#geowebchat transcript, 18 November 2014: Diversity on the geoweb part 2


@mappingmashups Nov 18, 10:41am Today on #geowebchat (special time: 2pm PST 5pm EST) part 2 of our diversity discussion: mappingmashups.net/2014/11/04/geo… Everyone welcome!

@JessiBreen Nov 18, 2:01pm I’m here! #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:05pm Is it time to begin? @JessiBreen @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:05pm Welcome to #geowebchat everyone! This special time is throwing me off, too!

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:06pm Every time is special with #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:06pm Last time on #geowebchat we had @alogicalfallacy and @JessiBreen lead a chat about diversity of geoweb research: mappingmashups.net/2014/11/04/geo…

@erictheise Nov 18, 2:06pm more distracted than usual today (prepping for a @gisday talk tomorrow) but keeping an eye on #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:07pm In the prev #geowebchat we talked about gender balance in #geoweb research, but this time we wanted to talk about other kinds of difference.

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:07pm @mappingmashups Hi all! First time on #geowebchat (although I read transcripts occasionally)

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:08pm Joining #geowebchat re diversity – part 2

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:10pm I hope this #geowebchat silence is indicative of ppl reading last time’s transcript! But even if you haven’t read it, please join in!

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:11pm It’s also a hard topic to broach, so perhaps I can begin with a sincere, but necessarily problematic, question: #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:11pm I’ve scanned through the diversity part 1 transcript – really interesting convo! #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:11pm Quite honestly, is there anyone who doesn’t identify as white participating in #geowebchat today?

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:13pm @mappingmashups
I notice things like what3words.com that are offered as global solutions often very west/English focus #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:13pm @alogicalfallacy I am pretty much the eternal unicorn in these kinds of discussions – queer, indigenous, female-id’d #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:13pm 1 #geowebchat Q: does focus on improving gender balance make space for other diversity efforts? Can one kind of diversity stand in for all?

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:14pm @ZDFrieda @alogicalfallacy Welcome unicorn! #geowebchat

@PetersonGIS Nov 18, 2:15pm @bondaharper Yes, and here’s a solution that uses numbers. Much more universal: quickfindnumbers.com/get-your-quick… #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:15pm @mappingmashups diversity begets diversity. Supportive environments (like Maptime!) seem to be more diverse than formal groups #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:16pm I admire pipeline orgs diversifying tech along many diff lines & would <3 if GIS/mapping communities had similar initiatives #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:16pm @bondaharper @mappingmashups Maptime also has a lower barrier for entry (just showing up) than, say, a lot of research labs. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:17pm @ZDFrieda Do you see any immediate openings as to how? I’m unfamiliar with pipeline orgs. #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:18pm Maptime is great! As w/other areas of tech, tho, imho diversity really begins with *who* is in the founder’s group/convos #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:18pm @alogicalfallacy @mappingmashups good point. I think low barrier of entry is good for building interest (just not for hiring) #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:20pm @bondaharper @mappingmashups I’d agree! And you also have to start somewhere. I also agree with @ZDFrieda that it’s abt framers #geowebchat

@mapperz Nov 18, 2:20pm @mappingmashups 50/50 in GIS at work #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:20pm @alogicalfallacy Pipeline orgs like @BlackGirlsCode develop tech with/for marginalized communities as part of their core mission #geowebchat

@BobGradeck Nov 18, 2:21pm #geowebchat where you hold meetings and how you spread the word also matters for diversity in events.

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:21pm @mappingmashups #GeoWebChat Was there any chat last time about ‘other than grass roots’ ways to encourage different diversities in Geo?

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:22pm @mapperz 50/50 gender balance? #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:22pm @BobGradeck yes! I have found transit accessible helps a lot to get a more diverse group (both economic and race) #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:22pm @AngharadStone @mappingmashups Not that I recall, can you expand on ‘other than grass roots’? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:22pm @alogicalfallacy Nope but I am female (do I get a point?!) #GeoWebChat

@erictheise Nov 18, 2:24pm worth mentioning, @ZDFrieda, is conference outreach via travel scholarships, e.g., @sotmus & @foss4g (particularly @RhoBott) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:24pm @mapperz Does your workplace have any initiatives in place that resulted in successful workplace diversity? Or was it luck? #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:24pm Agreed, @BobGradeck! Hack/maker spaces for women and people of color in/near SF are also great spaces for + diversity at events #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:26pm @alogicalfallacy @mappingmashups Grass roots – Early interest (school years) have a high impact on life/career choices later #GeoWebChat

@avatarr8 Nov 18, 2:27pm clearly my preoccupation, but how GIS is taught in higher ed (labs, examples, projects) seems like a place for intervention #geowebchat

@mapperz Nov 18, 2:27pm @mappingmashups it works & diversity in Canada is widely known & work has good diversity across the company #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:28pm @avatarr8 Makes sense to me. Seems like a good chance to engage people from different cultures via what projects/data are used. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:29pm The M.S. @bricker and I run is fairly imbalanced this year. I’m hopeful for it to get better, but I worry that level is too late #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:29pm It’s also worth noting ‘geoweb’ is an english term; our conversations are in english; our tech is, etc… #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:30pm @avatarr8 I would change that engagement is needed earlier than higher ed – engage the possibilities of geog and it #GeoWebChat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:31pm @AngharadStone @avatarr8 This parallels some conversation from last time – for many of us, we discovered ‘geoweb’ in higher ed #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:32pm @avatarr8 @bondaharper yes, the entire K-grad education system seems ripe for reform re diversity in STEM related subjects #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Nov 18, 2:32pm I JUST wrote a blog post on this (bit.ly/geo-edu), but academia could be more honest about the field and prepare better. #geowebchat

@BobGradeck Nov 18, 2:32pm @ZDFrieda #geowebchat holding events in marginalized communities a great way to get people out of their comfort zone

@avatarr8 Nov 18, 2:33pm @AngharadStone for sure! at all levels! we have a lot more autonomy at the university level though #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:33pm @ZDFrieda @avatarr8 @bondaharper sorry what is K-grad? #GeoWebChat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:33pm @alogicalfallacy @AngharadStone @avatarr8 This approach might exclude those who have higher challenges in accessing higher ed #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Nov 18, 2:33pm Some folks in #maptime have been talking about economics, how we ask attendees to bring laptops, does that leave people out? #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:34pm @AngharadStone @avatarr8 @bondaharper Shorthand for kindergarden through grad school #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 18, 2:34pm think we’re okay on ‘geoweb’, @alogicalfallacy. #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/eBQAWs2YpB

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:35pm .@alogicalfallacy Right, English is the lingua franca in the tech world _and_ in academia. And, mostly, in #maptime… so far. #geowebchat

@avatarr8 Nov 18, 2:36pm @lyzidiamond yes. especially younger people I imagine. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:36pm .@alogicalfallacy Although some of our best geoweb scholars (say, @Geodoc31 for example) work in other languages too. #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:37pm @lyzidiamond I would say so – Android mapping might be easier in terms of device access for marginalized folks #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Nov 18, 2:37pm .@ZDFrieda Or, we could host #maptime events in public libraries! #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:39pm @mappingmashups @alogicalfallacy I do see a lot of resources for thing like QGIS in other languages, but not so much web/server #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:40pm As an aside while we’re talking about English dominance on #geowebchat, a link to the Simple English @Wikipedia: simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:40pm Without trying to sound like a curmudgeon, I’m a hesitant to embrace @lyzidiamond’s seeming espousal of “Maptime” as solution. #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Nov 18, 2:40pm @alogicalfallacy A solution to what? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:42pm @lyzidiamond Blog post suggests bringing into classrom, tweets today tout it, etc. It’s cool, you promote it. I’m more hesitant. #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Nov 18, 2:42pm @alogicalfallacy Have you ever been? What are your qualms? #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:43pm @avatarr8 @lyzidiamond I think encouraging sharing laptops helps. Also use of whiteboards is great for collaboration #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:44pm @alogicalfallacy @lyzidiamond agreed, do map workshops in schools and already have 14yr olds telling me they “can’t do maps” #GeoWebChat

@lyzidiamond Nov 18, 2:44pm @sadbumblebee @ZDFrieda This is a common thing we talk about in @codeforamerica, particularly reaching vulnerable populations #geowebchat

@avatarr8 Nov 18, 2:44pm curious if those who’ve been at this longer see change in people mapping w/tech moves online (away from expensive GIS licenses?) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:45pm RT @drewdaraabrams: I assume a whole lot of OSM work happens in German and I’m completely unaware of it #geowebchat

@PetersonGIS Nov 18, 2:45pm Ensure labels in other languages aren’t empty boxes by using a typeface that supports many character sets #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/hO9OneQjGm

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:46pm @mappingmashups @drewdaraabrams It does. I was just looking for some german colleague’s twitter accounts. Couldn’t find them sad #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:47pm @avatarr8 Strangely no, most FOSS things I have been to are VERY white male dominated “bedroom” programmers #GeoWebChat

@Taconic_Musings Nov 18, 2:47pm @AngharadStone @alogicalfallacy @lyzidiamond the Finnish apparently agree with @lyzidiamond #GeoWebChat innovativelearning.co.uk/2014/11/11/fin…

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:48pm @Taconic_Musings @AngharadStone @lyzidiamond @lyzidiamond Who would disagree with that? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:48pm @AngharadStone @avatarr8 But as @bondaharper points out, many of those FOSS nerds are working in other languages. #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:48pm @avatarr8 definitely on economic side. I’ve seen students with few resources put together impressive apps/web tools. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:49pm @lyzidiamond No qualms, it’s great. I’m simply not ready to promote it as a fix to endemic, structural issues. #geowebchat

@BobGradeck Nov 18, 2:49pm #geowebchat curious to know what technology or approaches are best for visually impaired.

@avatarr8 Nov 18, 2:49pm @AngharadStone interesting. I know 1 critique of things like PPGIS was always how expensive/inaccessible the tech was. #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 2:50pm Diversities mentioned so far – gender, age, economic, education, language, abilism – race hasn’t featured very much in #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:51pm @Taconic_Musings @alogicalfallacy @lyzidiamond I am thrill that UK edu now has demonstration of GIS in learning age 11 to 18 #GeoWebChat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:51pm @BobGradeck Very good question. @accessgeo and I talked about that a few times at @MaptimeSF. Need maps be inherently visual? #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:51pm @BobGradeck for getting those groups interested in geo or to serve them better? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:51pm @ZDFrieda It’s a difficult topic to tackle. I tried to prompt it earlier, but drifted away #elephantintheroom #geowebchat

@drewdaraabrams Nov 18, 2:52pm @BobGradeck a friend of mine runs a lab at UMaine researching geo-tech for blind and visually impaired: vemilab.us #geowebchat

@BobGradeck Nov 18, 2:53pm @alogicalfallacy @lyzidiamond those approaches can help open eyes to value of different models and organize those seeking change #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:53pm Where is @JessiBreen by the way? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 18, 2:54pm @alogicalfallacy I’m right here! #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 2:54pm @alogicalfallacy @ZDFrieda @mappingmashups While we are talking about difference – it’s the middle of night over here! #GeoWebChat

@BobGradeck Nov 18, 2:54pm @bondaharper serve them better. Have a friend I’d like to work with more effectively but he is losing his vision #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:55pm @alogicalfallacy @ZDFrieda I think mentors from a similar background help a lot to engage various races/cultures #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 18, 2:55pm @AngharadStone @alogicalfallacy @ZDFrieda @mappingmashups My fault! I have class during the regular time. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:56pm @bondaharper @ZDFrieda I’d agree – but how do you find the mentors? It’s a chicken and egg thing in some sense. :( #geowebchat

@avatarr8 Nov 18, 2:56pm @ZDFrieda mhm. where I was starting to go with PPGIS. lots of maps of communities of color being made. produced from/by them? #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:57pm @BobGradeck @bondaharper I have been recently *looking* at Braille maps, but I know very little about them. Intriguing quesiton #geowebchat

@PetersonGIS Nov 18, 2:58pm I just had a question about metric units in QGIS. Someone wants to know if there’s a QGIS with imperial units #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 2:58pm We’re approaching 3 pm PST, by the by. I’ll be around for a bit more, though. Have to finish this beer. #geowebchat

@bondaharper Nov 18, 2:59pm @alogicalfallacy @ZDFrieda also, my view may be skewed coming from a big/multicultural city. Harder in small cities #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 2:59pm .@alogicalfallacy Yup, we’re getting close to the end of this #geowebchat. But certainly not the last time we’ll engage with this topic.

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 3:00pm @bondaharper @ZDFrieda Completely. Most of my students are first-gen college, but mostly white and male. Small city #geowebchat

@ZDFrieda Nov 18, 3:01pm Maybe next diversity #geowebchat we can invite women/POC/LGBTQ centered pipeline orgs in to join us before it begins :)

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 3:01pm I’m open to suggestions for best way to continue our #geowebchat diversity chat. What framing is most useful? How should we ask these Qs?

@JessiBreen Nov 18, 3:01pm @ZDFriedaThat would be awesome! #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 18, 3:02pm I’m off to the bike shop. Great #geowebchat!

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 3:03pm @mappingmashups Honestly, the ability to have more than 140 characters would make me really happy. :D #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 3:03pm @ZDFrieda Absolutely. I am usually quite bad about pre-inviting relevant people to most of our topics. :( #geowebchat

@kerynnisa Nov 18, 3:03pm @alogicalfallacy I’m Southeast Asian (so I guess I’m brown?). Was introduced to GIS by a white prof back home… #geowebchat (1/2)

@bondaharper Nov 18, 3:03pm @PetersonGIS sounds like they come from a CAD background. I’ve got 2 icons for AutoCAD (imperial and metric) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 3:04pm .@alogicalfallacy Yes, twitter is not ideal for these discussions. Where should this conversation happen? Where can we redirect? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 3:06pm Also, for the next #geowebchat (Dec 2) we will switch back to regular time 12pm (PST), which is better for Europe & West Africa. Sorry Asia.

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 3:07pm @mappingmashups @alogicalfallacy I agree 140 char is not good BUT I would never have found #GeoWebChat if wasn’t on Twitter

@avatarr8 Nov 18, 3:07pm @alogicalfallacy @mappingmashups more like 129 #geowebchat takes ups 11 already.

@spara Nov 18, 3:08pm @mappingmashups There’s a general lack of diversity of map topics, most seem to come from public data. No microlevel studies #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 3:10pm .@opendna @alogicalfallacy There is a geoweb @zotero group! zotero.org/groups/geoweb/ Has lots of critical/social stuff in there. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 3:12pm For longer-form geoweb discussions, we could use the geoweb-r mailing list: groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/… #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 18, 3:12pm @AngharadStone @mappingmashups Perhaps it’s just my tendency towards ponderously long sentences that makes 140 chars so daunting #geowebchat

@freyfogle Nov 18, 3:20pm @bondaharper @mappingmashups not to jump in, but w3w is available in 20+ languages including many non-Western languages #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 18, 3:20pm #GeoWebChat Right I’m off to bed – Happy #GISDay everyone!

@prestonrhea Nov 18, 3:21pm @lyzidiamond @sadbumblebee @ZDFrieda @codeforamerica try this cool #discotech exercise secure.flickr.com/photos/preston… by @geoffhing #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 3:30pm Ouch! MT @JeremyCrampton: Eval by grad student 2 yrs ago. [...] It’s unflattering <gulp> but what we hear pic.twitter.com/PsZX3vtW9r #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 18, 5:23pm RT @OpenCCE: This is a question to raise at #Tchat tomorrow, 7pm! @geog_design @mapperz #Tchat @WPDiversity #DiversityIsStrength #geowebchat

@aimandel Nov 18, 10:39pm @PetersonGIS Any particular Imperial? 1.Project Properties has Feet, Nautical Miles, 2.#QGIS measures in set CRS/SRS/Proj units #geowebchat

@_C_Davis Nov 20, 1:36pm #geowebchat in re: diversity in geoweb, @AustinSeraphin @jamestyack make the point that visualizations should include text for vis impaired

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