#geowebchat transcript, 16 October 2012

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 2:09am Next #geowebchat w/ @geographiliac: digital divides & the geoweb. Based on #AAG2013 sess: mappingmashups.net/aag-2013-cfp/ Tue 11am PT (Special time!)

@geographiliac 8:08am #geowebchat is at a special time today: 11am PST. I’ll be your host with @mappingmashups. Expect some Digital Divides/Digital Domination.

@geographiliac 8:09am @joeeckert being on an airplane is no excuse not to attend #geowebchat. They have wifi on planes now.

@mattmoehr 9:19am Knight + Mozilla * journo-hackers = @source Check out their open source data journalism hub source.mozillaopennews.org/en-US/ #geowebchat #dataviz

@re_sieber 10:39am Hey #neogeoweb ers! A #geowebchat today at 2pm ET on digital divides/digital domination. Wade in! Just use the #geowebchat hashtag

@geographiliac 11:00am it’s 11 am my time (PST). Welcome to #GeoWebChat. I’ll be your host today. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:01am #geowebchat hosted by @geographiliac and me, starting in a few seconds… Discussing digital divides and the geoweb. Welcome everyone!

@geographiliac 11:01am our topic for today is Digital Divides, Digital Domination, and Digital Divisions of Labour. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:03am Always good to remember the original definition of #crowdsourcing, that it’s the outsourcing of tasks to unpaid labour #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:04am this is coincidentally the same topic as the CFP @mappingmashups and @geoplace and I just put out. bit.ly/QGJBdU #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:05am also, there are multiple digital divides: a email divide =/=fb divide =/=tweet divide #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:05am Thanks @re_sieber #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 11:05am #allTheDs RT @geographiliac: our topic for today is Digital Divides, Digital Domination, and Digital Divisions of Labour. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:06am Yes, @geoplace apologizes that he couldn’t be here today. Just missed our chance to have the first triple-hosted chat! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:07am @geographiliac interesting to challenge your underlying assumptions: what technologies broaden particip? Ex. cellphones #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:09am @re_sieber I think that’s a good question–do cell phones broaden participation in the GeoWeb? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:10am @geographiliac @re_sieber And in many cases phones only let you access a limited (impoverished?) version of the web… #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 11:10am #geowebchat Got my first tablet device & I miss the mouse/pointer UI. Thought of dad who’s a clutz w/ a mouse. Who does Dig. Div. of inputs?

@ge01d 11:11am @geographiliac @re_sieber If there’s cell coverage, comfort with the tech, interest in participating (voluntarily or not), maybe #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:11am @re_sieber @geographiliac & we could also argue that some apps are mobile-only, shutting out those who only have desktop web. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:12am @geographiliac They broaden participation in digital spc. They are locationally aware so maybe they broaden particip in geoweb #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:13am @mappingmashups @geographiliac we forget that world of LBS can exist with SMS and a back-end server. No need for data services #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:13am @re_sieber I think that boils down to “what does participation in the geoweb mean?” #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:14am @mappingmashups @geographiliac So some r digitally literate in LBS spc & illiterate in geoweb spc (if geoweb demands data serv) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:15am @geographiliac Do we need to define “divide” as well? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:15am RT @joeeckert: we’re certainly more likely to get geographic data from mobile. Or at least geolocated. Different disciplining? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:16am RT @joeeckert: @re_sieber @geographiliac data still goes into that back end, regardless of whether they are captured #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:16am @joeeckert Is your in-flight wifi chopping off the #geowebchat hashtag from all your tweets? ;)

@joeeckert 11:17am @mappingmashups whoops, on my phone, apologies. #geowebchat !

@geographiliac 11:17am @re_sieber sure.There can be many types of divides.Divides in content generation,access to content, & divides in representation. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 11:18am @mappingmashups and here I thought you were just agreeing with me. ;) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:18am Working definition of digital divide: combines access to services, h/s, data PLUS literacy (maps, tech) PLUS comfort/ease of use #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:19am @geographiliac Anyone have a prob w/ the term “divide”? It’s just a more dramatic synonym for disparity, difference, inequality #geowebchat

@spara 11:20am Mobile users participate in the geoweb whether they know it or not, e.g. malaria tracking via cell phone news-medical.net/news/20121016/… #geowebchat

@ge01d 11:21am @mappingmashups I feel like all those terms fall into “divide.” #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:21am @geographiliac Are there multiple geographic divides in geoweb digital divides or is it still map reading? #geowebchat pt 1/2

@mappingmashups 11:22am @spara Yes, that links to the “InVoluntary Geographic Information” we discussed last time: mappingmashups.net/2012/10/02/geo…. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:22am @geographiliac Pt 2/2 Kinkenberg says there’s always two geog literacies: id’g location and id’g attribute. Plus map reading. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:23am @spara So when we talk about involuntary participation, we can shift discussion from digital divides to digital domination #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:25am @re_sieber @geographiliac These multiple literacies are sometimes products of (or contribute to) digital divisions of labor #geowebchat

@spara 11:25am @mappingmashups I don’t believe it’s involuntary participation. It’s just information we cast off as part of everyday life #geowebchat

@erictheise 11:25am one thing glossed over in yr cfp: uneven participation isn’t nec related to power/ privilege; always more lurkers than producers #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:26am And boom, I managed to bring all of our “D”s into the conversation! Divides, Domination, Divisions of Labor! #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:26am @erictheise is that in reference to lurking/producing on geowebchat or the cfp?!?! #geowebchat

@erictheise 11:27am uh oh, @geographiliac, i outed myself #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:28am @erictheise We mentioned that a bit in the first few sentences, but perhaps it’s a chicken-and-egg argument re: power/privilege #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 11:29am On div of labor: the #critcode folks are into topic of ‘resposive design’ right now. Let’s not forget abt divides among coders. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:29am @erictheise there’s an implied hierarchy in CritGIS. More privilege, less empowermt bad. What if ppl dont want privilege, power? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:30am …if you have power and privilege, to what extent do you (temporarily) give that up by lurking and not contributing? Or do you? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:30am (I mean the generic “you”, not you specifically @erictheise) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:30am @re_sieber @erictheise To some extent, geoweb digital divide is 1st world problem. #geowebchat

@spara 11:31am @re_sieber @erictheise I’m behind, is there a canon for #CritGIS? #GeoWebChat

@mattmoehr 11:31am Also this as eg of labor: images.metafilter.com/beingsold #geowebchat ‘if you’re not paying for it you’re the product being sold’

@erictheise 11:31am some might say you build power by keeping cards close to your chest and absorbing info #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:31am @mappingmashups maybe lurking has an implied power? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 11:32am @mappingmashups #geowebchat Or people who just don’t care about geographic data or participation in it

@geographiliac 11:32am @re_sieber first world problems are still interesting problems. #geowebchat

@ge01d 11:33am @re_sieber @mappingmashups You have more power lurking (learning?) than you do not being at the table at all #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 11:33am @re_sieber @mappingmashups #geowebchat certainly the power of voyeurism

@mappingmashups 11:33am @erictheise @re_sieber Yes, and since silence is implicit consent, often it’s the privileged who can afford not to speak up. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 11:33am @re_sieber @mappingmashups I like this – how so? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:33am @mattmoehr ‘if you’re not paying for it you’re the prod being sold’. We’re suggesting access is a rt to thing not being paid for #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:35am RT @joeeckert: at the same time, the developing world remains a popular target for “1st world capital – effects felt outside 1St #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:35am @joeeckert @mappingmashups Lurking is the power to not have to speak. The power to glean, learn, harvest, repurpose. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 11:36am @re_sieber @mappingmashups does repurposing cross the line from lurking to participation? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:37am Occupy Lurking! #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:37am @joeeckert I think it does. #geowebchat

@erictheise 11:37am & lurking can be entertainment for those who want no stake in the discussion #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:39am @joeeckert @mappingmashups Interesting. Harder to capture participation if it occurs in other venue. Long-term impact of lurking #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:39am .@spara @re_sieber @erictheise Here’s your #CritGIS canon: Critical GIS Reading List from @wilsonism: criticalgis.blogspot.com/p/critical-gis… #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 11:39am @re_sieber Access != good. Foucault would have something to say any gibing all wic participants a LBS enabled phone, eg. #geowebchat

@erictheise 11:41am ‘k, back in a few. years. RT @mappingmashups Here’s your #CritGIS canon: Critical GIS Reading List: criticalgis.blogspot.com/p/critical-gis… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:41am @mappingmashups Thank you, but the canon is obviously for those with privilege to access academic journals. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:41am @joeeckert @re_sieber Yes, repurposing is participation, often it’s particip in a diff venue. Still a lurker in orig context. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:43am @spara Too true. If there are some specific ones you (or anybody) needs, I’m sure “somebody” could hook you up offline. #geowebchat

@spara 11:47am @mappingmashups S’ok, I’m privileged enough to know someone with access to JSTOR so I should be able to get the gist of it #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:47am should we talk about exclusionary geoweb spaces, or exploitation of virtual labor? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 11:47am #geowebchat companies often want to frame tech democratically. would lurkers=non-voting citizens or a corp. category error?

@re_sieber 11:49am @CraigMDalton And if you don’t contribute then it’s your fault #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:51am RT @ge01d: I think there is more intention in lurking, while choosing not to vote could be due to disenfranchisement, ignorance. #geowebchat

@erictheise 11:52am @CraigMDalton, i’d say lurking isn’t necessarily non-voting. plenty of people vote without divulging their politics publicly #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:52am @geographiliac Yes, we mostly talk about divides as things that “just happen”, when often these spaces are actively exclusionary #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:53am Hoo boy, too many ppl going off-hashtag for me to herd back in… #geowebchat

@ge01d 11:54am @mappingmashups whoops, thanks. Not voting can also be a form of silent protest, I suppose. Lurking too? #geowebchat

@spara 11:54am @mappingmashups @geographiliac Agreed, the design of systems contains the biases of it’s designers #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:54am Maybe #geowebchat folks should try using TweetChat tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 11:54am I’m lurking, but not in protest. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 11:55am Interesting #geowebchat today. I’m otta here.

@mappingmashups 11:56am Oh, BTW, today is also Ada Lovelace Day, celebrating women in science & technology findingada.com Fortuitous coincidence! #geowebchat

@erictheise 11:57am before everyone scatters, could i ask who’s going to #NACIS? i’m still in pdx after #sotmpdx #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:58am No #NACIS for me, unfortunately. #geowebchat

@geographiliac 11:59am @erictheise I sent up a student to #NACIS & #sotmpdx. You should find her and give her life advice. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Thanks everybody for joining #geowebchat. If you’re coming to #AAG2013, don’t miss our session as part of #GEOCODE2013 newmaps.as.uky.edu/geocode-2013-g…

@ge01d 12:00pm @erictheise I’ll be at #NACIS looking forward to it! #geowebchat

@geographiliac 12:00pm So, I guess this is the end of #geowebchat for this week? #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:01pm @geographiliac, i’ll seek her out and buy the first round. not feeling expert around life advice these days. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:02pm Next #geowebchat is in three weeks: Nov 6, at the usual time, noon PT. It’s US election day, so I’ll host a chat about politics & the geoweb

@mappingmashups 12:02pm Thanks @geographiliac for co-hosting today. Glad we could work around your teaching schedule! #geowebchat

@geographiliac 12:20pm @mappingmashups thanks for carrying the weight of our team-session! I owe you a beer at #aag2013, as does @geoplace. #geowebchat

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