#geowebchat transcript, 17 July 2012

@mappingmashups Jul 16, 4:32pm Next #geowebchat: Strange bedfellows as @Esri buys @GeoIQ: what does this mean for the open geoweb? mappingmashups.net/2012/07/16/nex… Tue 12p PT. Pls RT!

@JeremyCrampton 11:48am @SeanGorman @GeoIQ Twitter discussion on the GeoIQ buyout by Esri at 3pm EST (use hashtag #geowebchat)

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Welcome to the #geowebchat, everyone. For those of you who are new, I recommend tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat as a way to follow along.

@mappingmashups 12:01pm We’re discussing the @GeoIQ and @Esri “merger”. Some readings: blog.geoiq.com/2012/07/10/bui… blog.geomusings.com/2012/07/10/geo… mapbrief.com/2012/07/11/its… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:03pm I’ll assume we all are familiar with @Esri, but who among us has had experience with @GeoIQ tools, like Geocommons? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:04pm RT @vtcraghead: @mappingmashups Plus the weepy depressing punditry: geosprocket.blogspot.com/2012/07/open-s… #geowebchat

@Org9 12:05pm @mappingmashups @Esri @GeoIQ I have w/ geocommons..but found that the shared geo datasets were very limited for Canada. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:05pm Nice, somehow I’d missed the @GeoSprocket piece. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm (Remember everybody to include the #geowebchat hashtag in your tweets… I just forgot twice already.)

@bricker 12:06pm I have played with it, a few clicks and you can make a map comparing US census track data #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:06pm I’ve used geocommons data, but not much in the way of their applications. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:07pm I’ve played with geocommons some, but in terms of time I’ve been stuck using what I know. Little time to learn new interface. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:07pm Ditto. Not the perfect place for finding data (kinda random stuff), but easy UX for sharing maps. #geowebchat #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:07pm @Org9 But aren’t shared datasets always more limited for Canada… seems like a recurring problem. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:08pm @vtcraghead I also felt like it’s a chore wading through all the random data there. But often I find good stuff. #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:09pm Is anyone from @GeoIQ here? @SeanGorman ? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:09pm Aren’t online datasets always messy to get at? Or am I just suffering from Factfinder PTSD? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm I do like the MapBrewer functionality… particularly the sample histograms for classifying choropleths. Good way to self-teach. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:09pm @mappingmashups @tmcw already stated it; it’s a great place to find errata, like a consignment shop. #geowebchat

@cwhelm 12:10pm One of our goals with @geocommons is to increase the data search and discover aspect of it #geowebchat

@cwhelm 12:10pm @AndrewShears I am #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:10pm Or @ajturner? Also, anybody from @Esri here? RT @JeremyCrampton: Is anyone from @GeoIQ here? @SeanGorman ? #geowebchat

@SeanGorman 12:10pm Hey @JeremyCrampton I’m online but bouncing around various meetings. Happy to chime in #geowebchat

@bricker 12:11pm @cwhelm That is how I understood it. Will that remain a goal? #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:12pm Just wondering if any new details (price, MOU etc) @SeanGorman @cwhelm #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:13pm @mappingmashups Good afternoon – balancing #geowebchat with #neogeobaby feeding

@cwhelm 12:13pm #geowebchat @bricker Yes for sure, our current tools will be the basis for our next project too and will build on what we have

@cwhelm 12:13pm @JeremyCrampton nope :) #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:13pm Also, any chance of ArcIQ? :) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:14pm I like the Q from the @GeoSprocket post: Was @GeoIQ forced to choose open data over open source? geosprocket.blogspot.ca/2012/07/open-s… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:15pm RT @SeanGorman: @JeremyCrampton @cwhelm both us and Esri are privately held so I don’t think they’ll be releasing the price. #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:15pm @mappingmashups I am interested in hearing about input on people familiar with ArcGIS Online + @geocommons can see improved #geowebchat

@SeanGorman 12:17pm @JeremyCrampton we’ll be working on helping build a next generation of tools so ArcIQ in spirit if not name #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:17pm @mappingmashups building tools, working with customers, and running a business are always balances. #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:18pm @mappingmashups The question from @GeoSprocket should also be, which is more effective when between Open Source and Open Data #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:19pm @ajturner In an already-buggy ecosystem, ArcGIS online has consistently been awful; import errors, bad cartographic defaults etc #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:19pm & if you’ve got open data u don’t need open source? RT Was @GeoIQ forced to choose open data over open source? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:20pm @ajturner A fair point. But I’m not sure ESRI is a poster child for any kind of democratization, data or source. #geowebchat

@jlhgis 12:20pm @ajturner Re Open Data: hope you can drive adoption of a new open format (shapefile replacement) & retire the ‘geodatabase’ #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:20pm I gave up on it RT @vtcraghead @ajturner ArcGIS online has consistently been awful; import errors, bad cartographic defaults etc #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:21pm @ajturner It should be plowed under and replaced by the GeoCommons architecture. #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:22pm The @Esri mapping blog/center has some good cartographers behind it #geowebchat (Ken Field, Aileen Buckley, Charlie Frye etc)

@mappingmashups 12:22pm Meanwhile there have been a few recent critiques worrying that the power of open data is overhyped. crookedtimber.org/2012/06/25/see… #geowebchat

@cwhelm 12:24pm I think another important question is do we need a monolithic GIS-on-the-web-app at all? #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:24pm @mappingmashups I’ve always thought that “open data” needed to be paired more closely with accessible tools. #geowebchat

@jlhgis 12:24pm @vtcraghead Re ArcGIS Online being ‘plowed under’ – so true. A funeral worth having :) #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:25pm @mappingmashups Cool post. I hadn’t seen that one. #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:25pm @mappingmashups working with @Esri users we can open data & accessible tools across a *lot* of organizations #multiplier #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:26pm @vtcraghead For a good response to that open data critique, read this one by @daeaves: eaves.ca/2012/06/28/uns… #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:26pm @cwhelm You’ve just joined a company that thinks so from a legacy/licensing standpoint. #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:26pm Excellent question. RT @cwhelm I think another important question is do we need a monolithic GIS-on-the-web-app at all? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:27pm @ajturner Well, certainly accessible tools (often free-as-in-beer) are key, but its definitely a shift from arguing for FLOSS. #geowebchat

@SeanGorman 12:27pm @JeremyCrampton one of the goals in us joining was to bring in more open source and start more new open source projects #geowebchat

@bFlood 12:28pm @SeanGorman @ajturner is geocommons going to remain free? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:29pm @ajturner Undeniably. Near-complete market penetration. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:31pm @SeanGorman Good to hear. But it’d be tough to do worse than the current status: github.com/Esri #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:31pm Oop, gotta go. My computer is being whisked away :) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:33pm @JeremyCrampton @cwhelm If we move away from GIS-on-the-web, are we back to the Web 2.0 ideal of “small pieces loosely joined”? #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:33pm @bFlood we’re going to continue offering free and open tools for sharing data and visualization. @geocommons has usage limits #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:34pm @mappingmashups You just described @geocommons’ (and ArcGIS Online’s) architecture. Usable interfaces, both human & machine #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:34pm @JeremyCrampton @cwhelm …the “online GIS monolith” can have usability benefits (stuff all in one place)… can be easier. #geowebchat

@cwhelm 12:35pm @mappingmashups also an API first, UI second approach #geowebchat

@Org9 12:35pm @mappingmashups Yep…is indeed a problem. I create all mine from scratch but never find any from others that are useful. #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:35pm You can put GIS on the Web, but can you bring the Web to traditional GIS users and methodologies? #geowebchat

@bFlood 12:35pm @ajturner @geocommons thanks, is there a link to those limits? (as they currently exist) #geowebchat

@Org9 12:37pm @cwhelm Perhaps only accept datasets that are complete as well. Fact checking for accuracy of data is nice too. @geocommons #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:38pm @ajturner Incentivize the learning of code tactics by GIS analysts. And not just ^&*%ing ArcPy wrappers. #geowebchat

@jlhgis 12:39pm @ajturner Only if the trad. GIS users’ SW can grok the Web. I suspect you’ll be doing something to fix that deficiency :) #geowebchat

@cwhelm 12:41pm @Org9 I do like the idea of intelligent data processing to facilitate faster “data to maps” – of course metadata suffers #geowebchat

@Org9 12:42pm @mappingmashups Yeah, that post was a good one. This type of critique started popin’ up a lot in UK circles about 1.5 years ago #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:43pm @Org9 Hate to be late to the party #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:43pm Gotta boogie. Thanks to the @GeoIQ folks for your thoughts. #geowebchat

@Org9 12:43pm @ajturner I def agree w/ this statement. I sure do like accurate open data w/ non buggy accessible tools :) #geowebchat @mappingmashups

@jlhgis 12:45pm @cwhelm intelligent automatic metadata generation (or degeneration as the case may be) has always been a tough nut to crack… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:47pm MT @CraigMDalton: @JeremyCrampton @cwhelm I find it similar to early GIS concepts- having 1 GIS- mainframe style. Tomlinson? #geowebchat

@jlhgis 12:50pm @GeoIQ folks – wish you the best. hopefully the infusion of your DNA will effect a little conscious evolution from within #geowebchat

@Org9 12:53pm @cwhelm Yes, i think it’s long overdue, that is the marriage btwn *useful searchable datasets->to-> graphics+map tools. #geowebchat

@Org9 12:53pm @vtcraghead Party on Bill… :) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm Sorry everyone, got a little distracted there. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:57pm We haven’t even mentioned other map behemoths like Google… is this deal independent of what Google does in the field? #geowebchat

@Org9 12:58pm @mappingmashups I gotta go but ttyl all later :D #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:01pm Next chat will be guest hosted by @burnsr77, and we’ll be talking about “big data” students.washington.edu/rlburns/2012/0… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:01pm Sorry I’m missing #geowebchat on geo company integration. @ #Facsumm, listening to talk on apps to combat sex trafficking

@sablepaws 1:02pm @mappingmashups Google maps/earth is imprinted in publics mind and used in Open Uni courses, do see as different entity though #geowebchat

@CityResearch 1:04pm anyone going to be in San Diego next week? #geowebchat @EsriUC

@Org9 1:05pm @re_sieber Sounds interesting.. keep us updated! #geowebchat

@billdollins 1:13pm @bFlood @ajturner if you log in to @geocommons, you can see the limits by viewing your profile. #geowebchat

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