#geowebchat transcript, 6 August 2013

@vtcraghead 6:47am Join us for a #geowebchat today at 3PM ET on “near-realtime satellite imagery” – Some background: bit.ly/13YdN8I

@vtcraghead 7:40am Just in time for today’s #geowebchat at 3PM ET, @brunosan drops some process details: @MapBox Satellite Live: PBS bit.ly/1ctcjMY

@vtcraghead 10:06am Tasking without a fax machine? We’ve got a lot to talk about at today’s #geowebchat – 3PM ET bit.ly/13YiShvw

@vtcraghead 11:02am In 1hr – 3PM ET – we’ll #geowebchat about the potential & pitfalls of near-realtime satellite imagery – wired.com/wiredscience/2…

@HeatherLeson 11:58am Time for #geowebchat about realtime satellite imagery

@vtcraghead 11:58am Hey everyone – we’ll be starting in a few minutes. The best way to tune into the conversation is here: qub.me/2D0vbe #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 11:59am Today we’ll be talking about the potential for near-realtime satellite imagery as new sensors and tools come online #geowebchat

@Moro_Cedric 12:00pm #crisismapping #digihums #openstreetmap #ushahidi RT @HeatherLeson: Time for #geowebchat about realtime satellite imagery

@vtcraghead 12:01pm I’ll be filling in for @mappingmashups – my background is in remote sensing and I formerly worked on the MODIS LC team . . . #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:01pm So this is a topic of great interest to me. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:02pm First up for the committee: How would you folks use imagery from within 6hrs (@MapBox’s stated turnaround) of an event? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:03pm And I’m curious about applications beyond the ones that have been mentioned in press like journalism and insurance. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:04pm FYI here’s some background info I’ve been collecting. gist.github.com/wboykinm/61589… I’ll add to it as we go. #geowebchat

@erikfriesen 12:05pm @vtcraghead @MapBox It’s been “big” in the press lately… but it will obviously been a boon to endeavors like @SkyTruth #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:05pm .@vtcraghead Most obviously, for disaster events! @MapBox #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:07pm I would substantially assist EMs/EMAs to have quasi real-time flooding / damage data etc. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:07pm .@AndrewShears The Disaster Charter has been live for awhile now – has anyone used imagery from it? qub.me/PLhII4 #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:08pm .@AndrewShears I mean does anyone have firsthand experience; I know it’s been used . . . #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:09pm .@vtcraghead (No, but I’ve now lost a few hundred future hours….. haha) #geowebchat

@rsimmon 12:09pm .@vtcraghead only to explain/illustrate after the fact earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards… #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:12pm I had access to imagery via the charter in the aftermath of hurricane Irene, but the turnaround was still 24 hours or so. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:13pm Isn’t Disaster Charter more focused on larger events? I’m thinking local EMs/EMAs that aren’t a blip on that radar. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:13pm I can think of problems that might have been alleviated by getting it faster, but then the holdup would have been on the ground. #geowebchat

@NeilGIS 12:13pm @vtcraghead Saw an old pic of Lake Memphremagog and spotted algae blooms. Not sure if tracking it would help, but now we could. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:14pm @NeilGIS Good point – time series is another great strength here. #geowebchat

@Moro_Cedric 12:14pm @vtcraghead From within 6hrs, the best is to share the sat imagery in KML format on the web (ie @ushahidi @Crowdmap) #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:15pm RT @HeatherLeson: .@vtcraghead @AndrewShears A reference from the Simulation bit.ly/1eqqxuP #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:16pm I don’t think TweetChat is working right… #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:16pm .@HeatherLeson @AndrewShears And Haiti is obviously one of the benchmarks here. What actionable happened btwn hrs 6 and 24? #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:16pm Has anyone ever seen protest size estimation based on sat images? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:17pm Hey, if Tweetchat isn’t working for anyone, give twitterfall a shot: qub.me/Ap0N0x #geowebchat

@jwass2000 12:18pm @vtcraghead Are there any privacy protections? Could I monitor neighbor’s yard for any suspicious digging or plants growing? #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:18pm @vtcraghead @AndrewShears tweetchat seems snappier to me, post-redesing, than it used to #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:18pm .@AndrewShears I believe that’s a big part of what @MapBox is marketing to. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:19pm .@jwass2000 Just now wishing that @kpomfret was on this chat. I get the sense legal issues aren’t fully hammered out. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:20pm @erictheise @vtcraghead May well be my connection. I’m out in the backwoods! #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:20pm .@vtcraghead @AndrewShears #geowebchat More about Samoa – UN (2012) working to decrease that time (long read PDF) – phtpacific.org/sites/default/…

@vtcraghead 12:22pm .@AndrewShears @mattmoehr No, but the national park service has been on that since ’95 at least: .qub.me/Qe5n23 #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:23pm You talking about DG first-look service? Esri and others will offer this. see ow.ly/nGEk9 starting around min 5. #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:24pm apparently that took like six days. i want (near) real-time estimates! #geowebchat @AndrewShears @vtcraghead

@vtcraghead 12:25pm .@michael_d_gould Indeed, which brings us to hardware vs. software; FirstLook has been around (since Irene at least) . . . #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:26pm .@mattmoehr @vtcraghead How politically charged (suddenly) would sat images be? Like Colin Powell’s Iraq pics…. #geowebchat

@NeilGIS 12:26pm @vtcraghead @HeatherLeson @AndrewShears Kinda what @mattmoehr said, could spot refugee camps and checkpoint lines as they form. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:26pm .@michael_d_gould so why is DG working with ESRI, @MapBox and others on this? Have they given up on “full stack”? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:27pm .@AndrewShears @mattmoehr I think the question of “authoritative view” would come up. #geowebchat

@Moro_Cedric 12:28pm @vtcraghead You can find Sat imagery in Real Time on VIRTUALOSUCC portal.gdacs.org/data/DataMapsa… #geowebchat @AndrewShears

@vtcraghead 12:28pm RT @kpomfret: New geospatial technologies r challenging traditional lines of what was OK and what was thought a privacy concern. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:28pm @vtcraghead uh, because services are the future. (?) #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:29pm .@AndrewShears @mattmoehr Like @wapo via @MapBox has one image but the NSA has another. Who does the public trust? #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:29pm A friend from MIT shared this headcount tool: bitbucket.org/iv/headcounter… #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:30pm .@HeatherLeson Very cool. You can see it dodging around on a few of them, but looks pretty accurate. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:31pm .@Moro_Cedric @AndrewShears Hoo boy. “VirtualOSOCC users can also request triggering of the International Charter” #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:31pm .@vtcraghead @mattmoehr and how long until the RNC has a satellite, DNC has one… suddenly science is politics a la polling #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:31pm #geowebchat MT @mattmoehr: .@vtcraghead @AndrewShears a debate re: “authority” in cartography? seems like nothing important changed, imo.

@mattmoehr 12:32pm @AndrewShears would they hire me? ;) #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:32pm .@mattmoehr @mattmoehr @AndrewShears Sure, but I don’t think it’s been tested yet in a real conflicting-imagery situation #geowebchat

@mattmoehr 12:33pm I for one feel totally inadequate in re: sat image processing. What are we teaching folks these day in GIS certificates? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:33pm .@AndrewShears @mattmoehr That there is a frightening thought, though poll head counts seems vaguely legitimate. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:35pm @michael_d_gould My sarcasm sensor is weak :) Why doesn’t DG provide the service? (They do, just not compellingly it seems). #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:35pm Barriers to getting imagery have been lowered due to the some work of @Digihums @hotosm @MapBox. #geowebchat (eg. digitalhumanitarians.com/where-to-volun…)

@wsvekla 12:35pm @AndrewShears @vtcraghead consider tension between remote sensing (observing from afar) and sensors on the ground, in devices. #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 12:36pm .@mattmoehr You could volunteer & learn with one of the @Digihums teams – digitalhumanitarians.com/where-to-volun… #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:36pm .@wsvekla @AndrewShears Project idea: link a video feed of every google glass onsite w/ realtime sat views :) #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:38pm So there’s a bit of a convo about business: What do DigitalGlobe and Astrium get out of this? Are they ceding markets? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:38pm Human Rights Watch is also looking for help IDing possible conflict frm chatter and imagery. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:38pm What about implications of this data for civil unrest, revolution, etc? Easier to suppress? Would Tahrir have been different? #geowebchat

@NeilGIS 12:39pm How quickly can go from imagery to data that matters? Will this be faster than ground reports for road washouts for example? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:39pm @vtcraghead business in general is moving away from download and keep, to subscribe and use. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:40pm RT @wsvekla: valuable for post-disaster recon, this was kind of approximated with linking of aerial photos with ground truth #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:40pm .@vtcraghead @wsvekla With that, you could reasonably 3d render the environment in (near) real-time. #creepy #geowebchat

@GPSBaby 12:41pm #geowebchat a key issue isn’t about speed of release its also about avoiding duplicated production – NGA/UN/NMA/OSM/MAPACTION ….

@vtcraghead 12:42pm .@NeilGIS Good point, and this rubs up against the work that FEMA & NGA do in the aftermath of a domestic disaster. #geowebchat

@spara 12:42pm Companies to watch in this space:

@AndrewShears 12:42pm .@michael_d_gould @vtcraghead ….at expense to customers/clients (nevermind rural folks with poor connect). See newest SimCity. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:42pm .@GPSBaby But the NGA is using different sensors :) #geowebchat

@razsc 12:42pm With almost real time sat imagery, what do we do with earlier versions. Will we need a git style archive for sat imagery? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:43pm .@razsc Whoa – tiled git. *furiously takes notes* #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:44pm .@AndrewShears @spara Yeah – you don’t hire Frank Warmerdam without being serious. #geowebchat

@erikfriesen 12:46pm @razsc geogit for raster data is an interesting thought. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:47pm So the satellite world is suddenly moving really fast – where does Landsat 8 fit in? or NASA’s EOS program generally? #geowebchat

@GPSBaby 12:47pm @vtcraghead not just about inputs its about outputs and too much duplication confuses use and authority ..#geowebchat

@wsvekla 12:47pm ok so side topic: what’s the current state of automated feature extraction? with vis spec, still talking human interpret right? #geowebchat

@spara 12:47pm @vtcraghead @AndrewShears Word from foocamp is that Planet Lab is building a microsat constellation #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:48pm .@wsvekla The @MapBox satellite team is doing some admirable work streamlining processing between sensors . . . #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:48pm @AndrewShears expense? everything has an expense, and there are myriad ways to pay. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:49pm .@wsvekla But to my knowledge we’re still looking at OBIA backed by human rules qub.me/42IUFT #geowebchat

@razsc 12:49pm @wsvekla from my experience automated feature extraction works well with text, visual is still very difficult #geowebchat

@wsvekla 12:49pm .@vtcraghead is that more about traditional applications of various bands, etc? veg cover, etc? #geowebchat

@vruba 12:49pm @vtcraghead I think that, among many other uses, EOS will remain indispensable as a free, high-reliability baseline. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:50pm .@michael_d_gould @AndrewShears To my point about NASA, does it make sense for gov to pay for this sort of thing? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:50pm @AndrewShears what about newest SimCity? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:51pm .@vruba The data consistency is important from the temporal perspective, but 250m pixels look antiquated now. #geowebchat

@rsimmon 12:51pm .@vtcraghead What they were designed for–long-term, global, calibrated measurements #geowebchat

@wsvekla 12:51pm @razsc yeah, my impression, too #geowebchat

@vruba 12:52pm @vtcraghead For a Tahrir Square situation, definitely. But for a news story about the weather, ge.ssec.wisc.edu/modis-today/in… is great. #geowebchat

@rsimmon 12:53pm @vtcraghead @vruba antiquated? not for global change: aerosols, ocean color, cloud properties #geowebchat

@rsimmon 12:54pm @vtcraghead BTW, I’m sure NASA would do high res if they could–forbidden in the Land Remote Sensing act #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:54pm .@rsimmon @vruba Even as processing power increases? Wouldn’t a 5m GCM be useful? #geowebchat

@GPSBaby 12:54pm The Chinese have great ambition with their new global landcover map and higher resolution satellites #geowebchat

@vruba 12:54pm @vtcraghead Plus, even for human-driven news, often you don’t know what you want until later — you need the “before” picture. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:55pm .@rsimmon Good to know – is there any reading on how commercial providers got around that? #geowebchat

@vruba 12:55pm @vtcraghead @rsimmon I think 5 m would be false precision for GCM. That’s below the scale of normal annual change! #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:57pm .@vruba @rsimmon Awww . . . no butterfly effect? :) #geowebchat

@rsimmon 12:57pm @vtcraghead DoD–they paid for Ikonos, OrbView, and QuickBird. #geowebchat

@rsimmon 12:58pm @vtcraghead Google “EnhancedView” & “contract” for specifics (half up front, commitment to buy data. *Lots* of data.) #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:58pm .@rsimmon The windy roads of defense and science politics bedraggle me. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:59pm Last Q as we wind down: Is there any downside to a split between satellite hardware & image-delivery services? #geowebchat

@vruba 12:59pm @vtcraghead @rsimmon I think EOS’s quality-not-quantity, collect-it-all approach fills a vital niche & is good for business. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 1:05pm Okay, thanks everyone for participating – I’ve added the links that came up to the reading list: qub.me/6F21Fd #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 1:06pm Tune in on August 20th at the same time for the return of @mappingmashups! #geowebchat

@HeatherLeson 1:20pm @vtcraghead thanks for hosting! #geowebchat

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