#geowebchat transcript, 10 January 2012


Alan McConchiemappingmashups Today’s #geowebchat topic: How do we teach the geoweb? Share anything from practical experiences to high-level observations & opinion. 8:02 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber How to teach the #geoweb. 1st Q: how much computer sci is req’d? I think @ least server/cloud-side prog #geowebchat. 8:02 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber For geography undergrads, this amt of computer programming was HUGELY difficult. #geowebchat 8:04 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber Should they have to write code from scratch, or is it okay just tweaking example code? #geowebchat 8:04 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber KMLs they could get, after some instruction. The JS, Python was grasped by only some. #geowebchat 8:05 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism @re_sieber RE: #geowebchat fundamentals, I think students do need a conceptual understanding of the infrastructures and some scripting. 8:05 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @mappingmashups I had them mostly tweak but we underest the amt of knowledge nec to modify existing code. #geowebchat 8:06 PM UTC Jan 10th

Mark Grahamgeoplace #geowebchat -How to teach the #geoweb. Teaching the geoweb to whom? (uni students?) & teaching what? creating content? analysing/mapping it? 8:06 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @geoplace For me, it’s ab preparing geog/urb planning students for what the workplc needs and what research will req. #geowebchat 8:08 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @geoplace e.g., in last exercise, they harvested Twitter by plc. That reqd scripting Python, understanding JSON & fig out OAuth. #geowebchat 8:09 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism Teaching the #geoweb is also about teaching the conditions through which the geoweb emerges #geowebchat #critgis 8:10 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber @geoplace We could also think about teaching, say, activists or community groups to make maps, maybe edit OSM? #geowebchat 8:11 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @wilsonism A lot depends on what you mean by scripting. Tagging or coding? Even mashing often reqs lots of coding. #geowebchat 8:11 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism @mappingmashups There is certainly an opportunity to ‘teach’ #geoweb through univ-community partnerships #geowebchat 8:13 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @wilsonism Int problem. If you wish to engage undergrads w #geoweb then I think it’s a disservice to only do embeds or MLs. #geowebchat. 8:13 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @wilsonism But then, with all that content, how do you shoehorn in the critical theory? #geowebchat 8:14 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism @re_sieber Linking technical with critical practice is tricky, but I think the opportunity outweighs the cost #geowebchat 8:16 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @wilsonism @mappingmashups Here’s where mashups, KMLs, and spatial analysis & viz are very useful. It becomes a mini-GIS course #geowebchat 8:16 PM UTC Jan 10th

Geo SpeechGeoSpeech #geowebchat high level observation: given the necessary focus, #geoweb should progress into a stand-alone branch of geography. 8:17 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups As teacher of carto, I’m concerned w/ geoweb as tool for making/distributing maps & teaching critical “geoweb-reading”. Less GIS #geowebchat 8:17 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @wilsonism @re_sieber The technical examples certainly make for more grounded crit, perhaps makes crit easier to teach? #geowebchat 8:18 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @wilsonism @re_sieber Whether the crit makes the tech easier to teach… probably not so much. #geowebchat 8:19 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism @mappingmashups And vice versa; perhaps the ‘critical’ makes the technical easier to enact, while we’re chasing binaries #geowebchat 8:20 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @GeoSpeech Whoa. Interesting. Could be interdisciplinary. But does it have the staying power to become its own branch? #geowebchat 8:21 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @GeoSpeech do you see geoweb standing alongside GIS, or maybe as umbrella field (or in lieu of it?) #geowebchat 8:22 PM UTC Jan 10th

Geo SpeechGeoSpeech @re_sieber the means of exchange will continue to evolve, this is just the beginning… #geowebchat 8:22 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism @GeoSpeech @re_sieber Why would one want discourse around the #geoweb kept outside Geography? #geowebchat 8:23 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber Maybe we can start w the miminal set that needs to be taught, an NCGIA type curriculum. #1 KMLs. #geowebchat 8:23 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber What about KMLs? Hand-editing them? #geowebchat 8:24 PM UTC Jan 10th

Geo SpeechGeoSpeech @mappingmashups since #gis is also a tool/technique within geography to relate information to wide audiences, i think so #geowebchat 8:25 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @wilsonism @GeoSpeech Central problem. Now majority of discourse occurs outside geog and those outside DON’T CARE what we say. #geowebchat 8:26 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @mappingmashups Writing from scratch, modifying (sometimes by hand). To understand basics. #geowebchat 8:27 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @re_sieber @wilsonism @GeoSpeech We cannot ignore this. We have to 1st become relevant to them b4 we can engage them. #geowebchat 8:28 PM UTC Jan 10th

Hugh Stimsonhughstimson @GeoSpeech Not sure about a solo discipline, but I can imagine a geoweb solo course. Good grounding for further GIS. #geowebchat #geowebchat 8:28 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber Soon we’ll have enough tools that we don’t need to see inside KML, but seeing basic HTML is still imp, too, I guess. #geowebchat 8:29 PM UTC Jan 10th

Geo SpeechGeoSpeech #geowebchat @wilsonism oh no, not outside of #geography, but a specialized area of geo, same as carto, economic, gis, etc. 8:29 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @re_sieber @wilsonism @GeoSpeech Otherwise, we end up talking to ourselves. & don’t expect ngo’s to naturally come to geog. #geowebchat 8:30 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber I’d like a curriculum to be tool-agnostic, but I think some contact w/ both Google & FLOSS is important. #geowebchat 8:32 PM UTC Jan 10th

Geo SpeechGeoSpeech @hughstimson you got my point right away, #geowebchat, there are #gis certificates & degrees, #geoweb should fit that mold. 8:32 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @mappingmashups Will we ever not need to see inside KML? Not sure. HTML is far too simple for what KMLs/KMZs can do. #geowebchat. 8:32 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @re_sieber @mappingmashups (‘course, I still frequently write HTML from scratch.) #geowebchat 8:33 PM UTC Jan 10th

Hugh Stimsonhughstimson Unlike traditional GIS, geoweb tools are often designed for comprehension. An advantage for enthusing the unenthused. #geowebchat 8:33 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber Well, just thinking by analogy that we don’t need to see inside SHP. #geowebchat 8:33 PM UTC Jan 10th

Hugh Stimsonhughstimson @mappingmashups Depends how many layers of the onion you want to peel back. Neogeo (aka geoweb) rewards partial understanding. #geowebchat 8:34 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber Me too. Maybe I’m oldschool & not comfy enough w/ Dreamweaver, but HTML still isn’t WYSYWIG even w/out dynamic stuff. #geowebchat 8:36 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @mappingmashups Hard 2 ignore Google suite, esp its interoperability. (I know FOSS, but FLOSS? Just ate lunch so I should FLOSS) #geowebchat 8:36 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber Free/Libre OSS = FLOSS. I mean, people make flossing puns w/ FOSS anyway, so why not? #geowebchat 8:37 PM UTC Jan 10th

Geo SpeechGeoSpeech MT RT @mappingmashups: @GeoSpeech do you see geoweb standing alongside GIS (or in lieu of it?) #geowebchat –> alongside, never in lieu of 8:37 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @mappingmashups We never could see inside shp files. Maybe better analogy is diff btwn MS Word and WordStar’s reveal. #DatingMe #geowebchat. 8:38 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber How about LaTeX vs MS Word for a reference a few more of us will get? But now with .docx we CAN can hack the code! #geowebchat 8:42 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @hughstimson @mappingmashups AGREED. That’s why I teach tweaking python, JS & not from-scratch. Still reqs lots of CS basics. #geowebchat 8:42 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @mappingmashups Good analogy. Forgot LaTeX, which gives me nightmares. (this tweet out of context doesn’t work) #geowebchat 8:43 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @re_sieber @mappingmashups Obligatory LaTeX pun #geowebchat 8:44 PM UTC Jan 10th

Hugh Stimsonhughstimson As a practical matter I’ve always learned much faster by applying existing code to real problems than learning the fundamentals. #geowebchat 8:44 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @re_sieber, did you use Fusion Tables in the #neogeoweb course? Even w/in the Google ecosystem there are too many choices… #geowebchat 8:44 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups Just please don’t connect that pun to a FLOSS pun… RT @re_sieber: @mappingmashups Obligatory LaTeX pun #geowebchat 8:45 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism Ooh, I’d enjoy hearing more about the #neogeoweb course. #geowebchat 8:45 PM UTC Jan 10th

Mark Grahamgeoplace Ditto! RT @wilsonism: Ooh, I’d enjoy hearing more about the #neogeoweb course. #geowebchat 8:45 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @mappingmashups Fusion tables & Google SS. Found fusion tables more trouble than worth. W tools like Batchgeo, don’t need fusion #geowebchat 8:46 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism @hughstimson +1 for ‘real problems’ in teaching crit-tech skills. #geowebchat 8:46 PM UTC Jan 10th

Hugh Stimsonhughstimson And “despise” is not too strong a word for how some students feel about insistence on meta-learning before button pressing. #geowebchat 8:46 PM UTC Jan 10th

RE Sieberre_sieber @wilsonism email me @ resieber at gmail and I’ll send you the course syllabus. If you’d like, also the ppts. #geowebchat 8:47 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew Zookmattzook #geowebchat http://t.co/EeRkaJWE also looks like a way to help students learn coding 8:52 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups Despite how hard, teaching to code is a good in itself. Are we “lucky” to have to do it? @mattzook I was just abt to post that! #geowebchat 8:53 PM UTC Jan 10th

Matthew W. Wilsonwilsonism Is anyone using #geocommons to teach the #geoweb? #geowebchat 8:53 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups @wilsonism No, but I point to geocommons to say “look, you actually CAN do real choropleths online” …if you need to. #geowebchat 8:55 PM UTC Jan 10th

Hugh Stimsonhughstimson @wilsonism I’ve used #geocommons in a fairly superficial exercise on modifying styles. I’d be interested in better examples. #geowebchat 8:55 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups Clearly r things geocommons (& batchgeo, indiemapper, etc) can do better than Goog, but sometimes gotta teach most pop. tool? #geowebchat 9:00 PM UTC Jan 10th

Geo SpeechGeoSpeech @mappingmashups I’ll cringe if I have to do a choropleth online #geowebchat 9:01 PM UTC Jan 10th

Alan McConchiemappingmashups So the hour is up, thanks to everybody for the great chat! We’re on in two weeks (Jan 24) at same time. Then in Feb on 7th, 21st #geowebchat 9:02 PM UTC Jan 10th

Hugh Stimsonhughstimson @mappingmashups I suspect hacking on #Google give people a sense of agency over a tool that has long been part of their lives. #geowebchat 9:04 PM UTC Jan 10th

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Published:
Tuesday, January 10th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
Author:
Alan
Category:
geowebchat, Mapping, Networks