’s topic is vector maps, but I wonder if everyone’s busy watching #worldcup?

@lyzidiamond Jun 17, 12:00pm .@mappingmashups Oooh, vector maps! #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 17, 12:00pm .@mappingmashups that’s what two screens are for, one for #geowebchat, one for #WorldCup

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:00pm @lyzidiamond I know, right? But I’d rather have a decent chat about vector maps, so if #geowebchat is a ghost town I’ll bump it 2 weeks.

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:01pm @lyzidiamond @mappingmashups Oh wow, super-topical today Alan. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:02pm #geowebchat Does Google use tiled vectors, or have they completely broken out of the paradigm?

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:03pm @vtcraghead The tile paradigm? I don’t know. Anybody recall seeing how the data loads from a slow connection? #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:04pm i’m not much of a sports fan, tho have to say being in brooklyn bars during #WorldCup was pretty energizing; today i watch #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:05pm @mappingmashups Haven’t inspected yet. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:06pm But at this point with vector rendering, tiles aren’t that interesting… they’re just the transmission medium. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:06pm am i alone in thinking that new google vector maps are brittle; slow-loading, erratic, “rats, webGL encountered a problem”? #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:07pm Wouldn’t vector tiling also include generalization at different levels? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:08pm @spara Probably for optimization purposes, but hey – Google doesn’t care about processing limits, right? :) #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Jun 17, 12:08pm Do vector tiles allow us to move outside of the preset zooms that exist with raster tiling? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:10pm @spara True, even if there are no longer proper zoom levels, you would still want to generalize at various zooms. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:12pm @erictheise I haven’t had much trouble with them… but sometimes, yes. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:15pm they’re well-behaved on my iphone, @mappingmashups, but full-screen, clicks often queue up & ux is disturbingly unpredictable. #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:16pm Any critiques of Mapbox GL yet? #geowebchat

@pwramsey Jun 17, 12:17pm @spara There does appear to be a whole server side that goes undiscussed #geowebchat

@mapzen Jun 17, 12:17pm Want to experiment with vector tiles? Check out our new open/free OSM vector service: mapzen.com/vector #geowebchat

@mapmeld Jun 17, 12:18pm I get the GeoJSON vector tiles like OSM’s that crayonmap.herokuapp.com uses. MapBox is using protobuf which I don’t understand #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:19pm @pwramsey @spara Perhaps there could be some illumination to that end with MapboxGL? Or are they locked into tiled vectors? #geowebchat

@cartocalypse Jun 17, 12:20pm @lyzidiamond you could use the data to render any scale but you would probably pre-filter the data based on a target zoomlevel #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 12:20pm @pwramsey @spara we’re cutting simple vector tiles @mapzen w/postgis ST_SimplifyPreserveTopology by zoom: mapzen.com/vector #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:20pm @mapmeld The return of strong typing! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:21pm @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond The Mapbox Streets vectors are generalized at zooms lower than z14, but at 14 they have full detail #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:24pm For vector map details, @Mapbox has been blogging lots mapbox.com/blog/drawing-a… mapbox.com/blog/placing-l… mapbox.com/blog/text-sign… #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 12:25pm @mappingmashups @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond in my limited experience their z14 tiles can be too heavy – so many buildings at z14 #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Jun 17, 12:25pm isn’t mapboxgl ios only at the moment (for the public)? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:26pm RT @tmcw: @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond they’re always generalized to a zoom, otherwise osm overnoding would cripple speeds #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:28pm RT @npdoty: I’d say tiles are interesting as data sources: what gets sent, how is it represented, whence it came. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:31pm RT @spara: @mappingmashups @npdoty I think it’s interesting that the client is receiving data (shades of WFS, bite my tongue) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @tmcw: @colocarto @vtcraghead @pwramsey @spara vector renderers use the new style spec: github.com/mapbox/mapbox-… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @tmcw: @pwramsey the style spec is still very heavily under development – we opted for opening source early. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @npdoty: @lyzidiamond Yes! Arbitrary zoom levels, even down to the absurd 1:1, e.g. npdoty.name/onexactitude #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:33pm Hey everyone talking about vector maps, remember to include #geowebchat in your tweets so we can all follow the discussion

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:38pm @mappingmashups @spara @npdoty vector tiles are more data than png is, but they are definitely not anything like raw data #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:41pm @tmcw @spara @npdoty Yeah, a lot of selection goes into making the vector data tiles that will influence how they’re rendered #geowebchat

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:42pm @mappingmashups @spara @npdoty not to say there aren’t useful externalities. our reverse geocoder runs on vector tiles. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:42pm As @professorlemeza points out there are _all_ the bldgs at z14 but you can’t filter by area because the area field isn’t incl. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:43pm RT @tmcw: tiles: simplified for zoom, subsetted attributes, no invisible features, coord are relative to tile 0,0 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:50pm So, what new cartographic styles are made possible by vector mapping? Things like Burning Map: maps.stamen.com/burningmap/#12… #geowebchat

@katenesse Jun 17, 12:52pm Only in Chrome? RT @mappingmashups: What new cartographic styles enabled by vector mapping? Burning Map: maps.stamen.com/burningmap/#12… #geowebchat

@bgolder Jun 17, 12:54pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat vector tiles are easier to edit with spatial transformations. So having a 3D camera seems a bit easier.

@spara Jun 17, 12:55pm @mappingmashups I like that! Can be used to symbolize the fuzziness of a boundary. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:55pm @katenesse Well, Burning Map was made two years ago. I bet today we could’ve made it work on more browsers. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:57pm @bgolder Could you elaborate on this? I’m not following. #geowebchat

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:58pm @mappingmashups @bgolder pseudo-3d tilt-cam works well with gl, and label placement / sizing is much better than before #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:00pm Well, everyone, thanks for joining today’s semi-distracted #geowebchat. I’m sure this won’t be the last time we talk about vectors.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:01pm Today’s #geowebchat transcript will be posted here shortly: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/. Next chat will be July 1st, same time.

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:01pm @tmcw @mappingmashups #geowebchat think of the “aerial” views used by navigation software.

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:05pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat you can programmatically adjust the screen coordinates of geometry, so you can transform it based on a viewpoint

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:07pm @bgolder Ahh, I see. I was confused by the idea of “editing” them… but transforming and modifying vectors makes sense. #geowebchat

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:13pm #geowebchat I imagine that dynamic styles like Burning Map could be useful to show motion or activity, perhaps with real-time updates

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:38pm RT @michalmigurski: Half of cartography is in data: feature selection, generalization, layering. Lessons of vector tiles. #geowebchat

@woolie Jun 17, 1:41pm Need to set a reminder for next #geowebchat. Missed great discussion of vector tiles, which I’m glad to report are awesome.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:41pm RT @PetersonGIS: @michalmigurski But that’s not a lesson specifically of vector tiles: it’s always been half of cartography. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:42pm @woolie If you need a #geowebchat reminder, add this to your calendar program: webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 2:58pm @mappingmashups geom deformations & pixel shaders: vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.761… vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.759… #geowebchat

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#geowebchat transcript, 3 June 2014: Indoor mapping and navigation

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 10:35am Today’s #geowebchat: indoor mapping and navigation. Join us at 12pm PDT, 3pm EDT, 8pm BST. Spread the word!

@erictheise Jun 03, 11:22am i’ll participate. if i can find my way to the computer. MT @mappingmashups Today’s #geowebchat: indoor mapping and navigation. 12pm PDT

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:00pm Our #geowebchat about indoor maps & navigation is starting now! All are welcome to join in. Remember to include the hashtag in your tweets.

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:01pm If you want to ignore our biweekly #geowebchat, see if your twitter client can mute hashtags. To follow along, try: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:03pm Here’s a recent story that got me thinking about indoor nav: bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/map… Using buildings’ magnetic fingerprints #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:05pm anyone have a handle on the state of #OSM indoor mapping? wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Indoor_Ma… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:05pm And of course there’s been a lot of work done on using WiFi for indoor positioning: directionsmag.com/articles/10-th… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:10pm i thought about doing some indoor tagging in #OSM for the vendors in our #FerryBuilding before today’s #geowebchat, but… confusing.

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:10pm Here’s an interesting proposal (from 2012) for an OpenIndoorMaps: blog.openstreetmap.org/2012/01/19/ope… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:11pm I wonder, does @OSMBuildings have any opinions on the standard tagging for features _inside_ buildings? #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Jun 03, 12:12pm @mappingmashups The scary thing abt indoor mapping is the potential for targeted ads when near products. Useful but invasive. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:12pm plus, there’s a strong pull to trace floor plan image , and then you hit the copyright concerns. some feign ignorance, no? #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Jun 03, 12:13pm @mappingmashups That should have read: maps useful, ads invasive #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:13pm @mikehyslop Good point. Although is it much worse than the potential of targeted ads when walking past shops on the street? #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Jun 03, 12:14pm @mappingmashups No, the annoyance would be the same. Maybe more pervasive – time will tell… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:15pm @erictheise Yeah, licensing for floor plans is certainly a concern. But in many cases building owners might want to share #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:16pm .@googlemaps lets you upload floor plans for display in Google Maps. Licensing is not immediately clear. google.com/maps/about/par… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:16pm RT @bgrassbluecrab: @mikehyslop i wonder the degree to which indoor maps useful for planning vs. capturing static indoor space #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:16pm @mappingmashups @mikehyslop sticking w/my example of @SFFerryBuilding, if i’m there, i’m on food mission & open to deals & ads. #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:16pm .@mappingmashups @re_sieber We should now try an old school Bunge expedition vs. #OpenData expedition on the same county/city #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:18pm @mappingmashups @erictheise wonder about the licensing for public spaces’s floorplan anyways, since they are out in the open #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:18pm .@mappingmashups @re_sieber like one team fieldwork only, no downloads, the other #OpenData only, to see how different the story #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:19pm But maybe surveying interior spaces is becoming easy enough without needing the official floor plans: gizmodo.com/just-tap-your-… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:21pm a long ago meetup w/@micello, concerns raised about posting, e.g., airport terminal maps, convention centers, @bgrassbluecrab #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:21pm apps and fieldwork only get places public can go, magnetic/wifi methods might map out secure spaces (like bank vaults?) #geowebchat

@jonahadkins Jun 03, 12:22pm @mappingmashups My Company Is Starting To Some Cool Stuff With That and iBeacons gisiindoors.com cc @GISiIndoors #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:22pm .@mappingmashups @re_sieber like next #AAG Chicagoans presenting their fieldwork vs. the rest of the world relying on #OpenData. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:25pm @jonahadkins @GISiIndoors Interesting! I haven’t looked closely at iBeacon. Opens questions of interoperability indoors, too. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:26pm @bgrassbluecrab Yeah, mapping indoor spaces could reveal voids in buildings w/ secret and/or sensitive stuff. Hidden passages! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:28pm @MGeomatic What do you think the Bunge-like approach would be for indoor mapping? I wonder… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:28pm ha, just submitted a typo fix pull request to yarl/osmtools-indoor; who says it’s all conceptual in a #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:31pm .@mappingmashups sorry about that, I was thinking more to indoor mappers vs. navigating mappers… #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:33pm .@mappingmashups however, I guess that approach would be to map people & patterns indoor rather than 3D corridors & escalators #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:34pm @MGeomatic Don’t be sorry! #geowebchat topics can span multiple weeks and remix/intertwine!

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:40pm .@mappingmashups the fact is there’s something frustrating about uploaded indoor/laser 3D maps: they seem so sterile & sanitized #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:44pm @MGeomatic Indeed. Need to think of what indoor countermapping might look like. How to make indoor maps tell multiple stories? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:45pm I’m certainly discovering new twitter accounts to follow with this #geowebchat: @indoorLBS, @GISiIndoors…

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:48pm I almost forgot this fascinating viz tracking movements w/in a conference by following wifi MAC addresses apps.opendatacity.de/relog/ #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:51pm .@mappingmashups @MGeomatic @SFFerryBuilding would make another good example: as transit hub, shopping area, or clean bathrooms #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:53pm @bgrassbluecrab @MGeomatic Yes! And @SFFerryBuilding is a place w/ multiple publics using it, workers, travelers, customers, etc #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:54pm (I’ll take the silence in this part of #geowebchat to mean that everyone is busily adding indoor features to @openstreetmap as we speak)

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:55pm .@mappingmashups @openstreetmap to be honest, I’ve never indoor mapped. I usu. get where I’m going and put the phone away #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:58pm @mappingmashups @MGeomatic I actually want to do @SFFerryBuilding as a test case. Wonder what it would entail #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:58pm if i get around to indoor mapping @SFFerryBuilding i’ll write it up. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:01pm @erictheise Sounds great. Or we do a @SFFerryBuilding mapping party sometime #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:02pm So, next #geowebchat is in two weeks, on Tuesday June 17, at the same time. Let me know if you have any topics you’d like us to discuss!

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:02pm Maybe we’ll have some indoor mapping on #openstreetmap to show off at the next #geowebchat?

@erictheise Jun 03, 1:03pm what would be the point, @mappingmashups, you won’t eat the main attraction @hogislandoyster? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:04pm @erictheise I thought the point of @SFFerryBuilding was to visit three different ice cream shops and four cheese places at once! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:04pm @erictheise @SFFerryBuilding (I sense an edit war brewing) #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 1:05pm @mappingmashups @erictheise I’d be game for an @SFFerryBuilding mapping party. I’m usually there for the boats #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:06pm As always the transcript of today’s #geowebchat will be posted here shortly: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ Thanks to all who joined!

@erictheise Jun 03, 1:06pm i’m all about the #geobivalves @hogislandoyster, @mappingmashups, but we can agree to disagree. #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 2:12pm .@mappingmashups @bgrassbluecrab on airports, they’re these stimulating insights monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/dutyfree #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/5ol0SAVt0k

@OSMBuildings Jun 03, 2:36pm @mappingmashups Impossible for me to cover indoor at the moment :-( #geowebchat

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