#geowebchat transcript, 20 March 2012


mappingmashups Mar 19, 2:27pm Next #geowebchat: Hackathons, mapping parties, #sheepcamp & more: the embodied ways the Geoweb gets made. Join us Tuesday 12pm PDT. Pls RT!

mappingmashups 8:40am Reminder: #geowebchat today 12p PDT, 3p EDT, 7p UTC. The embodied production of the geoweb: hackathons, mapping parties, drones, etc. Pls RT

geographiliac 10:43am looking forward to the #geowebchat at 3pm EST today (#sheepcamp, hackathons, maps, etc). Thanks @mappingmashups for organizing!

alogicalfallacy 11:49am @mappingmashups Ummm. what was the nice chat twitter ui you suggested last #geowebchat. I’m on a different computer without my bookmarks. :)

mappingmashups 11:57am @alogicalfallacy The slick web UI for following twitter chats is tweetchat.com: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:01pm Welcome everybody to #geowebchat! Today’s topic: the embodied ways that the Geoweb gets made. Interpret this as broadly as you wish.

mappingmashups 12:02pm For example, we could continue talking debriefing the #IronSheep event and talk about the proposed #SheepCamp… #geowebchat

ajturner 12:02pm @mappingmashups peeking into the sausage factory? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:03pm We could compare how the geoweb is produced in academia, in corporate settings, & in amateur neogeographer hackathons, etc… #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:03pm @ajturner it ain’t pretty inside that factory… #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:04pm Sounds like Bruno Latour: the practice of science #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:04pm @ajturner And there are lots of overlapping factories at work, to stretch the metaphor. #geowebchat

ajturner 12:05pm @mappingmashups Art create ideas, Academia write citable research, hackathons demo concepts, corporations build products #geowebchat

alogicalfallacy 12:06pm @ajturner to take you at face value, what then is the significance of the geoweb in terms of creating new “moments” broadly? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:07pm @ajturner Those roles sound neat and tidy! #geowebchat

wilsonism 12:07pm @ajturner Dibbs on ‘ideas’. #geowebchat

USGSTNMRes 12:07pm Our modest experiment at USGS shows that volunteered info changes mapping practices and vice versa. Stay tuned #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:08pm all instances of geoweb have value, but this value isn’t equally respected depending where you are coming from… #geowebchat

ajturner 12:08pm @alogicalfallacy I’m not sure I understand. the ‘geoweb’ doesn’t create. isn’t it a creation? what is the system boundary? #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:09pm @ajturner @mappingmashups are there any communication problems b/w those factories? Should they be communicating? #geowebchat

alogicalfallacy 12:09pm @ajturner 140 chars makes it hard. Roughly if art creates new ideas, and cartography is at least aesthetically influenced as art #geowebchat

alogicalfallacy 12:09pm @ajturner Then what role does the geoweb play in terms of presenting or creating new experiences (ala art)… sorry if confusing #geowebchat

JeremyCrampton 12:11pm I tend to see historically. The geoweb is our current instance of understanding the world geographically #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:11pm RT @ajturner: are coherency gaps. diff’t venues, diff’t languages, diff’t intents. New, Unique, Cool, Profitable, respectively #geowebchat

USGSTNMRes 12:11pm Does instantaneous make a difference to the where? Just received from @sophiabliu notice of Mexico earthquake #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:13pm @ajturner @alogicalfallacy We create GIScience; GIScience has power of its own, eg, to create job openings, displ. restraints #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:14pm @USGSTNMRes Is the instantaneous an example of geoweb making itself, via algorithms, data feeds…? Stuff happens w/out human? #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:14pm How do we make Geoweb; how does it make us? #geowebchat

ajturner 12:14pm @re_sieber do you create GIScience, or or do you discover it? develop methodologies for discover? #geowebchat

wilsonism 12:15pm @re_sieber @ajturner I wonder if ‘we’ve’ already lost the keys to GISc. #geowebchat

alogicalfallacy 12:15pm @ajturner @re_sieber Doesn’t it depend on how you approach it – either as art, science, or tool… re: GISscience #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:16pm @wilsonism @re_sieber @ajturner Did somebody else find the keys, or does nobody have them? #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:16pm @ajturner it is often in academic interest to create GIScience! Geoweb much more of a wild west that academics don’t own (yet). #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:17pm @ajturner You definitely create it then it makes you eg, via purity tests: proper GIScientists don’t code or make; they theorize #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:18pm @re_sieber @ajturner Not saying I like. I’d rather code, play #geowebchat

ajturner 12:18pm @re_sieber I’ve met many a GIScientist that is *trying* to create. Questionable endeavor #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:18pm @peterajohnson @ajturner Could turn this back to embodiment Q: does GISci require big hardware & labs that geoweb doesn’t? #geowebchat

ajturner 12:19pm @peterajohnson you speak of “ownership”? #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:19pm @peterajohnson Like non CS, engineering academics will ever own the geoweb #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:19pm @re_sieber but coding doesn’t pay the bills, given your current occupation… #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:20pm @re_sieber @ajturner Hmm… or maybe it’s the “theory only” stance of proper GISci that is disembodied. #geowebchat

alogicalfallacy 12:20pm Can I ask “create what?” here. Lots of GIScientists “create”, but do we mean specifically interactive or web utilities? curious. #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:21pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson @ajturner does “geoweb” dumb down content b/c of lack of advanced geospatial capabilities? #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:21pm @ajturner I mean in an academic territory sense, not in an actually providing a useful service way…;) #geowebchat

ajturner 12:21pm @mappingmashups I liked your original question: how much of the geoweb actually occurs in ‘meatspace’ #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:22pm What are we talking ab creating here? The platform, the app, the content? A process? An idea? A well paid job? An IPO? #geowebchat

ajturner 12:23pm @peterajohnson then let’s say a solid academic purview of the geoweb. seems that academics are trying to build and are too slow #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:23pm @alogicalfallacy So we’re asking the same question #geowebchat

USGSTNMRes 12:23pm @mappingmashups stuff happens both with and without us. lesson of Zook & Graham digiplace #geowebchat

alogicalfallacy 12:24pm @re_sieber Exactly. What’s being “created” goes a long way in determining the “who” as well as the degree of embodiment entailed #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:24pm @kg_geomapper but you can visualize the results of advanced analysis more elegantly with geoweb (often). and enable contribution #geowebchat

ajturner 12:24pm @kg_geomapper the geoweb makes information approachable. doesn’t have to be “dumb”. Emergent Interfaces #geowebchat

USGSTNMRes 12:25pm @ajturner I like Tobler’s new 2nd law! spking of time, Geoweb has foregrounded this old concern into new urgency for GIScience #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:26pm @ajturner Maybe academics need diff style of meatspace teaching for geoweb? Are GIS-style labs relevant? Is #IronSheep more apt? #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:26pm @ajturner yes – let private sector push development and academics theorize over the implications. Essentially STS. #geowebchat

CraigMDalton 12:26pm #geowebchat that meatspace can make a huge difference: who owns/runs the servers and related terms of services.

re_sieber 12:27pm @alogicalfallacy Ironic, that we’re talking ab disembodied practice when the thing is likely ’1′s and ’0′s. #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:27pm @mappingmashups I would love to test this. GIS curriculum is already packed, but we do students a disservice to leave geoweb out #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:28pm @CraigMDalton In addition to servers etc, for geoweb in particular who runs the sensors? An opening for DIY drones & balloons. #geowebchat

ajturner 12:29pm @peterajohnson @mappingmashups fortunately students are using geoweb on their own. but should teach tools to analyze and utilize #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:29pm @peterajohnson Geoweb becomes non-created in the current Intro GIS curriculum #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:29pm MT @peterajohnson: @mappingmashups GIS curriculum is already packed, but we do students a disservice to leave geoweb out #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:30pm @peterajohnson agreed. #geowebchat

ajturner 12:31pm @CraigMDalton there are a lot of sandboxes. GeoCommons et al. AppEngine, local coding #geowebchat

wilsonism 12:31pm We’re teaching ‘the geoweb’ at the 100-level with a class called Digital Mapping. We use GeoCommons, @ajturner #geowebchat #digimap

mattdance 12:31pm But, students do not need geographers to learn the #geoweb. Self taught hackers, in comp sci, as part of start-up culture. #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:31pm @CraigMDalton I like the idea of a sandbox. sounds like a grt name for a fun open source-ish geoweb site for learning stuff #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:32pm @re_sieber plus there is plenty of opportunity to allow creation in classroom – maybe not in Intro, but project courses, etc. #geowebchat

ajturner 12:32pm @mattdance but imagine if you paired a techie geographer & map minded cs student. would be awesome #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:33pm @mattdance sure, but can’t hurt to have formalized instruction. Could bring a lot of students in who would never code otherwise #geowebchat

mattdance 12:34pm Geography at UofA is weakest at #geoweb. #DH and compsci is where the cool action is. #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:35pm @peterajohnson @mattdance Maybe not many. My Geoweb course, which taught JS & Python only had 16 students #geowebchat

ajturner 12:35pm @kg_geomapper @CraigMDalton what about a GeoAcademy – ala CodeAcademy? #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:36pm @ajturner @kg_geomapper @CraigMDalton I’m first in line to beta test #geowebchat

mattdance 12:36pm @peterajohnson Yes agreed, but we are not the only game in town. Collaboration is more important! And understanding data #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:36pm @re_sieber first year offering it though…give it time. You need to make it a mandatory course for GISci option…oh the irony! #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:37pm @kg_geomapper @CraigMDalton If you like sandbox as a name, how about something kinda geo pun like “landbox”? Run with it! #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:37pm @re_sieber you need to be first in line to write the lessons! #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:39pm @ajturner @CraigMDalton @re_sieber that’s *exactly* what I was thinking! (Code Academy) #geowebchat

CraigMDalton 12:39pm @peterajohnson @re_sieber #geowebchat would developing an initial curriculum be a good topic for sheepcamp?

re_sieber 12:39pm @peterajohnson I’m in. It’s the future of GIScience (GIScience 2.0) #geowebchat

geographiliac 12:40pm @CraigMDalton, we are looking for suggestions for #sheepcamp(hi everybody!) #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:41pm Are we saying that ideal teams have 3 areas of expertise: some geo ppl, some CS ppl, & maybe some who are familiar w/ the data? #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:41pm @CraigMDalton sounds like a good idea – ambitious! #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:41pm @CraigMDalton @peterajohnson @re_sieber @geographiliac I think developing a curriculum at #sheepcamp is an excellent idea #geowebchat

geographiliac 12:42pm if you want to help us with adding your ideas to #sheepcamp, please fill out: tinyurl.com/sheepcampinter… #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:42pm @CraigMDalton @peterajohnson I’m happy to share my course material. But it’s lots of browser/server/cloud side code instruction #geowebchat

jharpster 12:42pm Sweet. Are we talking about Paleo vs Neogeography again? #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:42pm Seems like #geowebchat is a bit outside my depth today (as most things are)…. guess I’ll just go back to making some crappy maps? ;-)

mappingmashups 12:42pm @jharpster Always. #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:44pm @mappingmashups @AndrewShears Are we neglecting the role of the map maker in making the geoweb? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:45pm @AndrewShears You’re exactly who we should engage: how do we get like-minded ppl with GIS skills to feel comfy doing geoweb? #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:45pm A curriculum for geoweb would be a great resource and hopefully something that could be commented/updated wiki-style #sheepcamp #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:46pm RT @AndrewShears: Perhaps the “art” in cARTography. So many web maps (& sadly, therefore mashups thereof) are just kinda crappy. #geowebchat

wilsonism 12:46pm +1 RT @peterajohnson: A curriculum for geoweb would be a great resource #sheepcamp #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:46pm RT @ajturner: @re_sieber ‘map maker’ is generic. That’s like “someone that draws”. Cartographer, Data Analyst, Programmer, etc? #geowebchat

peterajohnson 12:47pm @mappingmashups who cares about comfy, point is to step outside what you’ve always done and learn new skills #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:48pm @mappingmashups For me, it would be nice to engage the geoweb without having to learn yet another f*cking coding language. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:48pm Does anybody use stuff like Wikiversity for things like this? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:50pm Oh, and can we make drones as part of the curriculum? Can we can we can we? #geowebchat

ajturner 12:50pm @AndrewShears @mappingmashups what programming languages/interfaces do you use now? #geowebchat

CraigMDalton 12:51pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat Drones as in sensors or drones as in bots?

geographiliac 12:51pm @mappingmashups ask @JeremyCrampton about those drones :) #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:51pm @mappingmashups Given wired.com/threatlevel/20… maybe we should make geosurveillance, inc drones, part of the curriculum #geowebchat

JeremyCrampton 12:51pm We’ll have a drone here shortly! @mappingmashups #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:52pm @AndrewShears I feel similarly, but I am trying my best. Stick around. #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:53pm @peterajohnson Disagree. I make decent maps + they’re my artistic outlet. If 100+ hrs effort = coding fluency, not sure abt ROI. #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:53pm maybe the discomfort b/w GIScience and Geoweb is not completely understanding each other’s “languages” – lots of jargon #geowebchat

mattzook 12:54pm #geowebchat and once again I show up an hour late…..damn

mappingmashups 12:54pm @CraigMDalton Drones as in bots with sensors. UAVs. #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 12:54pm not to mention feeling completely overwhelmed by all of the things I feel I need to know b/w the two. feels impossible #geowebchat

wilsonism 12:54pm #geowebchat

AndrewShears 12:54pm @ajturner @mappingmashups I’ve got HTML 5, CSS, PHP, and used to do some VBA and C++ (but that’s long ago enough that it’s gone) #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:54pm @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups Sensors (stationary and mobile) should be in curric. What ab harvesting realtime data? #geowebchat

wilsonism 12:55pm #geowebchat To get back to the convening question, on embodiment of the geoweb, I feel as though interrogations of the bodily …

AndrewShears 12:55pm Painful admission: I still haven’t even started on Python. #GeoShame #GeoWebChat

mattzook 12:55pm #geowebchat while the geoweb is often self taught it doesn’t mean that there can’t be workshop style classes to work on topics together

wilsonism 12:56pm #geowebchat … in the geoweb take on (even) more importance, than perhaps in earlier disc. within GIS & Soc. The geoweb has/is a #body.

peterajohnson 12:56pm if anyone is seriously into drone purchase, check out @TerraPanLabs #geowebchat

ajturner 12:57pm @mattzook but not a dollar short #geowebchat

re_sieber 12:57pm @AndrewShears You’d like Python; it’s brutally brief #geowebchat

mappingmashups 12:57pm @kg_geomapper @AndrewShears Let me know (DM if you prefer) any other topics you’d find more comfortable. Seeking balance. #geowebchat

ajturner 12:58pm @AndrewShears if you learned one more scripting language – suggest Javascript. Provides all the user interactivity. #geowebchat

mattzook 12:58pm #geowebchat I’m slowly learning the beauty of Ruby but don’t want Perl to find out

peterajohnson 12:58pm @AndrewShears point isn’t to require coding lang, you can do geoweb without code. Just a willingness to do maps different. #geowebchat

USGSTNMRes 12:59pm @wilsonism Pedagogy leads to embodiment viz Foucault #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 1:00pm @mappingmashups oh not looking to change entire content of #geowebchat. This is how I’m learning about it :) jumping in #geowebchat

peterajohnson 1:00pm @AndrewShears an Intro to GIS lab using @geocommons would be a good start for students. Could contrast well with trad GIS #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:00pm Agreed! RT @kg_geomapper: oh not looking to change entire content of #geowebchat. This’s how I’m learning about it :) jumping in #geowebchat

mattdance 1:01pm Future chat topic? RT @re_sieber: Sensors (stationary and mobile) should be in curric. What ab harvesting realtime data? #geowebchat

peterajohnson 1:01pm @kg_geomapper high profile examples such as Katrina, Haiti, Sudan, California wildfires certainly help #geowebchat

ajturner 1:01pm @wilsonism I think embodiment is entirely dependent on manifestation. Publication for policy decision or finding nearby pub? #geowebchat

geographiliac 1:02pm @kg_geomapper I happened across an article (not assigned for class) and got excited #geowebchat

glennon 1:03pm Am more interested in an enumeration of the questions a #geoweb approach can best answer, rather than curriculum development #geowebchat

AndrewShears 1:03pm @peterajohnson Sad thing: that was first time on @geocommons. Perhaps illustrative of the BIG gap y’all have been talking about. #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:04pm Time to start wrapping up for this week. Next chats: Apr 3, 17, May 1, May 15. Same time: 3pm EDT (Note: UK will be on BST then) #geowebchat

wilsonism 1:04pm @ajturner Agreed. The body + technology + practice nexus. #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 1:04pm @geographiliac do you remember which article? For me it was at work, not school, where I got turned on; also wanting to create. #geowebchat

ajturner 1:05pm @glennon Are you interested more in the questions or the type of answers? #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:05pm Thanks to all the chatters and lurkers! Topic suggestions always welcome. Also, I will need a guest host for May 1. Volunteers? #geowebchat

re_sieber 1:05pm @glennon But that could be good start for curric development #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 1:06pm @geographiliac – actually it was specifically at a keynote by matt ericson from NYTimes who spoke at a NYCArcUser Symposium #geowebchat

ajturner 1:07pm @glennon indeed, for devs it’s often more interesting to devise solutions and forget the question :) #geowebchat

geographiliac 1:09pm Thanks @mappingmashups for organizing. Stay tuned for developments relating to #SheepCamp. Details:tinyurl.com/6pksgnk #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:09pm Correction: Normal time is 12noon PDT, 3pm EDT (not 3pm PDT as I just tweeted). And that’s 8pm BST. #geowebchat Thx @ajturner

geoparadigm 1:10pm Arrgh….missed #geowebchat

mappingmashups 1:10pm RT @map_maker: I feel like I need to respond. I am a map maker as I am not a cartographer or anything else. I’m not specialised. #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 1:10pm @ajturner @glennon I think for a lot of people it’s easy to forget about the question and go straight to a solution #geowebchat

kg_geomapper 1:11pm @mappingmashups thanks, again. this hour goes by incredibly fast #geowebchat

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