#geowebchat transcript, 24 January 2012

mappingmashups Jan 23, 5:36pm Next #geowebchat is tomorrow (Tuesday) 12p PT (20:00 UTC). Topic: geoweb cartography. How is it different? Where is it going? Please RT

bricker 10:33am #geowebchat We know that tech dev ~cont. w/ new devices being released cont. yet human vision remains almost constant (Kirschenbauer 2005).

bricker 10:35am #geowebchat modern #cartography deals with complex process of GI organization, access, display and use…

bricker 10:37am maps not just graphic rep of space, but dynamic portals interconnected, distributed, geo data (MacEachren and Kraak 2001) #geowebchat

Geoteq 10:41am In the future, more detailed maps will be produced by the people themselves. In a network society, companies become platforms. #geowebchat

joeeckert 10:41am look out, @bricker ‘s pregaming! #geowebchat ;)

APHumanGeog 10:43am Maps are like complex allegories or parables…the more you know, the more understanding you can gain. #geowebchat

bricker 10:44am @joeeckert #geowebchat taking the geoweb by storm! :) gotta leave early so I thought I’d start early

Geoteq 10:53am Google-World Bank deal is empowering citizen cartographers or Google is expanding market share w/ commercial interests? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 11:06am Well, check this out, #geowebchat peeps: RT @kelsosCorner: I started a wiki on GitHub for making open source maps: kelso.it/x/1el

Geoteq 11:19am Maps and apps still need to go a long way in terms of accessibility and use interaction. The ease of use is key to revolution. #geowebchat

Geoteq 11:27am A good article 4 #geowebchat today: Mashups, crowdsourcing and their impact on the mapping industry — awe.sm/5e5OJ

joegerlach 11:33am always felt a suspect link between geoweb and participatory politics. The idea of access overwrought? overcoded liberalism? #geowebchat

joeeckert 11:52am @joegerlach maybe you’re just hanging out with too many academics. i think many commercial entities could not care less. #geowebchat

APHumanGeog 11:54am “Can twitter and mapping produce smarter transit routes?” @Geocrusader80 #geowebchat fastcodesign.com/1665884/infogr…

mappingmashups 11:57am Readying for #geowebchat in a few minutes. Topic is broad: “geoweb cartography”. We already have more perspectives than I can count!

joeeckert 11:58am @APHumanGeog saw this too. I’m confused. wouldn’t a high frequency of tweets from a single user be required to map movement? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:00pm If you’re new to twitter chats, you must always include “#geowebchat“. Use the reply feature if you can. Helpful tool: TweetChat.com

mappingmashups 12:03pm Welcome everybody! That twitter mapping you guys are talking about also caught my eye. Mapping geoweb data, on the geoweb. #geowebchat

APHumanGeog 12:03pm @joeeckert Problem with point data for linear flow without identified users…make the best with the data available. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:04pm The original twitter maps from @enf are here: flickr.com/photos/walking… … includes a bit on methodology, but I want more. #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:07pm @mappingmashups Me too. I’d like to know more about the “trips,” to see if there’s really travel demand being represented. #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:08pm @APHumanGeog eh; i think there’s a point at which honesty trumps “the best we can do” if it’s posited as a means of planning. #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:08pm The point is that the act of mapping is closely related to the type of tool and ease of use it. #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:10pm @APHumanGeog don’t get me wrong, i love a pretty map; i love exploratory work. i am sad when maps lead to misrepresentation. :/ #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:10pm I think the best method and best tool is one that offers ease of use. The easiest, is used. #geowebchat

APHumanGeog 12:12pm @joeeckert It was orginally artistically designed then blog thought of city planning applications. That would change design #geowebchat

bricker 12:13pm @joeeckert @APHumanGeog misrepresentation or misinterpretation? #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:13pm And then the question remains: how to manage the entire amount of data that we have while terms easy to use tools? #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:14pm When we think of Twitter, we’re talking about people connected with some kind of gadget. This is a logic that’s not 4 everyone. #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:16pm @APHumanGeog True. We see a lot of design-based cartography these days. It does start conversations, but not sure about results. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:17pm @enf Thanks. Very interesting. We have some curious ppl over at the #geowebchat hashtag discussing your maps right now.

geoparadigm 12:18pm Just catching up on the #geowebchat thread. Discussion in progress.

Geoteq 12:19pm Many of the maps we see are not cartography. Cartography is a semantic side and related to the environment. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:20pm As cultural geographers we often people to map “journeys”, but their maps are often missing from our accounts. Bring back maps #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:20pm @rushgeo True, lot of design-based carto, but in a sense it’s simply exploratory mapping that’s made public, unlike in past. #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:21pm I think the GeoWeb and Cartography will be integrated when people can understand what they are semantically mapping. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:22pm I met a professor the other day who produced by hand 70 maps for his thesis. Incredible. #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:22pm @bricker I mean by semantics when people can relate what they are mapping to something larger. Do not just get a point, u know? #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:23pm @mappingmashups Definitely better off having it. Maybe we’re in transition & soon designers implement more carto. principles #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:23pm @Geoteq Maps that aren’t cartography? Hmm. Or are these maps more “viz” and less “communication”? See: e-education.psu.edu/files/geog486/… #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:24pm @DrHG that gives me a heart attack just thinking about it. if we were still hand-drawing maps, i’d never have become a geog’r #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:25pm @mappingmashups Also encouraging to see academic cartographers starting to implement better design and public explorations! #geowebchat

DrHG 12:25pm @Geoteq very interesting point on semantics, partic in citizen science. Collecting/mapping data but what about bigger pic. #geowebchat

APHumanGeog 12:26pm @DrHG A committee member of mine referred to hand-drawn, not to scale as “Cap’n Crunch maps.” I still use that term! #geowebchat

geoparadigm 12:26pm @joeeckert Old cartographers had to be artists; new one’s don’t have to be? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:26pm (FYI that visualization/communication cube is from MacEachern. More here: e-education.psu.edu/geog486/book/e… #geowebchat

DrHG 12:27pm @joeeckert I know what you mean. He was mapping 16th century Scotland. “professional cartography standard” .. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:28pm @geoparadigm But many people would blame GIS not Geoweb for making non-aesthetic maps possible. #geowebchat

geoparadigm 12:28pm @mappingmashups Blame technology? #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:29pm @DrHG I think we’re not just talking points. We must consider that we are a Network Society. That is, everything is connected. #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:29pm @geoparadigm not sure I’d say all that. my hands are just better with a mouse and keyboard than a pen. there’s still art to it #geowebchat

DrHG 12:29pm Quite a few cultural geographers like to collaborate with artists to produce maps. Uncomfortable #geowebchat @geoparadigm @joeeckert

DrHG 12:30pm @APHumanGeog love it! #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:30pm @geoparadigm & as mentioned earlier, some neogeo maps are very design-y, w/ artistic skill. Like @enf, the @stamen ppl, etc. #geowebchat

geoparadigm 12:31pm @DrHG @joeeckert Take GIS student created maps to the art department for critique. Can be a valuable learning experience. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:33pm As undergrad in cultural geography, Peter Jackson’s Maps of Meaning was as close to mapping as we got #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:33pm @mappingmashups This problem of representation may be solved if we have tools easier. Accessibility is the name of the game. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:33pm @geoparadigm Well, the technol of GIS disembedded cartography from prev system of drawing/repro tech and associated practices. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:34pm @geoparadigm @joeeckert I like the sound of that. Let’s take some maps to human geographers, I think some of us would benefit #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:34pm @geoparadigm Great idea! I’d love for carto students to get better sense for design, but no time to add classes to curriculum #geowebchat

geoparadigm 12:35pm @mappingmashups I agree. I have seen some beautiful web cartography from @stamen. When will joe GIS gain these abilities? #geowebchat

geoparadigm 12:37pm @rushgeo Just looking at good digital cartography and help to develop the eye for good design; design awareness goes a long way. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:38pm The Art of Mapping exhibition … See catalogue www.tagfinearts.com/exhibitions this is the sort of thing cult geogs are into #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:38pm @geoparadigm But of course you can make pretty, stamen-caliber maps w/ GIS. Some people do it. But using GIS defaults, nope. #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:38pm But what is a beautiful map on the web? A map that contains several elements are easy to interpret and that is actually useful? #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:39pm @DrHG @geoparadigm some of us still consider ourselves human geographers. ;) anyhow, i agree – design gets left by the wayside #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:40pm @DrHG Nice map art there! “Artsy” maps and “personal” maps often go hand-in-hand, tho they don’t have to. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:41pm @DrHG We talked about this in the Oct 21 chat: what’s geoweb’s role for enabling more subjective/personal/imaginative maps? #geowebchat

DrHG 12:42pm Here’s my version of map art ;-) hangs on lounge wall. #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/CenKGq0D

geoparadigm 12:42pm @Geoteq Good question. A successful map is a representation that communicates a clear purpose to an audience, right? #geowebchat

DrHG 12:43pm “@mappingmashups: what’s geoweb’s role for enabling more subjective/personal/imaginative maps? #geowebchat” any ideas?

mappingmashups 12:43pm @Geoteq Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! A beautiful thing isn’t always useful. To some that’s a def’n of art: not useful. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:44pm Speaking of @stamen and beautiful or “pretty maps”: prettymaps.stamen.com. Certainly testing limits of usefulness. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:45pm @joeeckert @geoparadigm re: human geographers point. How do you describe your subfield? #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:46pm @Geoteq some find beauty in art, some in utility. not mutually exclusive – but 1 may be more beautiful in a given context #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:46pm @geoparadigm This is the definition for me too. I believe that beauty can be in how information can be clearly disclosed. #geowebchat

sit_down_you 12:47pm @feltron‘s reports have struck a nice balance between usefulness and aesthetics. Maps —> visualization. feltron.com/ar10_07.html #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:48pm @DrHG Ideas for subjective/personal/imaginative geoweb? Well, now “anyone” can make their own maps of whatever they like… #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:49pm @DrHG …if they can express their feelings/imagination in points/lines/polygons. And are content w/ cartesian grid of mercator. #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:49pm @DrHG I draw heavily on critical GIS work concerned with social-digital interaction. description depends on who’s listening #geowebchat

GarethEnticott 12:49pm @DrHG I like maps. I like cycling. Together they make GPS art. Here’s one I call ‘the dog’ bikemap.net/route/942510 #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:50pm @geoparadigm Beauty can also b a setting that can offer a unique interpretation, subjective and comprehensive. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:50pm @DrHG …otherwise, most geoweb tools are still at disadvantage to old-fashioned cartography. #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:50pm @mappingmashups @DrHG multiple media formats is a good start. the recognition of media as geographic even w/o lat/long is a next #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:51pm @mappingmashups when people geotag emotional stories or multimedia, we get to affective dimension despite point/line/polys #geowebchat

geoparadigm 12:51pm I like things that work well and look good. Function and aesthetics together = usability win. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:52pm @sit_down_you Definitely the infovis/datavis field is booming, & influencing neogeographers. Paleogeographers not so much. #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:52pm @DrHG @mappingmashups er…next step. i think qualgis becomes increasingly important as well w/big data sources #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:54pm @rushgeo Yes, more passive or “frictionless” sharing like geotagging means we can try mapping others’ subjective cartographies. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:54pm @rushgeo @mappingmashups got a good example/link for emotional geotagging. I suppose facebook pics, statuses #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:54pm @rushgeo …for better or worse. #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:54pm @joeeckert True. The context can define beauty. Good point. #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:55pm @mappingmashups @DrHG It reminds me of the following image: awe.sm/5e5dy #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:56pm @GarethEnticott @DrHG Yes, GPS art is fascinating, simultaneously personal and impersonal. Have you seen the work by @jwoodx? #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:57pm @DrHG Twitter data is quick & easy, but not deep. Oral histories are tougher, but deeper. #geowebchat

geoparadigm 12:58pm @DrHG Galvanic skin sensors can capture emotion. See Nold’s San Fran Emotion Map bit.ly/kHpYXk #geowebchat

DrHG 12:58pm @rushgeo nice got any examples of this work? #geowebchat

joeeckert 12:59pm @DrHG geolocated tweets. flickr. meetup (depending on type of meetup). also depends on how specific of a geotag you need #geowebchat

DrHG 1:00pm @geoparadigm oh wow. Possibilities are fascinating. #geowebchat

joeeckert 1:00pm @DrHG also sf.curbed.com/archives/2007/… for instance. there’s one of NY too. #geowebchat

rushgeo 1:01pm @DrHG Historic Filipinotown collection on Hypercities.com is pretty impressive. Broadcastr.com has potential, too. #geowebchat

Geoteq 1:02pm I believe that the definition of Cartography should change. Represent big data and in real-time will create dif kinds of viz #geowebchat

joeeckert 1:02pm @geoparadigm hahaha, as we all rush for the SF emotion map! it works, we swear! then again, it’s only one person/example. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:03pm Well, thank you all for the great chat. I hope we were blowing some minds at the end there… #geowebchat

DrHG 1:04pm Argh…phone battery is dying….argh…. Will be back #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:04pm @mappingmashups Crap, missed #geowebchat. Transcript coming?

mappingmashups 1:05pm Next chats will be at the same time, on Feb 7, Feb 21, and Mar 6. Topic suggestions and guest hosts are always welcome. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:05pm Sometime soon I’ll post today’s transcript along with the others at mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ #geowebchat

DrHG 1:07pm Thanks to everyone who participated … I thoroughly enjoyed this week’s #geowebchat.

joeeckert 1:07pm @AndrewShears you’re fired. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:07pm Special thanks to the new participants this week! #geowebchat

rushgeo 1:08pm Long time lurker, first time participant. Woo! #geowebchat

Geoteq 1:08pm Gr8 chat. It’s always good to interact with ppl w/ similar ideas. My apologies 4 my English. I’m a Brazilian guy ’till learning #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:10pm @Geoteq Your english was impeccable, glad to have you! #geowebchat

GarethEnticott 1:11pm @mappingmashups @DrHG No but I like @oobr‘s maps of boris bike usage around London oliverobrien.co.uk guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/… #geowebchat

Geoteq 1:13pm @mappingmashups Thank you, nice to meet you. It was a pleasure to talk with every1. See you next #geowebchat. Cheers Everyone

mappingmashups 1:14pm Apropos of #geowebchat RT @cartogeek: “A One-Man Mapquest” about cartographer Dave Imus and his award winning #map bit.ly/wvxZOt

joeeckert 1:15pm thanks y’all! good times. #geowebchat

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