#geowebchat transcript, 17 June 2014: Vector cartography part 1

@mappingmashups Jun 16, 10:26am Tomorrow on #geowebchat, let’s talk about vector cartography. @Mapbox GL, the new @googlemaps, #iOSmaps & more! Tue Jun 17, 12pm PDT.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 11:59am Hey everyone, it’s time for our bi-weekly #geowebchat. Today’s topic is vector maps, but I wonder if everyone’s busy watching #worldcup?

@lyzidiamond Jun 17, 12:00pm .@mappingmashups Oooh, vector maps! #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 17, 12:00pm .@mappingmashups that’s what two screens are for, one for #geowebchat, one for #WorldCup

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:00pm @lyzidiamond I know, right? But I’d rather have a decent chat about vector maps, so if #geowebchat is a ghost town I’ll bump it 2 weeks.

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:01pm @lyzidiamond @mappingmashups Oh wow, super-topical today Alan. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:02pm #geowebchat Does Google use tiled vectors, or have they completely broken out of the paradigm?

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:03pm @vtcraghead The tile paradigm? I don’t know. Anybody recall seeing how the data loads from a slow connection? #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:04pm i’m not much of a sports fan, tho have to say being in brooklyn bars during #WorldCup was pretty energizing; today i watch #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:05pm @mappingmashups Haven’t inspected yet. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:06pm But at this point with vector rendering, tiles aren’t that interesting… they’re just the transmission medium. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:06pm am i alone in thinking that new google vector maps are brittle; slow-loading, erratic, “rats, webGL encountered a problem”? #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:07pm Wouldn’t vector tiling also include generalization at different levels? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:08pm @spara Probably for optimization purposes, but hey – Google doesn’t care about processing limits, right? :) #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Jun 17, 12:08pm Do vector tiles allow us to move outside of the preset zooms that exist with raster tiling? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:10pm @spara True, even if there are no longer proper zoom levels, you would still want to generalize at various zooms. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:12pm @erictheise I haven’t had much trouble with them… but sometimes, yes. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:15pm they’re well-behaved on my iphone, @mappingmashups, but full-screen, clicks often queue up & ux is disturbingly unpredictable. #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:16pm Any critiques of Mapbox GL yet? #geowebchat

@pwramsey Jun 17, 12:17pm @spara There does appear to be a whole server side that goes undiscussed #geowebchat

@mapzen Jun 17, 12:17pm Want to experiment with vector tiles? Check out our new open/free OSM vector service: mapzen.com/vector #geowebchat

@mapmeld Jun 17, 12:18pm I get the GeoJSON vector tiles like OSM’s that crayonmap.herokuapp.com uses. MapBox is using protobuf which I don’t understand #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:19pm @pwramsey @spara Perhaps there could be some illumination to that end with MapboxGL? Or are they locked into tiled vectors? #geowebchat

@cartocalypse Jun 17, 12:20pm @lyzidiamond you could use the data to render any scale but you would probably pre-filter the data based on a target zoomlevel #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 12:20pm @pwramsey @spara we’re cutting simple vector tiles @mapzen w/postgis ST_SimplifyPreserveTopology by zoom: mapzen.com/vector #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:20pm @mapmeld The return of strong typing! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:21pm @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond The Mapbox Streets vectors are generalized at zooms lower than z14, but at 14 they have full detail #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:24pm For vector map details, @Mapbox has been blogging lots mapbox.com/blog/drawing-a… mapbox.com/blog/placing-l… mapbox.com/blog/text-sign… #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 12:25pm @mappingmashups @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond in my limited experience their z14 tiles can be too heavy – so many buildings at z14 #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Jun 17, 12:25pm isn’t mapboxgl ios only at the moment (for the public)? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:26pm RT @tmcw: @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond they’re always generalized to a zoom, otherwise osm overnoding would cripple speeds #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:28pm RT @npdoty: I’d say tiles are interesting as data sources: what gets sent, how is it represented, whence it came. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:31pm RT @spara: @mappingmashups @npdoty I think it’s interesting that the client is receiving data (shades of WFS, bite my tongue) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @tmcw: @colocarto @vtcraghead @pwramsey @spara vector renderers use the new style spec: github.com/mapbox/mapbox-… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @tmcw: @pwramsey the style spec is still very heavily under development – we opted for opening source early. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @npdoty: @lyzidiamond Yes! Arbitrary zoom levels, even down to the absurd 1:1, e.g. npdoty.name/onexactitude #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:33pm Hey everyone talking about vector maps, remember to include #geowebchat in your tweets so we can all follow the discussion

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:38pm @mappingmashups @spara @npdoty vector tiles are more data than png is, but they are definitely not anything like raw data #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:41pm @tmcw @spara @npdoty Yeah, a lot of selection goes into making the vector data tiles that will influence how they’re rendered #geowebchat

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:42pm @mappingmashups @spara @npdoty not to say there aren’t useful externalities. our reverse geocoder runs on vector tiles. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:42pm As @professorlemeza points out there are _all_ the bldgs at z14 but you can’t filter by area because the area field isn’t incl. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:43pm RT @tmcw: tiles: simplified for zoom, subsetted attributes, no invisible features, coord are relative to tile 0,0 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:50pm So, what new cartographic styles are made possible by vector mapping? Things like Burning Map: maps.stamen.com/burningmap/#12… #geowebchat

@katenesse Jun 17, 12:52pm Only in Chrome? RT @mappingmashups: What new cartographic styles enabled by vector mapping? Burning Map: maps.stamen.com/burningmap/#12… #geowebchat

@bgolder Jun 17, 12:54pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat vector tiles are easier to edit with spatial transformations. So having a 3D camera seems a bit easier.

@spara Jun 17, 12:55pm @mappingmashups I like that! Can be used to symbolize the fuzziness of a boundary. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:55pm @katenesse Well, Burning Map was made two years ago. I bet today we could’ve made it work on more browsers. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:57pm @bgolder Could you elaborate on this? I’m not following. #geowebchat

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:58pm @mappingmashups @bgolder pseudo-3d tilt-cam works well with gl, and label placement / sizing is much better than before #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:00pm Well, everyone, thanks for joining today’s semi-distracted #geowebchat. I’m sure this won’t be the last time we talk about vectors.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:01pm Today’s #geowebchat transcript will be posted here shortly: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/. Next chat will be July 1st, same time.

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:01pm @tmcw @mappingmashups #geowebchat think of the “aerial” views used by navigation software.

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:05pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat you can programmatically adjust the screen coordinates of geometry, so you can transform it based on a viewpoint

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:07pm @bgolder Ahh, I see. I was confused by the idea of “editing” them… but transforming and modifying vectors makes sense. #geowebchat

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:13pm #geowebchat I imagine that dynamic styles like Burning Map could be useful to show motion or activity, perhaps with real-time updates

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:38pm RT @michalmigurski: Half of cartography is in data: feature selection, generalization, layering. Lessons of vector tiles. #geowebchat

@woolie Jun 17, 1:41pm Need to set a reminder for next #geowebchat. Missed great discussion of vector tiles, which I’m glad to report are awesome.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:41pm RT @PetersonGIS: @michalmigurski But that’s not a lesson specifically of vector tiles: it’s always been half of cartography. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:42pm @woolie If you need a #geowebchat reminder, add this to your calendar program: webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 2:58pm @mappingmashups geom deformations & pixel shaders: vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.761… vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.759… #geowebchat

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