#geowebchat transcript, 20 November 2012

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 10:09pm Next #geowebchat: Crowdsourcing and Ushahidi: beyond the hype, beyond temporary solutions. Tue Nov 20, 12p PT. mappingmashups.net/2012/11/18/nex… Pls RT!

@ushahidi Nov 18, 11:59pm Toolkits for mappers wiki.ushahidi.com/display/WIKI/U… #geowebchat

@ushahidi Nov 19, 12:01am Open Source Guide to Design Thinking. Great for our community! fastcodesign.com/1671237/frog-c… #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 2:32pm i’m guest hosting tomorrow’s #geowebchat! Crowdsourcing+Ushahidi: beyond the hype, beyond temporary solutions. 3pm EST! mappingmashups.net/2012/11/18/nex…

@burnsr77 11:59am gearing up for #geowebchat at 3pm EST. #smem, #neogeo, #dg2g folks might be interested

@anabrandusescu 12:02pm welcome to today’s #geowebchat. today we will be discussing crowdsourcing, ushahidi and much more

@burnsr77 12:03pm howdy, #geowebchat and @anabrandusescu ! :)

@anabrandusescu 12:05pm so a potential starter…what does crowdsourcing mean for you in the context of geospatial data? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:05pm Hello #geowebchat! I will be popping in and out today, but luckily we have the capable @anabrandusescu guest-hosting this chat.

@burnsr77 12:05pm great topic for this week’s #geowebchat, as i’m looking at it for 2 purposes: my diss and my work with the wilson center

@HeatherLeson 12:07pm Hi folks, looking forward to #geowebchat. Waves @burnsr77 @mappingmashups

@burnsr77 12:07pm @anabrandusescu crowdsourcing can mean a few things: tasking public, tasking small # of vols, or passively harvesting data #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:08pm .@anabrandusescu I think it is more than crowdsourcing. @PatrickMeier calls it “bounded Crowdsourcing”. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:08pm @burnsr77 it also spans my thesis: working with community organizations in a montreal neighbourhood #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm Here’s a good interview with @mhaklay about crowdsourcing and related terms: sdimag.com/201210201290/S… #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:10pm @HeatherLeson *waves back* :) #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:10pm @HeatherLeson @PatrickMeier “bounded crowdsourcing”, great term! #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:12pm @HeatherLeson where does the “bounded crowdsourcing” phrase come up? on his blog, or in publication? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:12pm As @mhaklay points out, crowdsourcing (as an analogue to “outsourcing”) sounds quite exploitive. Doesn’t give crowd much agency. #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:13pm .@burnsr77 Here’s @PatrickMeier’s post: bit.ly/vKpKex #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:14pm …but I recognize the term crowdsourcing seems to have evolved, & many ppl use it w/out intending that negative baggage. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:14pm Lurking in #geowebchat. Not working to well with my schedule this semester…

@mhaklay 12:15pm @mappingmashups but also note that some cases it is justified to use the term. #geowebchat (i’m cooking dinner so can’t join alot!)

@peterajohnson 12:15pm I equate crowdsourcing with the citizens-as-sensors view vs. citizens as partners. Depends on goals of activity. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:15pm @mappingmashups it also has a crude economic feel to it. however, @mhaklay also mentions, it doesn’t incld collaborative work #geowebchat

@MapGoddess 12:16pm lurking on #geowebchat.

@anabrandusescu 12:16pm @AndrewShears feel free to add anything if possible :) #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:16pm as a general term, it also seems to treat data collection, production, processing, and analysis the same tho they’re really diff #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:17pm @burnsr77 can you explain the differences? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:20pm hi @peterajohnson! what do u make of short-term vs long-term participation between the sensors vs partners? what kind of goals ?#geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:21pm can we say that an ideal crowdsourcing project is one where all the contributors derive benefit from the result? #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:21pm @anabrandusescu sure. e.g.,diff app’s have been developed 4 data production (@ushahidi), collex (via @twitter), process (SBTF) #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:22pm it’s also important to note that crowdsourcing isn’t monopolized by geographers, either. Zooniverse, for instance. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:22pm @anabrandusescu partners would imply a more meaningful engagement vs. sensors. Length of engagement may not be related. #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:23pm @peterajohnson benefit is very hard to evaluate sometimes. or the degree to which one party benefits over another #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:25pm @peterajohnson yes, i think a balance would be ideal #geowebchat

@Tracey_Bee 12:26pm IPaidABribe is and an interesting subject when studying crowdsourcing and geotagging dutiee.com/ipaidabribe-co… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:27pm @burnsr77 v.true! Can crowdsourcing contributors be expected to only participate when benefits are worth it to them? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:28pm Still thinking abt @PatrickMeier’s “bounded crowdsourcing”. Since contributors are invite-only maybe they’re more like partners? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:29pm @mappingmashups quite the shift in the “expertise” argument, innit? #geowebchat p.s. hi everyone, also lurking.

@peterajohnson 12:30pm @mappingmashups so, is that really crowdsourcing if you are only asking a very select group? Or is that a survey? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:30pm @mappingmashups @PatrickMeier what about expanding this beyond invite-only contributors? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:30pm @mappingmashups @PatrickMeier what if a crowdmap can become the new facebook for a community? #geowebchat

@notgregorypeck 12:31pm @peterajohnson aren’t people are irrational, and so probably don’t even know how much benefit is ‘enough’ for themselves #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:31pm @anabrandusescu @mappingmashups @PatrickMeier Does an extremely niche field of interest have the capacity for wide inclusion? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:32pm @peterajohnson Is open or “unbounded crowdsourcing” not also a survey of sorts? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:33pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson sure, a self-selecting one. remind me the impact of this metaphor? does it even matter? #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:33pm @peterajohnson Would people participate if there was no benefit? Otherwise, isn’t it VGI? “being part of something” = enough? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:33pm @mappingmashups indeed. Though I would say that a survey implies a sampling strategy. Crowdsourcing is a self-selecting sample. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:33pm @peterajohnson @mappingmashups if this data is for research do you need boundaries in terms of what your ‘n’ is? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:33pm To clear about the “bounded crowdsourcing” model proposed here: irevolution.net/2011/12/07/why…, it starts invite-only and then snowballs. #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:34pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson these are great q’s, and a big reason i separate the diff conceptualizations. how abt delegation? #geowebchat

@tunameltdown 12:34pm Re benefit: as an end user, I’m suspicious of crowd-sourcing, unless my gain is clear. It rings of a tool for capitalist gain. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:34pm @anabrandusescu @peterajohnson @mappingmashups Usually don’t run into problems of n with large data… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:35pm @ge01d can we learn from off-line ‘crowdsourcing’ (barnraising, harvesting) that focus on social economy? #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:35pm @tunameltdown it most definitely is sometimes. that’s why “benefit” needs to be critically questioned #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:35pm like @re_sieber said in last week’s GIC launch: “what does it mean to do statistics when you don’t know what ‘n’ is anymore?” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:36pm @tunameltdown By “end user” you mean a contributor of data? Because there are also “end users” who use the crowdsourced data. #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:36pm The crux is: Who is defining “crowdsourcing”? I work & volunteer in this space. I think of it is a community drive for good. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:37pm @anabrandusescu @re_sieber *cough* digital divide anyone? We are a long way from sampling everyone… #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:37pm @mappingmashups @tunameltdown although I’d wager both “end users” are acting in service of capital at different pts in labor chn #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:38pm @HeatherLeson I agree – too often we ignore the community/social capital building aspects of crowdsourcing #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:38pm @ge01d You distinguish crowdsourcing from VGI by saying VGI is contributed w/ no expectation of benefit? Hard to separate these. #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:39pm @peterajohnson helping the community obliges others to help you later; and/or is fun? #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:40pm .@peterajohnson Digital volunteers are professional, dedicated & highly skilled. I am amazed daily by their strengths. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:40pm @HeatherLeson i.e. don’t let the advertisers get a chance to define “crowdsourcing” or we won’t like the results. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:41pm @tunameltdown have you encountered crowdsourcing in a specific way? is it always obvious that’s what it is? #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:41pm @mappingmashups No, my newb understanding is VGI may/not be done with intent to volunteer, crowdsourcing = volunteer on purpose. #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:41pm @HeatherLeson what are some common motivations you hear from ppl at @ushahidi for volunteering? #geowebchat

@kgjenkins 12:42pm 3 things that may motivate the crowd: 1. Direct benefit in final product 2. Feeling good about contributing to a project 3. Fun #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:42pm @vtcraghead @HeatherLeson will we have to refer to crowdsourcing sub-sets to ensure accuracy of definition? #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:43pm @peterajohnson Haven’t there been studies showing the digital divide shrinking? I know I’ve tweeted one before, trying to find. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:45pm @rushgeo I have no doubt that it is shrinking, but it is certainly still an issue – and will be for a long time #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:45pm @rushgeo even if people have computers/mobile devices, who is to say that they can use them to put a point on a map? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:45pm thoughts on long-term participation in crowdsourcing? how to not end up in the #deadushahidi graveyard? #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:46pm .@vtcraghead Preach it! #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:47pm @peterajohnson True enough. Hopefully we see more responsive web design so device of access matters less in future. #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:47pm @peterajohnson @rushgeo this 2010 piece by gilbert very useful for re-thinking dig divide: bit.ly/TesV00 #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:47pm .@burnsr77 Motivations I encounter are: common cause, their community, neighbour, country and, most of all : because it matters #geowebchat

@burnsr77 12:48pm @anabrandusescu @HeatherLeson @vtcraghead very difficult to say something generic about “crowdsourcing”, due to huge diversity #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:48pm @burnsr77 @anabrandusescu @HeatherLeson Crowdsourcing gumbo, crowdsourcing au poivre, crowdsourcing flambe -aka conflict mapping #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:48pm @peterajohnson @rushgeo v true! some people are still more comfortable drawing their location on paper maps vs dig maps #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:49pm Found the link I was thinking of: Pew study shows divide now age and income, less due to gender and race pewinternet.org/Reports/2012/D… #geowebchat

@tunameltdown 12:50pm @anabrandusescu would like to see a positive version of DeadUsh, for successful but retired projects. A Ush.Hall of fame? #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:50pm .@vtcraghead You forgot Crowdsourcing planet huggers #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:51pm what does sustainability mean in crowdsourcing when you are mapping events vs long-term community initiatives? #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:51pm .@tunameltdown Please create this. Feel free to use our wiki.ushahidi.com and map software ; ) #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:52pm @tunameltdown i like that! esp that some ushahidi projects are events and longevity is not key for them #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:52pm +1 RT @tunameltdown: would like to see a positive version of DeadUsh, for successful but retired projects. A Ush.Hall of fame? #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:52pm @anabrandusescu For sure, and Walking Papers is an awesome solution for bridging paper and digital crowdsourcing. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:53pm @HeatherLeson @tunameltdown jesse, are you up for collaborating on this with me? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:55pm @rushgeo so awesome. i love the flexibility of their products. you don’t have a printer? don’t worry, we’ll mail you maps! #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:56pm @anabrandusescu Great point. A dead Ushahidi may have led a very fulfilling life! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:56pm @rushgeo @anabrandusescu Check out Field Papers (fieldpapers.org) which appears to be an extension of Walking Papers #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:56pm 5 minutes left! #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 12:59pm @mappingmashups thanks for this #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:59pm @mappingmashups Nice! @stamen outdoes themselves again. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:59pm @peterajohnson @tunameltdown No shortage of good ones out there. Patrick M. already gave a broad look at them. #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 1:00pm that’s a wrap! thank you everyone for participating in today’s #geowebchat on crowdsourcing and ushahidi

@burnsr77 1:00pm @STIPCommonsLab will have a blog post up soon about gaming contribs to crowdsourcing. u all might like it. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:01pm @anabrandusescu Thanks so much for planning and hosting this one, Ana! #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 1:01pm .@anabrandusescu Thanks! Happy week all. Back to it! #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 1:02pm @mappingmashups anytime! thanks for having me #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:02pm Next #geowebchat is scheduled for the same time, in two weeks: December 4. Got @rushgeo signed up to host that one. Topic TBD. Ideas?

@anabrandusescu 1:03pm @HeatherLeson thank you! i’ll keep in mind to create ‘liveushahidi’ with @tunameltdown #geowebchat

@rushgeo 1:04pm @mappingmashups Yes, definitely welcoming ideas. Most everything I’ve thought of we’ve covered once or twice before. #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 1:05pm .@anabrandusescu This map might give you some ideas: bit.ly/Rtc3iS #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 1:06pm Amazing tool! RT @rushgeo: @mappingmashups Nice! @stamen outdoes themselves again. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 1:06pm Thanks Ana! #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu 1:10pm @peterajohnson thanks for participating :) #geowebchat

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