#geowebchat transcript, 7 February 2012


mappingmashups Feb 06, 12:06pm Next #geowebchat: (How) does our relationship with the Geoweb influence our relationship with place? Tues 12 pm PST, 20:00 UTC. Pls RT!

AndrewShears Feb 06, 5:12pm @mappingmashups @Geoteq @APHumanGeog I’m really looking forward to #geowebchat. Ties right into my #aag2012 paper. meridian.aag.org/callforpapers/…

Geoteq 11:48am 4 those who will attend the #geowebchat, a good article which contextualizes the discus is: Is GPS All in Our Heads? – awe.sm/5eywO

mappingmashups 11:56am Uh oh, no wifi until after 4pm? #geowebchat we might have a problem. (@ Elysian Coffee) 4sq.com/znZcPY

mappingmashups 11:59am #geowebchat begins in a few secs: how does the geoweb affect our sense of place. Warning: I’m having wifi issues “IRL”, so dive in w/out me

Geoteq 12:05pm @mappingmashups Alan, you don’t have a smartphone that can do tethering? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:07pm @Geoteq having a MyWi tethering fail at the moment… :( #geowebchat

mhaklay 12:11pm @mappingmashups isn’t the issue of sense of place at the core of Zook/Graham DigiPlace? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:12pm #geowebchat tweeting as I walk down the street. Apropos, I guess. Hold on.

roaming_roman77 12:13pm @mappingmashups Like Derek Gregory’s “traveling” geography! It’s not just a metaphor… #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:15pm @mappingmashups Interesting, It’s an unusual situation that fits the theme of the chat. Are you entering the theme? LOL #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:16pm And I joined up with @bricker on the street, but she’s no longer a smartphone cyborg, so we still have to find wifi. Searching. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:17pm How does geoweb affect our sense of place? @EmilyRFekete and I have (briefly) looked at @foursquare and performativity #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:17pm @mhaklay I’d say so. They cover the algorithm’s role well, but I keep thinking of VGI’s role (of course influenced by algorithm) #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:18pm One of our main arguments is that checking into @foursquare is, like so much of social media, a performance. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:18pm I swear Whole Foods had wifi, but apparently no. Next try: Blenz. I feel like I should live stream this for you all. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:18pm Does anyone check into embarrassing places on @foursquare? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:19pm @Geoteq yes, it’s almost like I planned this. Almost. #geowebchat

mhaklay 12:19pm @mappingmashups @bricker – so you need to give us some sense of place from both of you! #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:20pm @AndrewShears Always surprised at mundane checkins like gas stations. But, it’s a game where people make up their own rules. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:20pm @rushgeo To me, the most mundane @foursquare checkins (like gas stations, hair salons, Walmart) are what makes it interesting! #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:21pm Not only am I struggling with a mix of biological/silicon memory as I seek wifi, but we also have to find food to fuel @bricker #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:22pm @rushgeo Being an early adopter of @foursquare I originally started checking in as an auto-geo-biographical project of sorts. #geowebchat

EmilyRFekete 12:22pm @AndrewShears as well as @foursquare and consumerism. #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:22pm @AndrewShears especially for data harvesters like myself! Instant time-geography dataset. (wonder what IRB would think?) #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:22pm #geowebchat RT @zhicks89: @AndrewShears I checked into a strip club once in Seattle on @foursquare. That counts as embarrassing.

roaming_roman77 12:23pm I confess I’m somewhat of a luddite, but I’m not all that sure what @foursquare is-do you need a certain brand of phone for it? #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:23pm @EmilyRFekete The consumer aspect of @foursquare is fascinating and evolving. Specials and such… I have one for my basement! #geowebchat

AngharadStone 12:23pm @AndrewShears unlike other social media where you can be ‘tagged’ by others, you can’t be ‘checked-in’ by other in @foursquare #geowebchat

bricker 12:24pm #geowebchat and we are connected!

AndrewShears 12:24pm @AngharadStone This is true… which makes it easier to cultivate your own performance & geo-image w @foursquare checkins #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:24pm Very useful tool to track #geowebchat: tweetchat.com #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:25pm @AngharadStone Aren’t some of Facebook’s biggest faux pas moments when it allows others to control your profile? #geowebchat #privacy

DrHG 12:25pm @roaming_roman77 @foursquare foursquare.com #geowebchat … short video

AngharadStone 12:26pm @AndrewShears wow – I love the idea of “cultivating my own GEO-image” #geowebchat

DrHG 12:26pm @AndrewShears @rushgeo @foursquare Although on Facebook when people check-in to ‘bed’ … hmmm for some reason that annoys me. #geowebchat

EmilyRFekete 12:26pm @AndrewShears yes! Also I’m pretty sure I just had a dissertation epiphany and going to write about virtual consumerism and 4sq #geowebchat

bricker 12:27pm @mhaklay @mappingmashups #geowebchat Zook/Graham DigiPlace, I understand that to be more on the digi side of rather than place side

AndrewShears 12:27pm @AngharadStone That’s a brainwave I’ve been trying to put into words lately, the idea of a virtual-digital-geo-autobiography #geowebchat

DrHG 12:28pm So how does “checking-in” affect our senses of place? Makes us more conscious of being in place? #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 12:28pm As much as I enjoy geotagging, isn’t there an element of danger in revealing your constant location? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:28pm @bricker DigiPlace is about place, too, it’s just that it was written before the VGI explosion. We as users shape it more now #geowebchat

DonColley3 12:29pm @AndrewShears @foursquare @EmilyRFekete The problem with this argument is that it ignores that everything is a performance. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:29pm @DrHG Well, who bothers checking in for an appointment with the proctologist? #geowebchat (forgot the hash)

AngharadStone 12:29pm @AndrewShears which can go hand-in-hand with what you add in OSM to those locations (?) #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:30pm But one thing is Geoweb another thing is Geolocation. Foursquare is basically Geolocation, a technique of location. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:31pm @Dragons8mycat It it terribly much different than having a name/address in a phone book? #geowebchat

roaming_roman77 12:31pm @DrHG @foursquare Thanks for the video link! That clears up the mystery – it’s definitely cooler than fb’s “check-in” thing #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:31pm @Dragons8mycat With the web, I’m a visible enough person (even at my lame stature) that I can be found if someone wants. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:32pm @AndrewShears just had to google that. Eeek. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:32pm As an aside, those of you @foursquare fans should try out #4sqchat sometime… #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:33pm @AngharadStone It certainly could! I admittedly haven’t done much with #OSM but have worked with geolocated photos & panos #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:33pm @DrHG For me, only sometimes: I didn’t look up and see Banksy graffiti here until I noticed the 4sq tip goo.gl/ZXyMa #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:34pm @rushgeo @DrHG What about social media #geoweb tips and reviews? Anyone use those (and hence influence their own decisions)? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:34pm @Dragons8mycat @bricker & I just discussing offline: who are the imagined threats? Someone who targets you individually… #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:35pm @Dragons8mycat @bricker …or someone who targets tons of 4sq users via some possible data leak? #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 12:35pm @AndrewShears There’s a difference between providing static tags and real time tags…UK gov are now reconsidering stalking laws #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:36pm @AndrewShears I’ve used Yelp & 4sq while out and about to find places, I’m just usually disappointed with effectiveness #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:37pm @AndrewShears Mobile services getting better though. And when I have more time to choose at real computer, reviews rule the day. #geowebchat

bricker 12:39pm @rushgeo @AndrewShears Have the reviews you have read while out and about changed your perception of that place? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:39pm So does anybody cheat at 4sq? Me: guilty #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:39pm @mappingmashups @Dragons8mycat @bricker So you’re more worried about use of location data in aggregate than for an individual? #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:40pm @bricker @rushgeo Oh sure, I’ve avoided restaurants and such because of crummy reviews and snarky tips. #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 12:41pm @mappingmashups Geolocation is very easy to crack, especially with the vunerability of the HTC and Nokias #geowebCHAT

AngharadStone 12:41pm @mappingmashups what do you mean by ‘cheat’? #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:41pm @bricker For me, depends on the number of other options. Unknown pizza place w/ bad review: go to one of dozens of others. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:41pm @mappingmashups I think a question of what constitutes cheating is almost as interesting as whether folks check-in at all. #geowebchat

EmilyRFekete 12:41pm @mappingmashups @Dragons8mycat @bricker the 4sq app square-anoia allows you to see crimes committed near your recent check ins #geowebchat

EmilyRFekete 12:41pm @mappingmashups @Dragons8mycat @bricker sort of like tracking… But maybe more positive? #geowebchat

DrHG 12:42pm @mappingmashups how does cheating on 4sq work? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:42pm @AndrewShears In aggregate yes, but also the mass violation of privacy for indivs. Like the mass leaks of AOL’s search logs.. #geowebchat

mhaklay 12:42pm @AndrewShears @rushgeo @DrHG I used TripAdvisor to select between restaurants – but it didn’t influenced sense of place #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:43pm @AngharadStone I mean cheat by checking in where you aren’t… #geowebchat

Geoteq 12:43pm The perception of the place is still a cognitive experience and immersive. Devices only help us but our GPS is in the mind. #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 12:43pm Geolocation is so easy to obtain through any device with GPS or wifi, that our nearby Outlet tracks its customers movements #geowebCHAT

Dragons8mycat 12:44pm whereismydata.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/gun… #geowebCHAT

rushgeo 12:44pm @AngharadStone “cheating” interesting since 4sq has so few rules. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:44pm Like, walk down the street, check in at every place you walk past. Eventually 4sq stops awarding points… #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:44pm @mappingmashups @AngharadStone But then what constitutes being in a place? Driving by? Walking in? Seeing the place? Walking by? #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:45pm Or maybe the definition of being in a “place” is more sinister, maybe you have to buy something? #geowebchat

AngharadStone 12:45pm @mappingmashups for the purposes of what? looking cool to followers or for local vouchers? #geowebchat

bricker 12:45pm @mhaklay @AndrewShears @rushgeo @DrHG #geowebchat so do you only use LBS and VGI in places you are unfamiliar?

rushgeo 12:45pm @AndrewShears May depend on user intent. If checks-in to build personal identity, probably doesn’t feel like they’re cheating. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:46pm While taking Amtrak across the United States for AAG2011, I checked into every station we stopped but I didn’t enter. Cheating? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:46pm @AngharadStone I never aim for vouchers… I just want to look cool, try to confuse the system. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:47pm @mappingmashups @AngharadStone Sometimes I’ll check into a place specifically to make my social network wonder wtf is going on. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:47pm Teleporting across the border for #geowebchat (@ Seattle’s Best Coffee) 4sq.com/w0a1jH

AndrewShears 12:48pm #geowebchat during office hours. (@ UWFox GIS Lab) 4sq.com/yNXbhE

mappingmashups 12:48pm To quote 4sq “Your phone thinks you’re a little far from Seattle’s Best Coffee, so no points or badges for this checkin. Sorry!” #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:48pm @mappingmashups Now that’s kinda fun…. #geowebchat

mhaklay 12:49pm @bricker @AndrewShears @rushgeo @DrHG #geowebchat – personally, yes. And I also like to get lost in new places povesham.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/the…

mappingmashups 12:49pm Teleporting back. #geowebchat (@ Blenz Coffee) 4sq.com/wKPZ7t

AngharadStone 12:49pm @AndrewShears @mappingmashups but what about none geo-driven people? what do they get out of it? #geowebchat

williamaubin 12:49pm #geowebchat #lunchhour (@ Urban Mapping) 4sq.com/xBISAY

Dragons8mycat 12:50pm Never used 4sq, but surely this could be cheated by simple modification of the dX,dY parameters? #geowebCHAT

DrHG 12:50pm Yi-Fu Tuan space/place: What begins as undifferentiated space becomes place as we get to know it better and endow it with value. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:50pm I also feel like noise or “chaff” is one of the few ways left for us to maintain a sense of privacy. Not perfect, but… #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:50pm @AngharadStone @mappingmashups I think even non-geographers have a sense of geo-autobiography of sorts. #geowebchat

bricker 12:50pm @AndrewShears #geowebchat can you please provide the most obscure example? Should be a new LBGame! Where does Andrew say he is but insn’t

rushgeo 12:50pm @bricker For advice, yes. Proportionally, use 4sq f/ claiming ownership of places I consider myself expert (local donut shop…) #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:52pm @AngharadStone @mappingmashups I mean, even many non-geographers track number of states (or even counties) visited. #geowebchat

DrHG 12:53pm @AndrewShears @mappingmashups @AngharadStone I’ve just installed foursquare using the “explore” function. Reviews are dated. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:53pm @bricker I love checking into random people’s apartments (and leaving tips) when I’m visiting friends nearby. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:54pm Did you guys catch @wilsonism’s #AAG2011 talk theorizing foursquare? #geowebchat

DrHG 12:54pm @bricker *whispers* what’s LBG? #geowebchat

roaming_roman77 12:54pm @EmilyRFekete @DonColley3 @AndrewShears Seems like there’s an aspect of asserting individuality/identity via where you check-in #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 12:55pm @DrHG *whisper* Its not just you…what is LBG? #geowebCHAT

AndrewShears 12:56pm I believe it’s “Location Based Game” RT @DrHG: @bricker *whispers* what’s LBG? #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:56pm @AndrewShears goo.gl/wxt8L #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:57pm Of course they don’t want you to fake checking in. How else will they use your data? RT @rushgeo: goo.gl/wxt8L #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:57pm “Foursquare house rules”. Social pressure to maintain order! RT @rushgeo: @AndrewShears goo.gl/wxt8L #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:58pm @rushgeo Like Facebook’s anti-fake person rules. They don’t want bunch of accounts they can’t sell show ads to & sell data from. #geowebchat

AngharadStone 12:58pm @bricker @DrHG Next level up of Geo-caching? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:58pm I must say, I feel no guilt messing w/ 4sq, but I do feel more _obligation_ to mess with something like klout. #occupyklout #geowebchat

rushgeo 12:59pm @mappingmashups The rules are kind of laughable, though. Just like driving exam everyone forgets after getting license. #geowebchat

DrHG 1:00pm I am really disappointed about the uptake of foursquare in my current location. Yes, I know there is a cinema round the corner #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:00pm @roaming_roman77 @EmilyRFekete @DonColley3 Hmmmm… What is the audience for Foursquare (or Facebook for that matter)? #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:00pm Ok, so how what benefit do i gain on 4sq over geotagging or gps? It just seems like a way to let others invade your privacy #geowebCHAT

mappingmashups 1:01pm I would like to come up with “coded” checkins so when I check in to Nail Bar X my friends know it really means I’m at home, etc. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:01pm @mappingmashups I have a number of friends who do that. Check into a nearby park when they’re home, etc. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:01pm @Dragons8mycat The benefit is that it’s social. And if you trust their security, it means only ppl you approve can see your loc. #geowebchat

wilsonism 1:03pm #geowebchat So sorry I missed the bulk of this chat. I am interested in ways to conceptualize/actualize resistance around check-ins. #4sq

mappingmashups 1:04pm @DrHG I do find that LBS uptake varies by location. For ex, Vancouver is a Yelp town… harder to win Duke than Mayor on 4sq #geowebchat

roaming_roman77 1:04pm @AndrewShears @EmilyRFekete @DonColley3 With 4sq, I’m only guessing it’s the people you add to network, as w/ F.B. “friends”..? #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:04pm @mappingmashups So more like geotagged game than social network with location? You guys seem so passionate about it #geowebCHAT

williamaubin 1:04pm @Dragons8mycat By signing up for 4sq, or Facebook, or Twitter, you shouldn’t be surprised that someone knows what you’re doing. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:04pm @wilsonism You mean like messing with the data/algorithms like #OccupyKlout? #geowebchat

williamaubin 1:05pm @Dragons8mycat They’re not invading privacy any more than is a stranger you keep seeing around town. Seems you’re broadcasting. #geowebchat

rushgeo 1:05pm @AndrewShears @wilsonism or people who don’t let their friends check them into places on facebook? #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:06pm @williamaubin There is a huge difference between letting people know what you’re doing and where you are in real time #geowebCHAT

AndrewShears 1:07pm @rushgeo @wilsonism See, I don’t allow that, feels weird. Prob goes back to self-curation of geolocation data being more okay. #geowebchat

wilsonism 1:08pm #geowebchat @AndrewShears @rushgeo Or how to use check-ins to influence practices that challenge a more consumer-oriented LBS.

williamaubin 1:08pm @Dragons8mycat by you, i mean we. We take responsibility for our own online broadcasting. Or we should be. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:08pm @Dragons8mycat The active checkins of 4sq are a way to experiment & think through our passive activity via cell logs, etc… #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:09pm @Dragons8mycat To me, @foursquare would be WAY MORE invasive if it did the checking-in for me. #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:09pm @williamaubin This is true, at least with this 4sq you actively aknowledge you are transmitting #geowebCHAT

AndrewShears 1:09pm @Dragons8mycat I also know some people who only check-in on @foursquare when they are leaving a place. #geowebchat

geoparadigm 1:10pm Is social network peer pressure enough to self enforce social media behavior ethics? #4sq #ethics #checkin #geowebchat

DrHG 1:10pm Dear #geowebchat mates, Could you forward me links to your top ten papers for the newbie? I’m v keen to be a bit more informed for next time

rushgeo 1:10pm @AndrewShears Every time I’ve thought about a system to make checkins easier (RFID?), I decide I wouldn’t be comfortable with it #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:10pm @geoparadigm Of course! Check into a porno store on Facebook/Foursquare if you know your spinster gossiper aunt was watching? #geowebchat

williamaubin 1:11pm @AndrewShears I think @Square did that? if you had the app it could open a tab if you walked through a merchant’s area #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:13pm @wilsonism @rushgeo The old (newish?) mantra: If it’s free, then you are the product. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:14pm @williamaubin That crosses the invisible line. Tech isn’t supposed to know where we are until we tell it to know where we are. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:15pm Crap, got a meeting. Thanks for a great #geowebchat y’all!

mappingmashups 1:17pm @AndrewShears The tech has to know for all these lovely services to work! To receive calls, even. It just shouldn’t share…#geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:17pm @AndrewShears Predictive mapping….its what the next big thing is…again #geowebCHAT

Dragons8mycat 1:17pm @AndrewShears Laters Andrew #geowebCHAT

mappingmashups 1:17pm @AndrewShears Thanks for participating! Seeya around augmented space… #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:19pm I’m just frustrated my 3GS won’t do location-based reminders. Not even w/ jailbreak. If it knows my loc, I want more benefits. #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:19pm Apologies for crashing your #geowebchat, is it normally 4q centric? #geowebCHAT

Geoteq 1:20pm So, the perception of space using Geolocation devs also means social perception? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:20pm Anyhow, we’ve gone way over time. Apologies for my nomadism at the start. This sure was a fun chat, thanks to everybody! #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:21pm Next chat is same time in two weeks: Feb 21. I will be in NYC for #AAG2012. Let me know if anyone wants to tweetup and do #geowebchat F2F.

Dragons8mycat 1:21pm @Geoteq Nail on the head from what I can see….its no longer about putting yourself on the map its about making others aware #geowebCHAT

Geoteq 1:22pm Thanks everyone. Cheers from Brazil =) #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:22pm Also, looking for topics for the next #geowebchat, as always. Thanks to @bricker for suggesting today’s theme!

rushgeo 1:22pm @mappingmashups I’d love a tweetup, but won’t be there until Friday. Maybe something in conjunction with Iron Sheep? #geowebchat

bricker 1:23pm #geowebchat Its been fun!

mappingmashups 1:23pm @rushgeo Yeah, certainly don’t want to preclude any other tweetups. And I will be at #IronSheep for sure. #AAG2012 #geowebchat

bricker 1:24pm @Dragons8mycat no, it is not normally this 4sq centric #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:26pm @bricker @Dragons8mycat Yeah, we have a range of topics. All the previous chats are archived here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:26pm @bricker Cool, I’ll make sure I’m here then. Its good to meet some geominde people on the same plane for once :) #geowebCHAT

williamaubin 1:26pm @Dragons8mycat I like that, but i still think you have a choice. Aren’t there private checkins? User decides. Thanks, #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:27pm Expect the transcript for today posted online in a day or two. #geowebchat

Dragons8mycat 1:29pm @mappingmashups @bricker @williamaubin Thanks for letting me join in. Look forward to chatting to you all soon. #geowebCHAT

mhaklay 1:47pm @DrHG the list from the participatory geoweb project rose.geog.mcgill.ca/geoide/node/248 seems to be a useful starting point for #geowebchat but >10 :(

samkinsley 2:15pm .@drhg You should defo checkout @wilsonism ‘s awesome critical GIS bibliography: bit.ly/xLzqaz #geowebchat

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