#geowebchat transcript, 2 October 2012


@mappingmashups Oct 01, 4:26pm Reminder! #geowebchat tomorrow (Tue) w/ @bricker: Reconceptualizing Volunteered Geographic Information (VGI). 12pm PDT! mappingmashups.net/2012/09/27/let…

@re_sieber 9:22am #VGI in action: new Zooniverse project is rather wonderful @batdetect with @ProfKateJones & team batdetective.org #neogeoweb #geowebchat

@re_sieber 10:09am Hey #neogeoweb ers! #geowebchat TODAY w/ McGill alum @bricker on Reconceptualizing VGI. 3pm EDT Just use the hashtag #geowebchat from 3-4pm

@greerjacob 10:38am @HeatherLeson @unthinkingly any @ushahidi awesomes joining the Reconceptualizing VGI #geowebchat today? (@mappingmashups @bricker)

@re_sieber 10:41am TED Talk on Charting a course for better sanitation thru #VGI & citizen sensors thecity2.org/stories/charti… #geothink #neogeoweb #geowebchat

@greerjacob 10:42am @deepseadawn looks like an interesting article (requesting it now)! are you joining the #geowebchat on Reconceptualizing VGI at noon?

@mappingmashups 10:47am Or @ushahidi dissidents? @Org9 @DeadUshahidi? MT @greerjacob: any @ushahidi awesomes joining the Reconceptualizing VGI #geowebchat today?

@mattmoehr 11:55am @bricker was there a #geowebchat intro for this week? cc @mappingmashups

@bricker 12:00pm Welcome Geowebchatters (& lurkers)! Today we will be discussing the reconceptualization of VGI #geowebchat

@bricker 12:00pm #geowebchat Lets start by sharing what we love and/or loathe about the current conceptualization and usage of the term “VGI”

@mappingmashups 12:01pm @mattmoehr @bricker The #geowebchat intro post: mappingmashups.net/2012/09/27/let…

@bricker 12:02pm @mappingmashups thanks for posting the intro post link! #geowebchat

@bricker 12:03pm I know some of you out there have strong feeling on this matter #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:03pm Everyone who researches #VGI should consider & write ab the ethical implications of what they do. The V after all refers to ppl #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:04pm @mappingmashups @bricker got it thanks. What is (Harvey, 2013)? I probably know of it but not sure what you’re citing. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:05pm #VGI is a problem if you have to add letters in front of it (i, f). #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:05pm @re_sieber Yes, the V in #VGI refers to ppl, but worse is that it implies consent & intent which isn’t always there. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:06pm +1 RT @re_sieber: Everyone who researches #VGI should consider ethical implications of what they do. The V refers to ppl #geowebchat

@bricker 12:07pm @mattmoehr So hot off the press the library doesn’t have it yet! I’m first in line bit.ly/HKhLrv #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:07pm Or is the problem that #VGI has been used too broadly? Maybe #VGI isn’t a problem as a term if it sits alongside these others? #geowebchat

@jlabove 12:07pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber the consent could be called ‘ambient’ or ‘atomized’, which has it’s own geography worth considering. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:08pm @peterajohnson @mappingmashups Question: is it volunteered (aka out there feel free to use) or volunteer (hey, I’m a person too) #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:08pm Harvey 2013 -> RT @bricker: So hot off the press the library doesn’t have it yet! I’m first in line bit.ly/HKhLrv #geowebchat

@bricker 12:08pm @peterajohnson so VGI should only help those with the sufficient level of digital literacy? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:09pm In the rush to embrace VGI can we just think about how/if this differs from regular survey methods? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm @re_sieber @peterajohnson or volunteer as in “hey, I’m working for free and feel okay about that” #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:09pm RT @bricker: @peterajohnson so VGI should only help those with digital literacy? no. fVGI is called a ‘survey’ #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:10pm @peterajohnson I think “VGI” (notice the scare quotes) is VERY different from surveys. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:10pm @mappingmashups It’s not the use that’s problem; it’s the marketing. VGI is sold as authentic, democ, bc it comes from the ppl #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:11pm cc @fhap13 RT @mattmoehr: Harvey 2013 -> RT @bricker: So hot off the press the library doesn’t have it yet! bit.ly/HKhLrv #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:11pm @mattmoehr sure, I agree – as long as aspect of the spontaneous to your def of VGI. If I’m asking you, it is a survey. #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:12pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups 50 years ago, surveys were sold as “objective” and “accurate” bc of statistics. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:12pm @mappingmashups VGI’s not sold as just another data source. It’s the vox populi (w a georeference, natch) #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:13pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber even if you have consent, the participation is not always standardized (eg. crowdmap ‘volunteers’) #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:14pm @mattmoehr there is good discussion on survey methodology…and maybe the discussion around VGI will get there someday #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:15pm @peterajohnson Ah, but is that the goal? Just to re-do the methodological/epistemological debates on surveys but for VGI? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:15pm @mattmoehr @re_sieber @mappingmashups what happens when a VGI deployment has statistics for their data? #crowdmap #ushahidi #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:15pm @peterajohnson As 1 e.g.: how could you even think “representative sample” in a VGI setting? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:15pm VGI is not same as crowdsourcing but here’s good article on its costs/benies sensysmag.com/article/column… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:16pm @mattmoehr would that help to increase confidence in use of VGI for research or gov policy? Probably. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:16pm am i getting ahead of myself? does VGI = crowdsourcing? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:17pm @mattmoehr Isn’t VGI the ultimate convenience sample? #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:17pm @peterajohnson Agreed. Maybe also funding for research projects… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:17pm Also a good question to answer… RT @anabrandusescu: am i getting ahead of myself? does VGI = crowdsourcing? #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:18pm @peterajohnson Besides auto-ethnography. Wait. Nope, I’m lazy. VGI is more convenient. #lulz #geowebchat

@bricker 12:18pm @peterajohnson and its a good way of compartmentalizing VGI as a qualitative research method vs. organic phenomenon #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:20pm Working on paper on neighborhoods from census vs. flickr. Turns out, Census Bureau tried to crowd-source original tract def’ns. #geowebchat

@aSheepinSpace 12:20pm focus is on V here. What about the G? isnt that what brings VGI beyond UGC? THe V debate goes for UGC as well #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:20pm @anabrandusescu Does #crowdsourcing require an entity that “outsources” the job? is it fVGI? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:20pm @anabrandusescu VGI can be single contribut-ion/-or. Crowdsourcing is precision as substitute for accuracy & unpaid labour #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:22pm @mappingmashups FYI: every time you use fVGI, a puppy dies… #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:22pm @mappingmashups @anabrandusescu If VGI does not equal crowdsourcing what is/are the difference(s)? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:22pm @aSheepinSpace Yes, location distinguishes VGI from UGC and thus implications for surveillance, locational privacy #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:23pm @re_sieber Could we talk about a discrete atom of crowdsourcing created by one indiv? I don’t see singular/plural as meaningful. #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:23pm +1 RT @peterajohnson: @mappingmashups FYI: every time you use fVGI, a puppy dies… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:23pm Ok, I’ll bite here: crowdsourcing = task sharing, VGI = data type #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:23pm @peterajohnson @mappingmashups And everytime you mean iVGI when you use VGI, an angel loses its wings #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:24pm @re_sieber but there is alot of difference in the type of G we find in VGI. That has implications for use and analysis #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:24pm @mappingmashups STOP RETWEETING! Have you people no heart??? ;) #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:24pm @mappingmashups first, what does the ‘f’ in fVGI stand for? i’m new to the VGI acronym family #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm Huh… this was in the pre-digital era? RT @mattmoehr: Turns out, Census Bureau tried to crowd-source original tract def’ns. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:25pm @mappingmashups Can’t get the precision needed in wikipedia model of #VGI w only 1 contribution #geowebchat

@mhaklay 12:25pm @bricker @peterajohnson a hidden assumption of digital leveled playing field in VGI & source of lots of problems #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:25pm thanks @re_sieber, this sums it up nicely #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:26pm @mappingmashups Leading up to 1980 census. Tried to get ‘citizen’ panels to review the expert’s maps. #CensusTracts #geowebchat

@bricker 12:26pm @anabrandusescu f = facilitated and don’t listen to @peterajohnson #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:26pm @anabrandusescu fVGI = facilitated VGI. The rest of the acronym family can be found here: mappingmashups.net/2012/09/27/let… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:27pm @mhaklay @bricker @peterajohnson Much social work, NGO, volunteer sector literature on divides created when u rely on volunteers #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:28pm My take: in 2007 “crowdsourcing” as a term still felt dirty and unacademic. Otherwise Goodchild would have coined CrowdsourcedGI #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:29pm Appendix in this book is best summary of crowd sourcing the 1980 census tracts: play.google.com/store/books/de… #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:29pm @mappingmashups do people class ‘seeding’ as facilitating or just a form of help instructions? #geowebchat

@CityResearch 12:29pm @mattmoehr i’d be curious to know what you’re referring to regarding Census boundary definitions MT @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:29pm Why is much of social work, NGO, volunteer sector literature ignored in #VGI? Inconvenient truths? #geowebchat

@mhaklay 12:29pm #geowebchat can’t we just get over complaining about the V and just agree that it was a poor choice? It is useful in google searches …

@bricker 12:30pm @mhaklay yes!!! which leads me to ask- how has the term evolved since Goodchild 2007? #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:30pm @CityResearch For most spatial stats I read, census tracts == neighborhoods; even tho everyone says it’s not a good def’n. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:30pm @mhaklay Wars over choice of acronyms must NEVER die! (PPGIS/PGIS anyone?) #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:30pm @mhaklay well, it is a good discussion point at the very least! But true – should we move on (collectively as a field)? #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:31pm @mhaklay I think that’s the KFC-approach: make the acronym not stand for anything. I’m with you. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:31pm @AngharadStone To me providing help instructions is also facilitating. Don’t think it has to imply physical/offline interaction. #geowebchat

@mhaklay 12:32pm @re_sieber also why focus on ism when gmm and waze are more successful and influencial? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:51pm @anabrandusescu I think we are seeing the ethics discussion emerge from critical VGI lit #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:52pm @anabrandusescu @peterajohnson @bricker Ethics section in VGI lit could make it less influential. Don’t want 2 b reminded ab ppl #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:53pm @bricker @anabrandusescu Critical VGI?? Does that mean there’s a cVGI? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:53pm @bricker thx. speaking of critical, do we have time to chat about #deadushahidi in #geowebchat today?

@peterajohnson 12:54pm @re_sieber oh s**t! You just had to do that, didn’t you??? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:54pm @anabrandusescu we have 6 minutes left #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:55pm @sgillies @peterajohnson Hmm, is VGI literature relevant to anyone? The spatial data quality, motivations literature probably is #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:55pm @anabrandusescu #deadushahidi just found out about that today. Love it. Sustainability of implementations is good area for work #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:55pm @anabrandusescu @bricker What is deadushahidi? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:55pm @re_sieber @bricker there are only so many acronyms i can remember in a day! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm @mikedotonline @anabrandusescu @bricker It has a twitter account: @DeadUshahidi. Pretty self-explanatory from there #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:56pm @re_sieber @intergalaticman #geowebchat From #sheepcamp I think this is public access: docs.google.com/document/d/1LL…

@anabrandusescu 12:57pm @mikedotonline @bricker #deadushahidi is a crowdmap graveyard of inactive crowdmap deployments #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:57pm @re_sieber so is #VGI literature just a subset of these literatures? A domain w cross over in many places? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:57pm @peterajohnson And with the introduction of yet another prefix to VGI (cVGI), my work is done. Off to class #geowebchat

@bricker 12:57pm @re_sieber but who is going to die for that prefix? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:58pm @mikedotonline @anabrandusescu @bricker deadushahidi.crowdmap.com/page/index/1 #geowebchat

@bricker 12:59pm @peterajohnson won a bingo for this one: is #VGI lit just a subset of these literatures? A domain w cross over in many places? #geowebchat

@bricker 1:00pm Thanks for this RT @AngharadStone: @mikedotonline @anabrandusescu deadushahidi.crowdmap.com/page/index/1 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm @re_sieber @bricker Incentivizing #geowebchat participation: everybody’s @klout scores will rise by 5 points in the next 24hrs. #occupyklout

@mikedotonline 1:00pm @mappingmashups @anabrandusescu @bricker is this linked to the nature of VGI as data gathering and necessarily analysis? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 1:00pm thanks everyone, always a good time! p.s. Happy Canadian Thanksgiving! #geowebchat

@bricker 1:01pm It has been one hour. Thank you everyone for this lively and productive discussion! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:01pm Thanks @bricker for hosting #geowebchat! Join us again in 2 weeks at 11am PT for a chat w/ me, @geographiliac and @geoplace. Special time!

@anabrandusescu 1:02pm this is the most i’ve tweeted in a day. thanks @bricker for a great #geowebchat session

@anabrandusescu 1:04pm @mappingmashups @bricker @mikedotonline what do you think about a potential #geowebchat session on #crowdsourcing, #deadushahidi, etc.?

@mikedotonline 1:06pm @anabrandusescu @mappingmashups @bricker #geowebchat, sounds good to me

@geographiliac 3:19pm I have the opportunity to teach a course on Internet Geography. Help! What should I teach? All tips and suggestions are welcome. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 4:57pm “#Ushahidi and the Long Tail of Mapping for Social Change” | TechPresident: bit.ly/SI7DGT #deadushahidi #geowebchat

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