#geowebchat transcript, 17 September 2013: Diversity in geoweb communities


@mappingmashups Sep 17, 10:03am Today, noon PT, 3pm ET, 8pm BST: we’re talking about diversity on the #geoweb. Join the conversation on #geowebchat! mappingmashups.net/2013/09/16/nex…

@jgieseking Sep 17, 11:48am How do different kinds of diversity manifest (or fail to manifest) on the #geoweb? Tune into #geowebchat at 3pm US EST for the chat. I’m in!

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:01pm Hello everyone! Welcome to today’s #geowebchat! We’re talking about diversity on the geoweb.

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:02pm If you want to join the chat, use the hashtag #geowebchat in all your tweets! Or to ignore us, mute that hashtag in your twitter client.

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 12:02pm Hey #geowebchat! Looking forward to talking diversity today … great topic!

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:02pm I also suggest tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat as a handy way to follow along with #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 12:05pm Btw I also continue to collect #geowebchat posts for my PhD research. Check out informallearningonline.webs.com Msg me if you have concerns/comments

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:05pm There’s been interesting developments in the discussion of diversity in OpenStreetMap lately… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:06pm …such as @alyssapwright’s keynote at #sotm13 on diversity in #osm: slideshare.net/apw217/changin… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:07pm And #osm has a new diversity mailing list that I recommend everybody check out: lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diver… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:07pm There’s also @geographiliac ‘s recent paper. #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag Sep 17, 12:08pm @mappingmashups @alyssapwright Someone last week pointed out it is very similar to wikipedia diversity problems #geowebchat

@jgieseking Sep 17, 12:10pm @JacqInTheBooks I can’t imagine ethics concerns w tweet collections since all are catalogued by services & @librarycongress. :) #geowebchat

@ebrelsford Sep 17, 12:11pm Are there geoweb communities outside of #osm that are talking about diversity right now? #geowebchat

@jgieseking Sep 17, 12:11pm @Brobdingnag @mappingmashups @alyssapwright It’d be grt to jump into @FemTechNet / @crunkfeminists’ Wikipedia takeovers w #geowebchat frame.

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:13pm (Sorry all on #geowebchat, I’m a bit distracted in physical space right now… hope you all can get the conversation started yourselves!)

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:14pm I think diversity, maybe not by that title, is a fairly common interest in tech community right now. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:16pm Here’s @geographiliac’s paper @JessiBreen mentioned: link.springer.com/article/10.100… (paywall) #geowebchat (earlier version: floatingsheep.org/2012/07/sheepc…)

@spara Sep 17, 12:16pm So is this a gender thing, a philosophical thing, a political economy thing, a xxxxx thing, all of the aboev? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:17pm Also the great video of @geographiliac’s presentation from Sheep Camp on the topic: vimeo.com/44870758 #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:17pm @spara Gender is certainly an obvious one, but I think they all need addressing. #geowebchat

@spara Sep 17, 12:18pm @JessiBreen Agreed, anyone got a framework on how to approach the elephant? #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 12:21pm @JessiBreen Agree. More ques are asked re: diversity/equal representation (or lack of) in online communities. See it in edu too! #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:22pm @JacqInTheBooks Yes, this is not exclusively a geoweb thing, it’s evident in lot of expert communities. #geowebchat

@rastrau Sep 17, 12:22pm @JacqInTheBooks @JessiBreen Also very relevant re: democratisation potential (hype?) of #OGD and #opendata in general, imo. #geowebchat

@jgieseking Sep 17, 12:23pm @spara All of the above. The heteronormativity of “family”-based units in most census data is one appalling element of ++ #geowebchat

@jgieseking Sep 17, 12:23pm @spara ++ inequality that is a both philosophical & key to political economy. #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 12:23pm @spara @JessiBreen Do you think the diversity probs r understood sufficiently yet to develop frameworks on how to approach them? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:24pm @JacqInTheBooks @spara The recent OSM US meeting had some pretty damning data. I think there’s enough to start. #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 12:24pm @spara @JessiBreen i.e. why gaps exist? #geowebchat

@spara Sep 17, 12:26pm So could we agree that carving out spatial out of the larger diversity conversation is the thing to focus on? #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag Sep 17, 12:27pm @JacqInTheBooks @spara @JessiBreen This paper suggests some reasons why the gaps exist journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/… #geowebchat

@jgieseking Sep 17, 12:27pm @mappingmashups Thx for sharing @geographiliac’s #Gender + #GeoWeb paper–& #OA lack on much of our work highlights #geowebchat inequalities

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 12:27pm @Brobdingnag @spara @JessiBreen Thanks will check it out! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:28pm @spara Well, spatial’s the thing for us to focus on because this is #geowebchat! & helps us find new angles to address diversity issue.

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:29pm @mappingmashups Well, in the case of mapping, you’re working against a long history of a white guys only club. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:30pm But I also think the diversity problems of tech in general (like the Reagle paper @Brobdingnag shared) deeply warp the geoweb. #geowebchat

@spara Sep 17, 12:31pm I would hold Wild Bill Bunge as an exemplar of diversity in geography #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:31pm It’s been a bad few weeks for sexism in tech in general, with the #titstare incident, etc… actually, it’s always a bad week. #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag Sep 17, 12:33pm In the wikipedia gender gap people talk about how women have less freetime than men (are most OSM edits made in freetime?) #geowebchat

@AllFourPaws_SEA Sep 17, 12:34pm @JessiBreen Check out Marie Tharp for a counter example for marine mapping. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:34pm @AllFourPaws_SEA @JessiBreen Will do! #geowebchat

@AllFourPaws_SEA Sep 17, 12:37pm At yesterday’s #cyberGIS meeting Michael Goodchild commented on generation gap “can oldsters even recognize new developments?” #geowebchat

@AllFourPaws_SEA Sep 17, 12:38pm #geowebchat I would disagree with MG but it points to an interesting other possible lack of diversity

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:42pm (Hi everybody, I’m catching up on the #geowebchat tweets so far…)

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:43pm @mappingmashups Are we on the big screen this week? #geowebchat

@rdhyee Sep 17, 12:43pm @mappingmashups Is #geowebchat happening (more) synchronously right now?

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:44pm A link to Marie Tharp that @AllFourPaws_SEA mentioned: huffingtonpost.com/hali-felt/mari… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:45pm @JessiBreen Yes, I just popped you all up on the big screen at @stamen for the final 15 minutes. Make it good, #geowebchat!

@spara Sep 17, 12:45pm Marie Tharp’s bathymetry map is available via WMS #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:46pm @rdhyee Not sure if it’s happening more synchronously, or just erratically… was tweeting from a meeting during the first half #geowebchat

@neogeografen Sep 17, 12:47pm @Brobdingnag I think @pascal_n have some figures what time of the day/week most OSM editing take place #geowebchat

@AllFourPaws_SEA Sep 17, 12:48pm Great interview with Marie Tharp at aip.org/history/ohilis… #geowebchat Thanks for huffpost and WMS links

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:48pm @Brobdingnag That’s an interesting thought. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:49pm @AllFourPaws_SEA RE: the idea of “oldsters” getting involved: the elderly are overrepresented in volunteer contexts offline… #geowebchat

@jgieseking Sep 17, 12:49pm Who examines intersectionalities in #geography? @demonicground, G Pratt, & M Wright’s work are the best in my opinion. #geowebchat

@MapGoddess Sep 17, 12:52pm @mappingmashups including volunteering in technology related areas?? #geowebchat @AllFourPaws_SEA

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:53pm @MapGoddess No, I think not, primarily non-technical areas. But I wonder if that is changing? I don’t have any stats. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:53pm @mappingmashups @AllFourPaws_SEA I wonder what happens if you could account for differences in the quantity of freetime. #geowebchat

@AllFourPaws_SEA Sep 17, 12:54pm @MapGoddess @mappingmahsups #geowebchat A coming tidal wave of digital-savvy grannies could be a very powerful force.

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:55pm @JessiBreen It seems unlikely that amount of free time can explain 20:1 male to female contributor ratios… #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag Sep 17, 12:55pm We haven’t talked much about geographic diversity, are most OSM users from the US and GB? #geowebchat

@spara Sep 17, 12:56pm @Brobdingnag I thought they were Germans #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:56pm @Brobdingnag Not US and GB specifically (DE is near the top!), but certainly wealthier countries have greater representation. #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 12:56pm @Brobdingnag Also the issue of urban versus rural users #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 12:57pm @mappingmashups Not gender, but the age thing maybe. #geowebchat

@mhaklay Sep 17, 12:57pm Maybe it came up, but in case that you missed is – see the project by @lesewesen et al cartography.tuwien.ac.at/fem2map/ #geowebchat

@neogeografen Sep 17, 12:57pm @AllFourPaws_SEA FYI- #1 female mapper in OSM Denmark is a grandma (retired teacher) #geowebchat @MapGoddess

@spara Sep 17, 12:57pm @JacqInTheBooks @Brobdingnag I wonder if connectedness via the Internet correlates to density of OSM mapping #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:58pm Regarding other types of diversity: Here is well-developed OSM proj to map wheelchair accessibility: wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wheelmap #geowebchat

@AllFourPaws_SEA Sep 17, 12:58pm #geowebchat Countries where govt. digital data is free (US) vs where digital data is expensive (Europe)?

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 12:59pm One thing we didn’t touch on is whether diverse mappers make different maps. Marie Tharp reminds us: not necessarily #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 1:00pm @Brobdingnag @mappingmashups Depends on where is being mapped, doesn’t it? #geowebchat

@neogeografen Sep 17, 1:00pm @Brobdingnag Figures about how large OSM in diff. count. are a hint here osmstats.altogetherlost.com/index.php?item… #geowebchat – DE 2X nummer two daily contr.

@Brobdingnag Sep 17, 1:00pm Wonder what it would take for OSM to catch on the Global South. More People of Color, also just more people #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 1:00pm Unfortunately we’re already out of time in this #geowebchat! Sorry it was more scattered than usual. Will definitely return to this topic.

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 1:01pm But by all means, continue the conversation, everybody! #geowebchat

@spara Sep 17, 1:01pm More reading material to explore diversity, so good #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 1:01pm @spara @Brobdingnag I would suspect this has an impact, but also likely related with other issues as well, SES, age perhaps? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Sep 17, 1:02pm @Brobdingnag I’m interested to see what the change in editing tools in OSM (iD) does for participation. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Sep 17, 1:03pm Greetings from the Netherlands. Sorry I missed #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Sep 17, 1:03pm Next #geowebchat will be in 2 weeks, on Oct 1, same time. I think we’ll have a cartography topic in honor of #NACIS dev.nacis.org/index.cfm?x=2

@spara Sep 17, 1:03pm @JacqInTheBooks @Brobdingnag Lots of variables to consider – age, occupation, ethnicity, education, on and on #geowebchat

@spara Sep 17, 1:03pm @mappingmashups Label placement algorithms! #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Sep 17, 1:05pm @spara @Brobdingnag Yes, don’t think they can be considered in isolation from one another – very much interrelated #geowebchat

@enf Sep 17, 1:13pm @Brobdingnag Peak time for changeset submission seems to be 9pm in the time zone of the area being mapped #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/mvW5jnD55X

@pascal_n Sep 17, 1:32pm .@neogeografen @Brobdingnag you can also find some interesting stuff here: mdpi.com/2220-9964/1/2/… #OpenStreetMap #Activity #2012 #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Sep 17, 5:30pm “@JessiBreen: interested to see what iD does for #OSM participation. #geowebchat” It has to be a huge positive. Shows maturation of platform

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