#geowebchat transcript, 4 December 2012


@rushgeo Nov 30, 10:44am What happens to the geoweb when the state hits the Internet off switch? Join us for the next #geowebchat on Dec 4th, 12pm PST / 8pm GMT

@mappingmashups Nov 30, 3:47pm Next #geowebchat: The Geoweb and the Internet Off Switch, w/ focus on #Syria bit.ly/TyaBN0 Tue Dec 4, 12p PT, 3p ET, 8pm GMT. Pls RT!

@rushgeo Dec 04, 11:30am Resources for tracking Internet outages: @renesys blog renesys.com/blog/ & Google Transparency Report google.com/transparencyre… #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:02pm Welcome everyone to the chat! Today we’re talking about geoweb & state – what happens when the Internet is shut off or censored? #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:03pm The Syrian conflict is a recent example, where Internet access was shut down btw 11/29 and 12/1. Also outages during Egypt rev. #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:07pm Access important to rebels for fundraising & promotion (isnblog.ethz.ch/isn-security-w…), important to outsiders for knowledge of conflict. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:07pm Shutoffs can also happen at smaller scales, like when cell service was cut in SF’s BART to thwart protests: sfgate.com/news/article/B… #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:08pm @mappingmashups Great example! It’s easy to think access is only curtailed “over there” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:09pm The cases of nation-wide shutdowns in Syria and Egypt are interesting brute-force techniques. Wouldn’t it also harm the regime? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:10pm Although I guess in Egypt’s case they did leave one ISP up: the one that hosts the Egyptian stock exchange. #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:10pm @mappingmashups One would think so, especially as they’re trying to win hearts and minds domestically and abroad #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:12pm While Israeli situation is different, it reminds me of the IDF’s PR efforts on Twitter. Assad can’t do same w/o Internet #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:12pm What’s the situation in the occ. palestinian territories, I wonder? Can/does Israel use control of internet infr. as a weapon? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:15pm How truly total are the shutdowns? Are there ways for resistance to get access via satellite or other methods? #geowebchat

@joeeckert Dec 04, 12:16pm @AndrewShears Satellite phone turns you into a target (eff.org/deeplinks/2012…) – not a swell idea, unfortunately. #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:17pm @mappingmashups Not sure, but it’d be nice if the ITU made a ruling on Internet access as weapon during their meeting this week #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:17pm Terrifying! RT @joeeckert: Satellite phone turns you into a target (eff.org/deeplinks/2012…) – not a swell idea, unfortunately. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:17pm Whoa. #scary RT @joeeckert: Satellite phone turns you into a target (eff.org/deeplinks/2012…) – not a swell idea, unfortunately. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:19pm I always wondered when I 1st heard abt geosocial media (whrrl, 4sq) if that could be used in reverse…. (1/2) #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:20pm Like, think of how Cambodia’s or Rwanda’s genocides could have been worse by govt hacking phones to show opposition location #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:20pm Google does have a Speak2Tweet service that can be used when there’s no Internet, but if there’s no phone service, either… #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:21pm Is Internet access becoming a human right? #geowebchat

@joeeckert Dec 04, 12:21pm @AndrewShears You can actually do that with OSM data – determine a person’s likely home location derived from their entries #geowebchat

@nichom Dec 04, 12:22pm Most disruptive aspect of outages on affected group? within group/ outgoing / incoming info? Relief focus generally on outgoing? #geowebchat

@myrascottsJ Dec 04, 12:23pm @AndrewShears What do you mean, “used in reverse?” #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:24pm @joeeckert Terrifying details are available on everyone via “dark web” but present location at least harder to pinpoint #geowebchat

@joeeckert Dec 04, 12:25pm @AndrewShears Congrats on being the first geographer besides me that I’ve heard using the term “dark web”. ;) #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:25pm @AndrewShears The UN considers it so, but not as strong of a deterrent as, say, a weapons ban treaty latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/201… #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:26pm @myrascottsJ instead of volunteered location, hacked by a malicious govt or group to get real-time location data on individual. #geowebchat

@joeeckert Dec 04, 12:27pm @AndrewShears @myrascottsJ Hack? You wouldn’t need to hack. Just plug into the API. Can do the same w/most social media. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:27pm @nichom Within-group comms necessary for organizing protests/rebellion… incoming needed to know what’s going in outside world. #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:27pm @AndrewShears @joeeckert Then there’s this hilarious but slightly off-topic example: gizmodo.com/5965295/vice-m… #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Dec 04, 12:28pm @joeeckert #geowebchat

@joeeckert Dec 04, 12:28pm @rushgeo @AndrewShears Which, all joking aside, is the same thing you can find in EXIF data on Flickr…through the API #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:29pm @joeeckert @myrascottsJ Any phone with GPS chip could be activated to send realtime location back with simple trojan. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:29pm @rushgeo @joeeckert I seem to remember @donttrythis falling victim to GPS coordinates embedded in a photo… #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:31pm @nichom Good Q. Gathering external support nice, but keeping domestic opinion on their side maybe most important #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:33pm How much does explicit geotagging figure in these situations? Or is georef limited to placenames in tweets, Youtube videos? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:35pm @rushgeo Last I saw, fewer than 1% of tweets are geotagged. betanews.com/2012/07/31/twi… #geowebchat

@nichom Dec 04, 12:35pm @mappingmashups within/in seem primary. How can relief best address within/in rather than focus on out if even possible at scale?#geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:36pm @AndrewShears @rushgeo Yeah, geotagged photos is the easiest way that people can slip up, because it’s so often on by default. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:37pm @mappingmashups @rushgeo Agreed. Even on Flickr which has a privacy fence, the geotag is still in the jpg. #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:37pm @AndrewShears I checked with @floating_sheep’s Ate yesterday, & it looks like geocoded Tweets in Syria rare, maybe 100/d #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:38pm Has anyone been able to connect an outage like Syria’s or Egypt’s to a specific tangible impact on the ground? #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:39pm Trendsmap shows few tweets in Syria, too. Mostly in Damascus. trendsmap.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:40pm @nichom When you say “relief”, you mean outsiders who are trying to aid activists/rebels within a country like Syria? #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:40pm Explicit georeferences in Ushahidi are probably more relevant, though syriatracker.crowdmap.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:41pm @nichom Because trying to help from outside can sometimes expose activists to more danger. I think this happened in Iran 2009… #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:42pm @AndrewShears It could backfire, as it may have in Egypt: bbc.co.uk/news/world-mid… #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Dec 04, 12:42pm @rushgeo @AndrewShears most of the geocoded tweets in the middle east come from Turkey, in my experience. #geowebchat

@nichom Dec 04, 12:43pm @mappingmashups Yes, in the vein of call to tweet srvc that are attmpts to ‘help’ ppl in an outage…yes, it can be problematic #geowebchat

@joeeckert Dec 04, 12:44pm @rushgeo @AndrewShears Geocoded tweets are just flat out rare in general. Not surprised re: Syria. #geowebchat

@joeeckert Dec 04, 12:45pm @alogicalfallacy Wait, do you have sprinkler access now too? Ugh, wish we could catch @twitter’s ear at @SoMeLabResearch #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:45pm RT @ToThePoint_KCRW: Not new, not entirely effective: The Syria internet blackout explained by @evacide ow.ly/fP1sv #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:46pm Looks like as we are chatting, @evacide from @EFF was on NPR talking abt the #Syria blackout. Will listen to that once #geowebchat is over.

@alogicalfallacy Dec 04, 12:47pm @joeeckert Yes. I have a geocoded monitor running on almost entirely free (and open source) sofhardware. Can write tutorial. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:47pm @alogicalfallacy Can write tutorial? No. Must write tutorial. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Dec 04, 12:47pm * software and hardware. fricking twitter. #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:48pm Was also looking into Sri Lanka, which cut off Internet & cell phones to northern region during Tamil civil war… #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Dec 04, 12:48pm He beat me to the punch! RT @mappingmashups: @alogicalfallacy Can write tutorial? No. Must write tutorial. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 12:48pm @alogicalfallacy @joeeckert But aren’t you going to be scooped when DOLLY goes public? #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 12:48pm … and found this post saying that banning cell phones is probably counterproductive, strategically lirneasia.net/2006/05/bannin… #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy 12:49pm @mappingmashups @joeeckert Oh, of course. I set this up for the election. But, it’s easy to do. Took us two weeks and some beer. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:49pm @mappingmashups @alogicalfallacy Different project. I’m not a big fan of geotagged tweets. Besides, already have NSF’s $ #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:50pm @mappingmashups I cannot wait for DOLLY to go public. I’ve got some holes in my data from my janky collection setup. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:50pm DOLLY? #feelingstupid #outoftheloop #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:51pm @rushgeo @mappingmashups We’re in the same boat. I’ve also got some testing I’d like to do against “normal”. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy 12:51pm My goals are way more modest than DOLLY. Wanted the experience and also something I can move around at will. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:51pm @AndrewShears It’s a @floating_sheep project — geotagged tweets, neat-o analytics, decision support, etc. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:51pm Hey @floating_sheep, when will DOLLY have a handle so we can “@” reference her on twitter? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:52pm @joeeckert @floating_sheep Ahhh, that makes sense. Cloned sheep reference FTW. #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:55pm What about role of implicit geolocation in conflicts? Youtube videos with “Homs” in title, but w/o using their geo api? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm We haven’t talked much about the Great Firewall of China, but @JossWright sent me these fascinating slides: slideshare.net/josswright/thr… #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:57pm Has anyone done stuff in geography with “dark web,” TOR, etc? (guessing not given @joeeckert’s reaction earlier) #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy 12:57pm Heh. I remember when the “Great Firewall” went up. Was living in Shenyang at the time. Internet cafes adapted immediately. #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:59pm @AndrewShears I’ve not heard of any, but it’d be interesting to see what happens if its use becomes more common (goes gray?) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:59pm A short New Scientist article about @JossWright’s China firewall geography newscientist.com/article/mg2162… (free reg req’d) #geowebchat

@rushgeo 1:00pm Alright everybody, we’re just about at the end of our scheduled time for the chat. Thanks for joining us! Any final thoughts? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 1:00pm @AndrewShears I found researching dark web stuff difficult – kept running into things I didn’t want to see and/or be assoc. w/. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 1:01pm @joeeckert That’s been my problem with it thus far as well. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 1:02pm @AndrewShears Not enough unicorn chasers in the world to deal with that scary ish. And the media focuses on the drugs…. #scary #geowebchat

@rushgeo 1:02pm @mappingmashups @JossWright Thanks for sharing! I’m hooked at “Through a Router Darkly” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 1:03pm Thanks @rushgeo for guest hosting today! For the next #geowebchat (in 2 weeks) send me your #topgeostoryof2012 & I’ll add up a top 10 list.

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 1:04pm I’ll post the transcript of today’s chat shortly. #geowebchat

@rushgeo Dec 04, 1:05pm @mappingmashups It was fun! Thanks everyone. Looking forward to #topgeostoryof2012 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 1:38pm RT @evacide: The Internet is back in #Syria, and so is malware targeting Syrian activists: eff.org/deeplinks/2012… #geowebchat

@myrascottsJ Dec 04, 2:29pm Good Q, do you think having access to a library is a human right? RT @AndrewShears: Is Internet access becoming a human right? #geowebchat

@EmilyRFekete Dec 04, 2:36pm @AndrewShears @joeeckert missed #geowebchat, but check term “geoslavery” by Dobson for dark uses of location-based services

@mappingmashups Dec 04, 9:00pm The @EFF’s @evacide on the internet blackout in #Syria and Syrian malware. Starts about 30min in: kcrw.com/news/programs/… #geowebchat

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