#geowebchat transcript, 21 May 2013

@mappingmashups May 18, 3:34pm Next #geowebchat: Personalized maps & the #filterbubble (suggested reading: theatlanticcities.com/technology/201…) Join the chat, Tues 12pm PDT. Please RT!

@mappingmashups May 18, 3:40pm Here’s the sign-up link for the new Google Maps: maps.google.com/help/maps/hell…. Maybe you’ll get an invite in time to try it out before #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 10:25am More reading for #geowebchat today (12pm PT): “Why the New Google Maps Is the Most Honest Form of Cartography” theatlantic.com/technology/arc…

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Starting now: #geowebchat about personalized maps and the “filter bubble”! theatlanticcities.com/technology/201…

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Follow hashtag #geowebchat to join the conversation, or mute the hashtag to ignore us. tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat is another good way to follow.

@mappingmashups 12:02pm Obviously the new vers. of Google Maps maps.google.com/help/maps/hell… prompted our chat, but any kind of personalized map is fair game. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:04pm I’m still waiting for my invite to the new Google Maps, so I haven’t tested the creep factor myself. Has anyone else tried it? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm RT @mattdance: Creepy. And misses the most exiting point of map – discovery of the new & unknown (to me at least) & connecting. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:06pm @mappingmashups Still waiting on my invite, too. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:07pm @mattdance I get the loss of the unknown, but can you elaborate on “connecting”? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:08pm @mappingmashups @mattdance It seems like an evolutionary step- many of the same business logics as Google had b4- now farther #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm @mattdance Thing is, though, that previous GMaps (and maps in general) aren’t necessarily good at showing the new and unknown… #geowebchat

@jfire 12:09pm It looks like the new Google Maps is already personalizing the map based on gmap search history. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm @mattdance …previous maps just show the old and popular. Might be new to you, but there’s lots of “new” you’d be missing. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:10pm The personalization of google web search results is convenient, yet annoying. Makes me feel overly directed. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:11pm Same with autosuggest of search terms – convenient, yet very limiting #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:11pm Censorship in the name of efficiency? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:12pm RT @mattdance: True on the new. But, it’s a place to start for a person exploring a ‘new’ region, trying to engage w/ unkn geogs #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:12pm I think the concern is that people won’t recognize that they are being limited. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:13pm personalized maps and search terms make me wish for the frontier days of the web…. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:14pm @JessiBreen Maybe there just needs to be more transparency? Google does some of that, in fine print saying why a place is rec’d. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:15pm @peterajohnson The frontier days when everybody’s search results were exactly the same as everybody else’s? Homogeneity? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:15pm @mappingmashups @JessiBreen #geowebchat perhaps somthing like Journalism’s independent source rule that requires at least two sources?

@mappingmashups 12:15pm @jfire John, the new maps is turned on for you? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:16pm @mappingmashups I think it would be an interesting survey to see how aware of Google’s algorithms people are. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:16pm @mappingmashups More like when you travel to a place and can’t help but wish you’d been there 10 years ago before it was ruined #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:17pm @peterajohnson Are you allowed to have those thoughts as a tourism geographer? ;) #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:17pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson #geowebchat Multiple questions? 1 Political- issue of what is public sphere and 2 Cultural limits

@jfire 12:17pm @mappingmashups Yes. Example: Stamen Design studio appears on my map. I searched for it when I visited for an OSM editathon. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:18pm RT @CraigMDalton: #geowebchat Yes; Filter Bubble, but also Hillis et al.’s “Google: The Culture of Search” (2013)

@mappingmashups 12:19pm @jfire Interesting. Do you do Google Places reviews, or have a G+ friends who do? I’m especially curious about those effects. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:19pm perhaps Google’s filter bubble will create a niche for non-filtered search engines? Or is Google-search dominance too strong? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:20pm Is there an on off function? Show me something new vs show me something I am sure to like #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:20pm @mappingmashups @jfire #geowebchat it’s tempting to drop my Cookies, cache, history etc… to see how this develops from a minimal start

@Issy_01 12:21pm What difference is googles maps engine going to make? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:21pm @bricker but why dispute that the Google algorithm has perfectly matched your needs and wants? ;) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:21pm @bricker I’d be a lot less anxious about it if it had that option. #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:22pm @bricker #geowebchat I’m reminded of Marshall McLuhan’s prediction that the off buttons on TV’s would become obsolete

@skorasaurus 12:22pm @bricker notifying you of something you’ll like and new places based on location, what yelp 4sq are doing #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:22pm @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups @jfire You’d just need a virtual machine, right? #geowebchat

@jfire 12:22pm @mappingmashups Haven’t written any reviews myself. I’m assuming it’s based on search history, but don’t know for sure. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:23pm @CraigMDalton @bricker TVs work without remotes? #geowebchat

@jfire 12:24pm I recall seeing a research project recently that generated routes with an element of serendipity. Anyone have a link? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:24pm @Issy_01 Interesting Q. I wonder whether user-generated data (like My Maps formerly) will make its way into the algorithm? #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:25pm So you could use Google Maps in a “depersonalized” way by clearing cache and signing out of Google, right? Or dedicate a browser #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm @JessiBreen @CraigMDalton A virtual machine might be overkill. Just a different browser, or a browser on incognito. #geowebchat

@jfire 12:25pm @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups Pretty sure access to the preview is tied to your G+ account, so might be tough. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:26pm @JessiBreen @CraigMDalton Although there have been some rumors of ppl getting personalized search results based on their IP. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:26pm … that might not work, if their algorithm considers your operating system and location, which I bet it does #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:26pm … I’m more interested in “tweaking” the algorithm to see what variations I can produce than turning it off #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:26pm @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton That is creepy. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:28pm @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton We are all officially just numbers. #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:28pm @mizmay #geowebchat yes- exactly. I’d be curious to see how it builds over time to get hints at how it works

@mappingmashups 12:28pm @jfire Possibly serendipitor.net from Mark Shepard (sentientcity.net) #geowebchat

@Issy_01 12:28pm @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups I’m currently using My Places, for the NGO I work for, is there going to be a signficant change? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:31pm When we ask serendipity from non-personalized maps, we must be much more conscious/active. #psychogeography doesn’t just happen. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:32pm @Issy_01 I’m not sure. I don’t know if My Places will change. Presumably not. #geowebchat

@jfire 12:32pm @mappingmashups Y, same idea. The one I saw suggested POIs along the route and had a dial for “how much free time do you have?” #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:33pm @JessiBreen @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton no way! not just numbers! we are definitely all huge hashes of all types of chars. ;) #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:33pm Search Engine Land has some interesting SEO-type points: searchengineland.com/new-google-map… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:33pm @jfire @mappingmashups BBC had a web article about 5 apps to help you find new places yesterday. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:34pm Or I should say, #psychogeography always happens. But a situationist dérive doesn’t just happen by using an unpersonalized map. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:35pm @mizmay @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton Don’t forget “potential revenue.” #geowebchat

@Geodoc31 12:35pm @mappingmashups That’s right, but Nothaft (2010) mentioned 4 types of construction of Serendipity #geowebchat

@Geodoc31 12:37pm @mappingmashups Editorial Serendipity, social serendipity, crowdsourced serendipity and algorithmic serendipity #geowebchat

@Geodoc31 12:39pm @mappingmashups Serendipity is linked to an action, a research… that produces unexpected outcomes, so it needs engagement #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:39pm Nothhaft (@henryhank): The Myth Of Serendipity techcrunch.com/2010/11/27/myt… on Eric Schmidt calling Google a “serendipity engine” #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:42pm Did anyone notice @TheAtlantic theatlantic.com/technology/arc… vs. @emilymbadger @AtlanticCities theatlanticcities.com/technology/201… ? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:42pm @nelson @mizmay Are we trying to test a non-personalized Google Maps, or to see the personalization happen from tabula rasa? #geowebchat

@emilymbadger 12:45pm @mizmay we are of many minds. :) But I think we can acknowledge that objectivity is nonexistent while still criticizing it. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:45pm @mizmay Yeah, @emilymbadger mentions @lmirani’s view in her article. Def @TheAtlantic and @AtlanticCities are all over this! #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:45pm @nelson that is a good question; I would assume so. #geowebchat.

@mizmay 12:47pm @mappingmashups @nelson I do not think I have the patience for the evolution of personalization… sounds like parenting o smthg #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:47pm RT @CraigMDalton: I’m more into B- see how it shapes my behavior; the range of cultural, visual ideas and possibilities #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:49pm On a purely cartographic level, did any of you watch the video to see how the GMaps basemap changes in response to searches? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:50pm …You see roads change color (& thickness? not sure) to highlight streets relevant to the highlighted place. It assumes a lot. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:50pm @mappingmashups @emilymbadger @lmirani Oh missed the ref! No that’s great @TheAtlantic @AtlanticCities #manyminds #winning #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:51pm …but it’s an interesting take on the growing flexibility of the basemap, and a move away from tired content/basemap binary. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:53pm @mappingmashups aye vector tiles. (sigh) vector tiles. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm Well, we’re about ready to wrap up another #geowebchat. Any last thoughts on the future of personalized cartography?

@emilymbadger 12:57pm @mappingmashups 1) I like idea of on/off switch. 2) @geoplace made interesting pt about how this will make studying maps harder #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:58pm Next #geowebchat will be same time in two weeks, June 4. Looking for a topic and guest host! More info here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

@mappingmashups 12:59pm And as always, take a moment to contribute to the #geowebwiki: geoweb.andrewshears.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:59pm RT @samhind10: infinitely harder to generalize. “the map does this” etc. just won’t stand up w/o increasing specificity. #geowebchat

@samhind10 1:01pm @mappingmashups also poss. make political action even more challenging. How to find common ground when there isn’t any. #geowebchat

@mattdance 1:01pm @mappingmashups Thanks for great hosting Alan. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:02pm Thanks everybody! See you next time. And thanks @emilymbadger at @AtlanticCities for the article that inspired today’s chat. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:04pm @samhind10 Or “common ground” and action will only be possible when activists are all G+ friends… #geowebchat

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