#geowebchat transcript, 4 November 2014: Diversity of those studying and doing the Geoweb


@mappingmashups Nov 04, 8:23am Today on #geowebchat: Diversity and the Geoweb, with @JessiBreen & @alogicalfallacy: mappingmashups.net/2014/10/31/nex… Special time: 2pm PST, 5pm EST

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 1:44pm Sprinting to West Sixth ahead of the start of #geowebchat!

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 1:53pm @JessiBreen Well, if you’re going to be at West Sixth… I’m heading to the Swiss. Let’s do this. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:01pm It’s 2:00. Should I or @JessiBreen say a few things to start this out? I’m actually most interested in what other have to say #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:02pm Hit it, @alogicalfallacy! #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 04, 2:03pm i’d welcome some introductory remarks, @JessiBreen & @alogicalfallacy. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:03pm I suppose, I really just wanted to bring into the open that as much as we must (and are) aware of gaps in data, there’s also … #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:04pm Issues with *who* is studying this and what that entails for what questions are asked and how we ask them. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:04pm It can be hard – as a big white dude form the suburbs – to ask this question without devolving into that useless ‘hand-wringing’ #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:05pm I’m hoping we can generate a discussion on how we can avoid exclusion in the field and encourage multiple voices. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:05pm @JessiBreen – any thoughts to add? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:07pm .@alogicalfallacy Kind of a funny question, at least it is for me, since the “who” of the geoweb is so prominent in scholarship. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:07pm @JessiBreen Well, that’s what I mean. We talk about who constitutes the data, but not always about who does the research. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:09pm .@alogicalfallacy It’s honestly a topic I hadn’t really considered until you brought it up, but it seems obvious. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:11pm Yeah, I mean @geographiliac has done some (excellent) work on related topics. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:12pm So, who is here for #geowebchat?

@avatarr8 Nov 04, 2:13pm @JessiBreen @alogicalfallacy do you feel there are dimensions of geoweb limiting diversity beyond the bigger issues of tech #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:13pm Hi @JessiBreen and @alogicalfallacy I’m here in #geowebchat I just haven’t had anything useful to add yet

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:14pm .@avatarr8 That’s sort of the tricky question, right? I’m not sure I have any better answer than the folks at OSM offer. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:15pm @avatarr8 @JessiBreen That’s part of what bothers me – as we head towards ‘tech’ do we all become tech-bros? I’d prefer not. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:15pm I don’t feel like I’m being actively limited from the discussion on the geoweb, in fact quite the opposite. But… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:15pm I do notice that there aren’t usually a whole lot of women around. At least not nearly as many as there are men. #geowebchat

@avatarr8 Nov 04, 2:17pm i know the context of the academic discipline of geography, where to me, it seems white men are steered towards computation #geowebchat …

@erictheise Nov 04, 2:17pm fashionable to bring up detroit geographical expedition (qub.me/oCWbpt) but does that model translate to geoweb? #geowebchat

@MapGoddess Nov 04, 2:18pm @JessiBreen *lurking* #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:18pm @erictheise or even some of the excellent work done in PPGIS in the past… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:18pm @erictheise I have no idea how we would translate that to the geoweb, but I like it! #geowebchat

@avatarr8 Nov 04, 2:18pm ..and its assumed women and people of color will do more qualitative, ethnographic work. Though obviously not universally. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:20pm @avatarr8 I come from a very human department, so that’s not my personal experience, but that is what AAG looks like. #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:21pm it sounds like a convergence of effects from the tech community’s gender exclusion and geography’s gendered division.. #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:21pm are those two separate factors #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:22pm @_C_Davis It’s an interesting idea, certainly. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:22pm @_C_Davis So last GWC had a discussion on pragmatic vs. esoteric, applied vs. theory, etc. But, diversity issue present in both. #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:23pm @JessiBreen do you see the same humaneness extend to undergrad’s headed to professional positions (not meant as loaded question) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:24pm @_C_Davis Not sure I understand the question. #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:24pm @alogicalfallacy right, but i wonder if with two distinct factors there are multiple available strategies to intervene #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 2:25pm @JessiBreen At least in critical geoweb research, there are lots of important women publishing key works. #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:25pm @JessiBreen you were saying that given the human geog focus of the dept, that you haven’t felt a channeling toward qual/eth work #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 04, 2:26pm mobile tech should enable community data gathering, lead to action & research, @JessiBreen, subversive use for @AmigoCloud app #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:26pm @JessiBreen I wondered if that support for women in geoweb was as present for undergrads not headed toward academe #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:27pm @_C_Davis My perspective on the undergrads is skewed. I teach GIS. :) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 2:28pm @JessiBreen At risk of leaving some out: @re_sieber @agaleszczynski @geographiliac N. Schuurman, M-P Kwan, S. Elwood, W. Lin. #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:29pm @JessiBreen =) fair. others, do we equally suggest to young women in our departments that they pursue prof geoweb positions? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:29pm In the MS program @bricker and I have, we have 4 students who aren’t white-men out of 16. Most are first gen college, though. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:29pm @mappingmashups I couldn’t pull up enough of their Twitter handles to do it justice. #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:30pm @mappingmashups I think you’re well right about key figures, but I think there is a big gender gap amongst non-key figures #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:31pm @mappingmashups That’s the thing. I don’t see the geoweb field excluding women and minorities… #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:31pm @JessiBreen @mappingmashups Definitely not ‘exclude,’ but I do see a shift happening as we go more tech-y. #geowebchat

@BNKetti Nov 04, 2:31pm @MapGoddess @JessiBreen also lurking #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:31pm …There just aren’t an equality of numbers. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:32pm @JessiBreen @mappingmashups Not quite said right. I guess I just have a worry we get subsumed into larger SV cultural problems. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:33pm @_C_Davis @mappingmashups Right! I have excellent role models to look up to, but not a lot of colleagues at my level. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:34pm @_C_Davis @mappingmashups That was stated poorly, not a lot of colleagues at my level who aren’t white men. #geowebchat

@bricker Nov 04, 2:35pm #geowebchat this blog post is relevant to this discussion. replace GoPro with ArcGIS and Polaroid cube with mapbox? victoriakirst.com/?p=1852

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:37pm @bricker so, how do we ‘sell’ it better? #geowebchat

@hamhandedly Nov 04, 2:37pm I wonder if the gendered divide in some tech circles (boxing women into design rather than dev) is also happening in geoweb #geowebchat

@hamhandedly Nov 04, 2:38pm Oh and hey everybody #firsttimecallerlongtimelurker #geowebchat

@bricker Nov 04, 2:38pm @alogicalfallacy #geowebchat how was it sold to you? Or was it?

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 2:38pm @alogicalfallacy “Subsumed into SV cultural probs”.. you mean as demographics of geoweb research mirrors that of geoweb makers? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:39pm @hamhandedly That women work in crit GIS instead of more technical parts of the field? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:40pm @mappingmashups Sort of. Comes in part from discn at last GWC about shifting composition of GWC itself. who we are, what we do. #geowebchat

@eknalprev Nov 04, 2:40pm Isn’t the future bright? At least you have goldieblox.com in the US. Start at the root. At uni level its too late #geowebchat

@hamhandedly Nov 04, 2:41pm @JessiBreen that and cartographic design #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:41pm @bricker I came from industry cuz I thought iPhones were neat and capitalism was bad. Not sure I was ‘sold’ geoweb specifically. #geowebchat

@bricker Nov 04, 2:41pm @alogicalfallacy #geowebchat @geographiliac work displayed how male “needs” are mapped. Frame how needs can be met with map to “sell” it.

@bricker Nov 04, 2:42pm @alogicalfallacy #geowebchat Did anyone grow up knowing they were going to be a geographer/geoweb person when they grew up?

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:42pm @eknalprev So it’s a larger problem of a shortage of women in STEM? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:43pm @bricker @CraigMDalton did. Just ask him. :) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:43pm @bricker @alogicalfallacy Ha! No. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:46pm @JessiBreen @bricker But seriously, we’re a relatively new sub-field/tribe/whatever, due to tech, etc. Why pertinent to ask now. #geowebchat

@bricker Nov 04, 2:46pm @eknalprev #geowebchat I don’t think university level is too late! (that’s when I found GIS! or GIS found me?) @frostburgstate

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:46pm @bricker which begs a question of who we recruit from where (intellectual domains) and also who/how we retain/promote/encourage #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:47pm @bricker Now you’ve got me picturing my colleagues as very nerdy children. Born geographers! :) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:48pm @bricker @alogicalfallacy Didn’t know I was a geographer until it was pointed out that what I studied wasn’t poli sci. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:48pm @bricker @eknalprev @frostburgstate We’ve talked a bit about this, so I’m setting @bricker up, but how were you ‘sold’ geoweb? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:50pm So, if it’s about how we ‘find’ geoweb, is that changing and does it matter if it does? #geowebchat

@eknalprev Nov 04, 2:50pm @bricker @JessiBreen GIS is tech and geoweb follows the demographic of tech. I don’t see the niche 4 geo. #geowebchat

@avatarr8 Nov 04, 2:52pm wonder if as true in other disciplines/fields: planning and sciences that use a lot of GIS seem more diverse, but not as in to #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:52pm @eknalprev @bricker @JessiBreen What do you mean by “niche 4 geo?” #geowebchat

@eknalprev Nov 04, 2:53pm @alogicalfallacy @bricker @JessiBreen whether geoweb has a different gender imbalance then elsewhere in tech. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:54pm @eknalprev @alogicalfallacy @bricker That’s an interesting question. I see a survey coming… #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:54pm @eknalprev @bricker @JessiBreen but GIS isn’t only tech; it’s tech and theory, which brings additional problems & interventions #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:56pm @_C_Davis @eknalprev @bricker But GIS is also gateway to maps! Is there research that liking maps as a kid is gendered? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 2:56pm Anyone with exciting final thoughts? I do like the idea of a survey @JessiBreen #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:57pm @foszterface #geowebchat with an @WestSixth IPA. It’s been nice!

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 2:58pm quick plug for AAG session looking at some of this: /Social Justice and GIS: Past, Present, and Future/ I can forward details #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:58pm @alogicalfallacy Uh oh. Did I just volunteer to do more work?!? @mattzook is gonna kill me. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 2:58pm @alogicalfallacy @JessiBreen There’s the research about sex diffs in spatial cognition, but not “liking maps as a kid” I think #geowebchat

@eknalprev Nov 04, 2:58pm @_C_Davis geoweb & GIS have a whiff of coding/ modelling which apparently scares girls that did not grow up with goldiblox :) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:59pm @mappingmashups @alogicalfallacy I took GIS in grad school due to an unhealthy fascination with Nat Geo maps as a kid. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 2:59pm @eknalprev @_C_Davis Meh. Not sure I buy that. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 3:00pm @eknalprev @_C_Davis Geoweb & GIS have /been designed with/ a whiff of coding/modelling… #geowebchat

@avatarr8 Nov 04, 3:00pm interested that we talked mostly about gender (important!), w/out much on other forms of difference in geoweb. maybe for future #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 3:00pm @eknalprev @_C_Davis … which apparently scares girls /who have been told growing up to think that they’re not good at it/ #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 3:01pm @JessiBreen – any closing thoughts? #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 3:01pm @mappingmashups @eknalprev or encourages instructors not to give women their due support in pursuing them. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 3:01pm Well first off, thanks everyone! Including all you lurkers out there. :) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 3:02pm @avatarr8 I’ll take the blame there. Should have been more broad. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 3:02pm @avatarr8 Indeed. Lack of other kinds of diversity & difference is at least as bad in #geoweb making and geoweb research #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 3:02pm @avatarr8 next time? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 04, 3:02pm @JessiBreen @avatarr8 I don’t think it’s ‘blame,’ just an interesting aspect. Can’t do everything in an hour. :) #geowebchat

@MapGoddess Nov 04, 3:03pm .#geowebchat plug for Feminist Geography Conference: venue for further discussion? www4.uwm.edu/letsci/confere…

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 3:03pm Geoweb! Woot! #geowebchat

@eknalprev Nov 04, 3:03pm @mappingmashups right so. Despite good efforts we’re still fighting old fashioned role models. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 3:04pm @JessiBreen @alogicalfallacy Do we want to return to this topic at next #geowebchat? Maybe take on “diversity beyond gender” or something?

@JessiBreen Nov 04, 3:04pm @mappingmashups @alogicalfallacy We could do that! Ok, gotta go work on bikes! Thanks everybody! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 3:05pm Also, #geowebchat attendees, what do you think about this different time? Better for you? I know it’s getting late in Europe…

@avatarr8 Nov 04, 3:05pm thanks @JessiBreen and @alogicalfallacy for hosting #geowebchat !

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 3:05pm @JessiBreen fun! thanks for organizing! (and @alogicalfallacy) #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 04, 3:06pm @mappingmashups Less good for me, but not prohibitive #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 3:06pm Yes, thanks so much to @alogicalfallacy and @JessiBreen for guest hosting! #geowebchat

@eknalprev Nov 04, 3:06pm Thanks #geowebchat next time at the old time slot please this was way past my bed-time-zone :)

@erictheise Nov 04, 3:14pm prefer usual time, @mappingmashups; pavlovian thoughts of #geowebchat when sf’s air raid siren sounds, & lunchtime’s generally clear.

@agaleszczynski Nov 04, 11:06pm #geowebchat is at 10pm for me so too late to join in but my reflection is that this onus on counting how many women we have misses the point

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