@mappingmashups Jul 13, 12:38pm Next #geowebchat: The new “Image of the City”: mapping geolocated photos from Instagram, Flickr and beyond! Tues 12pm PT, 3pm ET. Please RT!
@re_sieber Jul 15, 8:14pm .@floraandflying Since you’re our Instagram expert, hopefully you can participate in tmr’s #geowebchat on “Image of the City”
@AllFourPaws_SEA 6:17am I will likely have something deep and meaningful to say during today’s #geowebchat. My geotagged image is EXPLOITED daily by thumbed apes
@mappingmashups 10:11am Reminder! #geowebchat today at 12pm PDT, 3pm EDT. Topic is visualization of geolocated photography. Please join!
@mattmoehr 10:29am hey @buckley_tom, are you a regular? MT @mappingmashups: Reminder! #geowebchat today @ 3pm EDT. Topic is viz of geolocated photography.
@mappingmashups 12:01pm Welcome to #geowebchat everyone! Today we’re discussing how to visualize geocoded photos!
@enf 12:02pm @mappingmashups Hello #geowebchat!
@mappingmashups 12:02pm If you want to join the chat, just make sure to include “#geowebchat” in all your tweets. Otherwise, you can mute that hashtag to ignore!
@re_sieber 12:04pm Do we assume that everyone can correctly geotag their photos? Or that there’s a single correct geotag for a photo? #geowebchat
@enf 12:05pm @re_sieber In practice there are a lot of bogus geotags on photos. It’s better on tweets where there is less manual intervention #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:05pm @re_sieber Very good point. Geotagged photos can be some of the noisiest, dirtiest VGI. Poor GPS, sloppy tags, etc. #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:07pm @enf @re_sieber But by the same token, Eric, a smaller percentage of tweets are geotagged, correct? #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:07pm @enf YES, there’s inaccuracy, but also what’s the correct tag for image can be contested. #geowebchat Also we assume an app for geotagging.
@mappingmashups 12:07pm RT @floraandflying: you cannot make that assumption because often times users create places e.g. in instagram and they incorrect #geowebchat
@enf 12:07pm @re_sieber Also big conflict: does the geotag reflect the photographer’s location or the subject of the photo’s location? #geowebchat
@enf 12:08pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber About 1% of tweets have location. Not sure what fraction of photos do. #geowebchat
@floraandflying 12:08pm @re_sieber Who is to say that the geocoding that FourSquare or other photo and location sharing apps use is correct #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:09pm We also should talk time. A fave word of mine is palimpsest, the liminal, unfinished, changing. Photos should be like snapchat #geowebchat
@JessiBreen 12:09pm @floraandflying True @foursquare will let me claim to be blocks away from where I really am. #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:09pm @enf @re_sieber Yes, user-generated tags might say one thing, while gps would say another. I remember seeing examples in NY/NJ #geowebchat
@floraandflying 12:10pm @mappingmashups and in some cases, places don’t exist in existing maps because they are community created or named places #geowebchat
@floraandflying 12:10pm @JessiBreen @foursquare are you sure you know where you are? #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:10pm @enf @re_sieber …where the boundaries of the NY shape (deduced from tags) including long fingers to include viewpoints in NJ #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:11pm RT @manovich: @mappingmashups @razsc @Nadavho @_jaychow @phototrails Greetings, this is Lev #manovich from Phototrails team #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:11pm @manovich Hello! Excited you could drop in! Just make sure to include the #geowebchat hashtag so we can all follow the conversation.
@CraigMDalton 12:12pm @mappingmashups @enf @re_sieber #geowebchat This sounds like a cartographic design challenge
@manovich 12:13pm @enf @re_sieber #geowebchat We used Instagram API which (supposedly) has correct location for all photos
@mappingmashups 12:13pm @re_sieber Renee, have you joined the @floating_sheep snapchat cabal yet? #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:13pm @floraandflying @mappingmashups what if photos are images of the imagined city? We shudn’t assume a std georeferent base #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:14pm @geoparadigm so if I read right, it suggest putting location in exif, but I don’t think twitter/flickr/instagram read that #geowebchat
@floraandflying 12:14pm @bricker @JessiBreen @foursquare @foursquareAPI apps rely on #foursquareAPI and in Seattle, things have some strange placenames #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:14pm @manovich @enf @re_sieber Since your work is looking at the scale of metro areas, some amount of inaccuracy won’t hurt. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:15pm @mappingmashups @floating_sheep Not yet. Is the @floating_sheep snapchat cabal for or against the vision of snapchat? #geowebchat
@Nadavho 12:15pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber on the other hand they provide the most granular hyper local data social media provide #geowebchat
@enf 12:15pm @mattmoehr @geoparadigm Flickr reads location from EXIF if you turn the option on. #geowebchat
@geoparadigm 12:16pm @enf @mattmoehr #geowebchat Picasa also.
@floraandflying 12:16pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups I think it is in the eye of the photographer, compare places imaged in @photosynth v. @instagram #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:16pm @enf @geoparadigm really? Now want to go find users that are doing that, as special group of super geonerd… #geowebchat
@manovich 12:17pm @enf @mattmoehr @geoparadigm #geowebchat Eric, your pioneering work inspired so many people.. can you tell us about your future plans?
@enf 12:18pm @mattmoehr @geoparadigm Lots and lots of people do, because cell phones are the most popular cameras and they populate EXIF. #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:18pm @re_sieber makes the point that we must consider time… luckily time is generally less error-prone… #geowebchat
@manovich 12:19pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat is the point to be accurate? Or suggest alternative time/space mappings?
@re_sieber 12:19pm @Nadavho If/when we can infer location (eg thru pattern matching) then our images can provide hyperlocal granularity #geowebchat
@enf 12:19pm @manovich @mattmoehr @geoparadigm I am leaning on Twitter more than on photos because the volume is so much higher… #geowebchat
@CraigMDalton 12:20pm @mappingmashups @manovich @enf @re_sieber #geowebchat true, but there are still issues w/ scale&viualization (like big data viz @ the aag)
@enf 12:20pm @manovich @mattmoehr @geoparadigm …and because it is more reflective of people’s total mobility, not just highlights #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:20pm @manovich Oh, I hardly think they’re incompatible. I think an alternative visualization doesn’t need to imply less accurate. #geowebchat
@CraigMDalton 12:20pm @mappingmashups @manovich @enf @re_sieber #geowebchat how well can one really know or see with that many aggregated photos?
@mattmoehr 12:20pm @mappingmashups @manovich also their paper about Israeli memorial/holiday days is about time. Don’t have the cite off-hand. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:20pm @floraandflying @mappingmashups @photosynth @instagram Yes, we can get hung up on geotags for supplying geographic information #geowebchat
@manovich 12:21pm @enf @mattmoehr @geoparadigm Good point! “because it is more reflective of people’s total mobility, not just highlights” #geowebchat
@enf 12:21pm @mappingmashups @manovich The really bad time errors on Flickr are all the things that are coded to midnight or just after #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:22pm RT @Nadavho: @re_sieber What about using the content of the images to infer location? #geowebchat
@floraandflying 12:22pm @re_sieber @Nadavho question is of what? half eaten donuts? Blurry landscapes? More care is put into flickr imagery w/tags #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:23pm @Nadavho @re_sieber A very challenging task! Mike Goodchild has been using examples of a US Gov initiative trying to do that. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:25pm @floraandflying @Nadavho Implication is that content value is better when it’s geotagged #geowebchat
@CraigMDalton 12:25pm @mappingmashups @Nadavho @re_sieber #geowebchat honest question: how much computation power does that take these days? Google image search?
@mappingmashups 12:26pm RT @manovich: @mappingmashups Yes it can be accurate but suggest different understanding of time and space #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:26pm RT @manovich: @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups @Nadavho @re_sieber most of Phototrails was done on a single laptop #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:26pm .@razsc Join our #geowebchat on the image of the city.
@razsc 12:28pm Hi guys! good to be here! #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:28pm All this talk about imagery, but what about privacy implications? Is this why blurry filters were created? #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:28pm Does anyone remember what I’m trying to think of from Goodchild’s recent prezos? Anyone have a link to a recent slidedeck? #geowebchat
@floraandflying 12:29pm @re_sieber @Nadavho it isn’t, it just means you are really good at typing on a mobile device #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:30pm @manovich Oh yeah. Just remembered that I liked that “(not) On photography” section heading. #cheeky #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:30pm @AllFourPaws_SEA There is a good literature on geog masking that we should be promoting, eg moving tags to street intersections #geowebchat
@USGSTNMRes 12:31pm late 2 party but echo @AllFourPaws_SEA. Ethics of using soc med photos esp. for govt agencies & researchers #geowebchat?
@mattmoehr 12:32pm #nsaJokeGoesHere MT @AllFourPaws_SEA: what about privacy implications? Is this why blurry filters were created? #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:32pm @USGSTNMRes since we have cookie policies, or did, we need to think about this #theroyalwe #geowebchat
@manovich 12:32pm @mattmoehr @AllFourPaws_SEA #geowebchat can we show full size Instagram photos in visualizations? Is this appropriate or not?
@mattmoehr 12:33pm @USGSTNMRes @AllFourPaws_SEA right. Like did users mean for their photos to be in our research when they made them “public”? #geowebchat
@enf 12:33pm @re_sieber @AllFourPaws_SEA Meanwhile I ignore any points that have been snapped to an intersection or venues as untrustworthy #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:33pm @re_sieber agree and other things like blurring out faces etc. #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:34pm @enf @re_sieber unless you are sitting and waiting at a corner like I do #gooddogsit #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:34pm @enf @re_sieber @AllFourPaws_SEA How do you know which have been snapped? Other than looking for lots with exact same coords. #geowebchat
@USGSTNMRes 12:35pm @AllFourPaws_SEA. Not familiar with cookie policies (#getsmarter) #geowebchat
@manovich 12:35pm @mattmoehr @enf @re_sieber @AllFourPaws_SEA #geowebchat On Instagram, people upload old photos from their library, and they get “now” stamp
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:35pm @manovich @mattmoehr since brands do it, why can’t the rest of the world? Instagram is about monetization #geowebchat
@CraigMDalton 12:35pm @mattmoehr @USGSTNMRes @AllFourPaws_SEA #geowebchat good question about public space here. Where do people not expect it vs/ exhibitionism
@enf 12:36pm @mattmoehr @re_sieber @AllFourPaws_SEA Detect snapping just by duplication of locations. So you could fool me if you tried. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:36pm @mattmoehr We should aim for deliber loss of granularity that allows for research but protects some privacy. Masking does that #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:37pm @USGSTNMRes one agency my ape worked for did not track cookies, not sure about now #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:37pm @JacqInTheBooks thanks. Will get apes to read it me #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:37pm @enf @re_sieber @AllFourPaws_SEA Want to build a global database of coords with associated probability of being “fake”? #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:38pm @mattmoehr @manovich we probably should be more cautious #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:39pm @AllFourPaws_SEA on other hand, maybe research is exactly what some users have in mind when making photos public. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:40pm But what about an imagined city, like a scale-variant mental map? Allow for geo/cartesian tagging on top of photo base, drawing #geowebchat
@enf 12:40pm @mattmoehr @re_sieber @AllFourPaws_SEA Wish I knew with that level of certainty. One thing is clear: (0,0) is the fakest of all. #geowebchat
@manovich 12:40pm @mattmoehr @AllFourPaws_SEA @AllFourPaws_SEA #geowebchat User wants her/his photos to be seen and “liked” by max number of people
@mattmoehr 12:41pm @re_sieber does “masking” = snapping locations to nearby venues? or just introducing random perturbation? #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:41pm That article abt @BostonGlobe also describes how they struggled w/ privacy. They leave a comment on each photo to notify owner. #geowebchat
@manovich 12:42pm @re_sieber #geowebchat I miss spatial imagination of Michel de Certeau, Foucault, and of course “Imaginary Cities.”
@mappingmashups 12:42pm @enf @mattmoehr @re_sieber @AllFourPaws_SEA Is this @NullIsland’s first #geowebchat appearance?
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:42pm @manovich @mattmoehr I admit to being an attention getter, comes with the exploitation of my handsomeness by apes #chickmagnet #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:42pm @mattmoehr Lots of geog masking techniques out there. Snapping, perturbation, aggregation are most common #geowebchat
@bricker 12:43pm @re_sieber #geowebchat what would be the point? no mental maps are the same, they are all skewed, would it be art?
@manovich 12:43pm #geowebchat what about “psychogeography” – still relevant in the age of APIs?
@enf 12:44pm @re_sieber @mattmoehr A lot of tweets have horrible banding to ~1km multiples, btw. Must filter to produce decent maps. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:44pm @manovich We could do de Certeau on open layers. We have all the software stack we need #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:44pm What is the temporal equivalent of @NullIsland? Unix epoch? @enf, you get lots of timestamps at midnight, but for what date? #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:44pm @re_sieber yeah. Thought @enf said he filtered out aggregated/snapped locations. So masking technique would change results. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:45pm @bricker Yes, but art that could be catesian tagged #seducedByTags #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:45pm @enf Is that iPhone/Android specific? #geowebchat
@AllFourPaws_SEA 12:45pm @mappingmashups @enf @mattmoehr @re_sieber @NullIsland it is my second and I need a walk and nap. #geowebchat
@enf 12:45pm @mappingmashups @NullIsland There’s Jan 1, 1970 for Unix, but lots of dead batteries reset to Jan 1, 2000. Let me check stats… #geowebchat
@enf 12:46pm @mattmoehr Banding is all iPhone, as far as I can tell. #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:46pm @manovich @re_sieber The earliest def’ns of neogeography (like @DiAnnEisnor’s) were practically synonymous with psychogeography #geowebchat
@USGSTNMRes 12:46pm @manovich psychogeography movement (and situationists) v relevant to what geographers call neogeography (ie geoweb) #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:46pm @manovich I’ve had 2 students become the cyberflaneur/cyberflaneuse w geo/cartesian tags #geowebchat
@michalmigurski 12:46pm @re_sieber Yahoo’s Fire Eagle platform had an interesting population-weighted approach to anonymize locations cc @tomcoates #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:47pm @manovich @re_sieber With @ajturner’s definition, psychogeography was still there, but technical aspects were more important #geowebchat
@floraandflying 12:48pm @re_sieber @bricker think about tag clouds, could you do the same with what people say about a location v. the actual location #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:48pm @mappingmashups @manovich @re_sieber I re-read Golledge’s AAG address (2002?) & was shocked by how much pysc-geo I’ve forgotten #geowebchat
@USGSTNMRes 12:48pm @mappingmashups @manovich @re_sieber @ajturner yes but still frequently cited as precursors #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:50pm Hey #geowebchat thanks so much for not talking about Google Glasses. #sincerely
@enf 12:51pm @mappingmashups @NullIsland Midnight photos tend to also be the 1st of the month, but what month and year varies a lot. #geowebchat
@re_sieber 12:51pm @mattmoehr @mappingmashups @manovich We can focus on accuracy of geotagging. But what we geotag ‘to’ can be made contingent #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:52pm @floraandflying @re_sieber @bricker It’s not about photos, but this made me think of metropho.rs (@metrophors) #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:52pm RT @manovich: we need “spatial theory” reader specifically geared for people who work with mapping soft! #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:52pm @re_sieber there’s a farm back home called “Rodman place” b/c that’s the guy who HOMESTEADED there. Label’s not on maps, obvs. #geowebchat
@enf 12:53pm @mappingmashups @NullIsland The winner is January 1, 2004, followed by January 1, 1980, then 2005, 2008, 2003, 2009, Aug 1 2007. #geowebchat
@USGSTNMRes 12:54pm @mappingmashups @manovich This could be the forum to write one? #geowebchat
@glenfarrelly 12:55pm @manovich I think locative media is making psychogeography more viable and fun – not sure how APIs render it irrelevant #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 12:56pm @glenfarrelly @manovich APIs require object models and functions (Get, Post, etc.). de Certue might not be down with that. #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:57pm @glenfarrelly @manovich The issue is whether the cartesian frame is a threat to some kind of “true” psychogeography. I say not. #geowebchat
@enf 12:58pm @manovich @mappingmashups @NullIsland From geotagged public Flickr. Jan 1 1980 is FAT file system epoch. Not sure about others. #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 12:58pm No coincidence that a current psychogeography app, @findery, was founded by @Caterina, formerly of @Flickr. Photos<->psychogeo #geowebchat
@USGSTNMRes 12:58pm RT @manovich “I hope the theory is not limited to 140 char. I need at least 150!” Would make it more fun #geowebchat
@manovich 12:59pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat after 1917 evolution, art critics theorized Malevich’s non-perspectival projection as the “POV of the masses”
@mappingmashups 12:59pm So, we’re hitting the end of our #geowebchat hour. Any last thoughts? (Also, feel free to keep talking).
@manovich 1:00pm @mappingmashups: #geowebchat just in: labratrevenge.com/pdx/#12/45.480… @USGSTNMRes 1:01pm @mappingmashups Fun topic! Lets do that spatial theory reader #geowebchat @mappingmashups 1:01pm Next #geowebchat will be in three weeks, August 6, at the same time. Guest hosted by @vtcraghead about @MapBox real-time satellite imagery @mattmoehr 1:02pm Do all #geowebchat-ers get into the satellite image beta? @mappingmashups @vtcraghead @MapBox @AllFourPaws_SEA 1:03pm That was fun! Thanks for #geowebchat which is way more fun than #geowebcats @geoparadigm 1:03pm @mappingmashups @vtcraghead @MapBox Not quite real time…6 hour turn around ain’t bad though. #geowebchat @glenfarrelly 1:04pm Sorry late to #geowebchat & first time. I wonder if visualizations of geotagged data often lack human dimension & generalizability @geoparadigm 1:06pm @mappingmashups Alan, one more congrats on the job. #geowebchat @razsc 1:07pm Dang! internet connection #fail… sorry I missed the second part of #geowebchat @mattmoehr 1:07pm @glenfarrelly most geotag viz makes me feel like I’m part of a species of ants and I’m looking at traces of our paths/anthills. #geowebchat @glenfarrelly 1:22pm @mattmoehr I agree Matt – geotagged data are fascinating artifacts, but not for generalizing. Also, loss of context is troubling @samhind10 1:24pm @mappingmashups @glenfarrelly @manovich Doesn’t matter if it can’t facilitate “true” serendipity – idealistic/romantic imo. #geowebchat @RobKitchin 2:25pm @mappingmashups @manovich How about ‘The Map Reader’ + ‘Key Thinkers on Space & Place’ + ‘Mapping Cyberspace’ ;-) #geowebchat @ajturner 3:56pm @mappingmashups as an engineer I am interested in the applied & practical aspects of #neogeography #geowebchat @manovich @re_sieber
@USGSTNMRes 1:01pm @mappingmashups Fun topic! Lets do that spatial theory reader #geowebchat
@mappingmashups 1:01pm Next #geowebchat will be in three weeks, August 6, at the same time. Guest hosted by @vtcraghead about @MapBox real-time satellite imagery
@mattmoehr 1:02pm Do all #geowebchat-ers get into the satellite image beta? @mappingmashups @vtcraghead @MapBox
@AllFourPaws_SEA 1:03pm That was fun! Thanks for #geowebchat which is way more fun than #geowebcats
@geoparadigm 1:03pm @mappingmashups @vtcraghead @MapBox Not quite real time…6 hour turn around ain’t bad though. #geowebchat
@glenfarrelly 1:04pm Sorry late to #geowebchat & first time. I wonder if visualizations of geotagged data often lack human dimension & generalizability
@geoparadigm 1:06pm @mappingmashups Alan, one more congrats on the job. #geowebchat
@razsc 1:07pm Dang! internet connection #fail… sorry I missed the second part of #geowebchat
@mattmoehr 1:07pm @glenfarrelly most geotag viz makes me feel like I’m part of a species of ants and I’m looking at traces of our paths/anthills. #geowebchat
@glenfarrelly 1:22pm @mattmoehr I agree Matt – geotagged data are fascinating artifacts, but not for generalizing. Also, loss of context is troubling
@samhind10 1:24pm @mappingmashups @glenfarrelly @manovich Doesn’t matter if it can’t facilitate “true” serendipity – idealistic/romantic imo. #geowebchat
@RobKitchin 2:25pm @mappingmashups @manovich How about ‘The Map Reader’ + ‘Key Thinkers on Space & Place’ + ‘Mapping Cyberspace’ ;-) #geowebchat
@ajturner 3:56pm @mappingmashups as an engineer I am interested in the applied & practical aspects of #neogeography #geowebchat @manovich @re_sieber