#geowebchat transcript, 5 May 2015: How can newbies contribute productively to humanitarian mapping?


@mappingmashups May 05, 8:43am Today on #geowebchat: how can newbies contribute meaningfully to #CrisisMapping? Join us 12pm PDT (Tue May 5) More: gis.blog.ryerson.ca/2015/05/04/not…

@erikfriesen May 05, 8:45am @mappingmashups perfect timing! Going to be helping some newbies @SMU get started w crisis mapping tonight #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 10:49am Today’s #geowebchat: Humanitarian mapping & #NepalEarthquake: Join us at 12pm PT, 19:00 UTC, Tue May 5. #Map4Nepal #EqResponseNp cc @hotosm

@RussellDeffner May 05, 11:31am Looking forward to the #geowebchat regarding mapping for #NepalEarthquake I am part of the wonderfully amazing @hotosm community.

@mappingmashups May 05, 11:53am @danielpunkass Hey Daniel, we’re about to have a twitter chat about newbies & Nepal mapping. Maybe join & share your experience? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 11:54am #gistribe: you may want to join our #geowebchat about Nepal humanitarian mapping, starting in a few minutes…

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:00pm Hi everyone! Welcome to our monthly #geowebchat. We’re talking about humanitarian mapping in Nepal: how can newbies contribute productively?

@jgVisov May 05, 12:01pm Hello! RT @mappingmashups #gistribe: you may want to join our #geowebchat about Nepal humanitarian mapping, starting in a few minutes…

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:01pm As always, if you want to follow along with #geowebchat, try a tool like tweetchat.com. To ignore us, mute the hashtag.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:03pm .@jgVisov Welcome to #geowebchat! As we get started, who has experience to share either leading or participating in #Map4Nepal mapathons?

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:04pm To get the discussion started, @ClausRinner wrote this blog post about his experiences: gis.blog.ryerson.ca/2015/05/04/not… #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:06pm Some stats about newbies in Nepal mapping osm.townsendjennings.com/nepal/ #geowebchat “2,876 of these mappers are new to OpenStreetMap”

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:06pm A lot of #maptime chapters have held @hotosm #Map4Nepal mapathons in the last week, anyone attend one of those? #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:06pm @mappingmashups Thanks for inviting me. As a newbie trying to get into it, basic mapping skills are well covered. Issues seem #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:07pm @neogeografen Good point. Many people are new to OSM in general, not just @hotosm tasks. Are HOT tasks a good intro to OSM? #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:07pm @mappingmashups Naively going to the OSMTM many of the tasks listed state they are suited for advanced mappers. Hard to find #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:08pm @mappingmashups Hi all! We had a Nepal mapathon at work. All were new to OSM except myself and leader. #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:08pm @mappingmashups appropriate starter tasks that a newb would feel comfortable doing, and know it’s being done right. #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:09pm @mappingmashups Newbies seem to want to do it right. Helps to sit with an experienced user and watch for awhile #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:10pm @danielpunkass Because @ClausRinner’s experience was similar: his group had lots of GIS experience, but less OSM experience #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:10pm @mappingmashups A little of both, I had some basic understanding of mapping tech, intros filled gaps. Hangup is getting to work. #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:10pm Starting with OSM is sometimes difficult though, but they first should get to know how stuffs work. #geowebchat twitter.com/mappingmashups…

@neogeografen May 05, 12:11pm @mappingmashups HOT TM learning on your own not good (lots of GIS lingo like TMS)- mapping parties is the way to go #geowebchat @hotosm

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:11pm @mappingmashups Something e.g. Mechanical Turk jobs tend to do well is show one clear example of a successful task execution. #geowebchat

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:11pm #geowebchat @TheMissingMaps Newbies have already making significant contribution in Nepal via HOT Tasking Manager.

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:11pm @mappingmashups In the case e.g. of “random task” failure, it may be because there are no undone tiles left. But that’s common. #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:11pm I participated in the DC Maptime event last Friday – I think there was over 100 people and we crippled the wifi :) #geowebchat

@skorasaurus May 05, 12:12pm HOT shows tangible benefit to new ppl, though Nepal is harder than others (elevation, poor aerial imagery) #geowebchat

@steviejrich May 05, 12:12pm @mappingmashups A few friendly “How tos…” on youtube would be good. Mind, I haven’t checked… #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:12pm @neogeografen @mappingmashups @hotosm I agree mapping parties are best. It helps to have a screen everyone can see for a demo #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:14pm @mappingmashups Currently the OSMTM tasks page is geared towards experienced mappers. Would be better to gear towards newbs. #geowebchat

@skorasaurus May 05, 12:14pm @steviejrich @mappingmashups gifs would be awesome too #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:14pm @mappingmashups With the assumption that experienced mappers already know how to navigate the site and get to useful jobs #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:15pm regarding mapping parties is the same & same ppl again & again who is host/educators – ppl running tired #geowebchat new fresh ppl needed

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:16pm @skorasaurus @steviejrich The @MapGive videos are nice for super-beginners, but they don’t get into @hotosm specifics, just #osm #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:17pm If you have not visited yet, I suggest working through some of the training modules at learnosm.org #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:17pm @mappingmashups Also one of the first things I tried was to “Sort By” experience. Provide a filter for newb-friendly tasks? #geowebchat

@mikedotonline May 05, 12:17pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat If those new GIS want pointers on how to use open source GIS, MappingAcrossBorders.com has plenty of tutorials

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:18pm @mappingmashups Tutorials that talk about how to do one thing and only one thing at a time. #geowebchat

@mikedotonline May 05, 12:19pm @mappingmashups also, mappingacrossborders would be happy to host some more tutorials on how to use @hotosm too, if it helps #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:20pm @bondaharper Yes, that’s good advice. Even doing “pair mapping” with two newbies can help you learn quicker than mapping solo. #geowebchat

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:20pm #geowebchat Amazing number newbies joined mapping community to help make mapping Nepal possible. Follow up in progress to guide them

@bondaharper May 05, 12:20pm @Enock4seth @mappingmashups Single topic tutorials are great idea. Then you can focus on roads 1st, buildings 2nd, etc #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:21pm @mappingmashups Some of the tasks don’t even say “Not for beginners” until after you click through. #geowebchat

@skorasaurus May 05, 12:21pm @RussellDeffner big reason why they haven’t been done yet #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:21pm (p1/2) Two excellent ways to connect, ask questions, to @hotosm live – for text-chat qub.me/aqODc0 … #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:22pm (p2/2) For text and voice: qub.me/Gg7jV_ #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:24pm How about new users being provided access to watch experienced mappers work live on specific TM projects? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:25pm @mataharimhairi That’s a great idea. Like a live screenshare you can drop into during an activation? #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:26pm @RussellDeffner depending on users Internet connectivity. I think text/image tuts works best. @mappingmashups @MapGive @hotosm #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:27pm @bondaharper Perfect! @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:27pm 1/ @RussellDeffner @mappingmashups @skorasaurus @MapGive videos intended to on-board new users, teach @hotosm tasking manager #geowebchat

@JamesLMilner May 05, 12:28pm hello #geowebchat !

@joannalane May 05, 12:28pm #geowebchat about humanitarian mapping in Nepal starting now: how can newbies contribute productively? Follow and contribute.

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:28pm 2/ @RussellDeffner @mappingmashups @skorasaurus @steviejrich @MapGive videos are fully captioned, designed for translation. #geowebchat

@OLjohnel May 05, 12:28pm OSM learning curve over past week has been challenging but not insurmountable. If I did chat, I probably would be further along. #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:28pm FYI #geowebchat more stats twitter.com/pascal_n/statu…

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:29pm @neogeografen To avoid mapping party organizer burnout, maybe follow #maptime model of training trainers and teaching teachers? #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:29pm @mappingmashups Exactly! Live viewing during an activation to help them with identifying features in the satellite imagery #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:30pm 3/ @RussellDeffner @mappingmashups @skorasaurus @hotosm Task specifics intended to be covered in individual tracing guides #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:30pm @RussellDeffner We definitely want to incorporate some kind of chat channel for mappers in the TM projects #geowebchat

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:30pm #geowebchat Tasking Manager has many other tasks that newbies can do, not just Nepal. Just scroll down. See missingmaps.org

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:30pm @mataharimhairi Or even screenshots of what experienced mappers are seeing. Make it easier for them to share quick snapshots? #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:31pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake This is quite an intensive response and ++ new users. I estimate 8 million objects edited in 10 days.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:32pm @RalphAytoun1 Good point. In @bethschechter’s #maptime announcement (maptime.io/blog/2015/04/2…) she encourages other HOT tasks too. #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:32pm @mappingmashups It’s nice that they give the links to the tutorials but don’t know if they taught me what this terminology means #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:32pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake Mapathons are a good entrance. We need organizers to support / validate new participants tracing.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:33pm @RalphAytoun1 Nepal still needs help, but if a HOT volunteer can more easily learn how to map some other tasks, that’s great too #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:33pm @mappingmashups Yes, the ability to capture snapshots that they can share via the instructions page on the TM project tab #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:33pm @mappingmashups Sorry, the information about this terminology is within the detailed instructions for the task. Read as pre-req. #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:33pm @mataharimhairi I think also having ‘mini-modules’ that could be easily accessed from the TM – somehow link to @learnosm? #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:35pm @RalphAytoun1 One thing is most newbies knowing OSM via tasks.hotosm.org really want to help with urgent tasks. #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:35pm @danielpunkass @mappingmashups #geowebchat Has to be more than written instructions. Visual guides needed 4 each task hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/

@OLjohnel May 05, 12:36pm A video of a mapathon and/or summary of beginners questions re OSM & Nepal with answers could be useful. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:37pm @danielpunkass Yeah, good descriptions are tough… especially because many mappers are not native English speakers #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:37pm @RussellDeffner Mini-modules linking from the TM project page would also be beneficial. Just have to ensure not to overload. #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:37pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake various communication channels possible. Experienced #openstreetmap contributors to take initiatives > support

@pierzen May 05, 12:39pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake Dynamic Tutorials – Integrate instructions into ID and JOSM editors for example.

@OLjohnel May 05, 12:40pm I wonder if directing experienced GIS /inexperienced OSM folks towards QGIS/OSM could help them with transitional issues? #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:40pm #geowebchat Fundamental problems w/ @hotosm activations, need dedicated staff to build tracing guides, rate sub-task difficulty, verify data

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:40pm @mappingmashups I can’t see from the OSMTM how difficult the satellite imagery will be to see. So I lock/unlock. Frustrating. #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:41pm OSM Utopia world within every 10 km > world there is a person who can give a face to face introduction/learning for newbies #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:41pm @pierzen Experienced guide beginners. And we provide the tools like chat channels, live video and dynamic tutorials to do so #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:42pm 2/ #geowebchat current @hotosm system has no mechanism for directing users to appropriate tasks or evaluating quality, this is a huge flaw

@FoFB7 May 05, 12:43pm @pierzen hello #geowebchat i’am at #Togo

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:43pm #geowebchat Newbies must understand that logging on does not make experts, that takes time, what they have done is brilliant so far.

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:44pm @RussellDeffner Ha ha :) Definitely the mapper! And too much information can be confusing for beginners knowing where to start #geowebchat

@BlakeGirardot May 05, 12:44pm So who wants to try some live Nepal mapping training right now via google hangout? New mappers welcome plus.google.com/events/c75h3vt… #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:44pm @danielpunkass @Enock4seth @mappingmashups Ah, so maybe a way to either preview the imagery or have ‘imagery difficulty’ rating #geowebchat

@spatialbits May 05, 12:45pm I think its really important that newbees don’t validate at the beginning. This leads to huge quality issues. #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:45pm @disruptivegeo #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake Every @hotosm Repsonse is different. This time, weather, landslides, remote villages.

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:45pm @RussellDeffner @Enock4seth @mappingmashups Yes, quickly previewing would help a lot in predicting suitability of a task. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:45pm @RussellDeffner @danielpunkass @Enock4seth Would be useful, but hard, because imagery might be updated after creation of task #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:46pm @mappingmashups @RussellDeffner @Enock4seth Ah, because the mechanics of overlaying the imagery is all done on-demand? #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:47pm @mappingmashups @RussellDeffner @Enock4seth Even if I could generate imagery and peek without lock/unlock I’d feel better. #geowebchat

@FoFB7 May 05, 12:47pm @Enock4seth @RalphAytoun1 I think it is important that newbies take time to read the tasks instructuions #geowebchat @pierzen

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:47pm @BlakeGirardot I’ll join the google hangout training to see how it is! I might be half there and half in twittersphere though #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:48pm @pierzen Am sure ID and Potlatch 2 has. Since JOSM is for experience users is there need for any integrated instructions? #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:48pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake @BlakeGirardot Nice this hangout session, I am connected.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:49pm @danielpunkass Well, for some tasks you are given a specific overlay to use, other times it’s auto-updated like Mapbox, Bing. #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:49pm 1/ Read Benkler (benkler.org/CoasesPenguin….) for explanation of necessary criteria of peer production systems #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:50pm @spatialbits Yes, making validation only possible for approved users might not be too hard to implement. #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:50pm @mappingmashups I think if difficulty level could be somewhat formalized and tagged on tasks, it would be very helpful. #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:51pm @spatialbits I agree that validation should have some restrictions. Not sure if OSM experience level is best indicator #geowebchat

@spatialbits May 05, 12:52pm @mappingmashups I wonder how to define those criteria though. Even some users with a lot of OSM experience validate shi* #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:54pm @spatialbits It is something that @hotosm can manage? Maybe they can “deputize” trusted people as validators? #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:55pm @mappingmashups @Enock4seth @danielpunkass Many moving parts reg imagery; but think it doable for coordinators to rate poor-good #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:55pm 2/ Inability to direct users to tasks of appropriate difficulty & no quality control risk decreasing motivation & use #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:55pm @spatialbits I agree it’s not correlated w/ OSM experience, but rather @hotosm experience & familiarity with the tasks’s needs. #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:57pm 3/ need to develop new systems to crowdsource data validation, this leads to user ranking & assigning appropriate tasks #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:57pm @BlakeGirardot @pierzen This google hangout training is great. Can it be recorded? Then it can be linked through the TM project?#geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:58pm @spatialbits peer-review system would be good set up so as not to alienate willing helpers, but direct to best task for skill #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:58pm Thanks everybody for joining this lively #geowebchat. We’re about at the end of our hour. Any last thoughts?

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:59pm #geowebchat All done by volunteers so be understanding. They are processing new tasks and imagery all the time.

@bondaharper May 05, 12:59pm @mappingmashups Lots of beginners is a great problem to have! I was touched how many of my co-workers gave up lunch to learn #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 1:00pm @mappingmashups Is this #geowebchat a weekly event? It was very informative and I would like to join again!

@mappingmashups May 05, 1:00pm I’ll post the #geowebchat transcript here in a couple days: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ Our next chat is in 1 month.

@RussellDeffner May 05, 1:00pm @mappingmashups Thanks for putting this together, let’s do it again soon – great ideas that we’ll capture @hotosm #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 1:01pm The next #geowebchat will be guest-hosted by @nguyenist! We’ll be talking about navigation apps. Tuesday June 2, same time: 12pm PDT 3pm EDT

@CiaranStaunton May 05, 1:02pm #geowebchat maybe make another webchat #wheniwasanewbie and get over the experience caste system??

@mataharimhairi May 05, 1:05pm @hotosm Great #geowebchat today. Check out the transcript if you missed it. There are a lot of brilliant ideas! twitter.com/mappingmashups…

@mappingmashups May 05, 1:08pm @mataharimhairi Thanks to all the @hotosm participants who joined the #geowebchat today!

@pierzen May 05, 1:11pm #geowebchat Actually, 84 simultaneous contributors around the world mapping for #NepalEarthquake @hotosm Response tasks.hotosm.org

@BlakeGirardot May 05, 1:29pm Next time I live map I have to get the audio and text working, sorry about that :( #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 3:48pm @Stellar0645 I believe crowd mapping is an incredible force for good, reason for @MapGive, but we must fix user & quality issues #geowebchat

@jgVisov May 06, 1:18am #geowebchat This large job is open to all: tasks.hotosm.org/project/1018 Pre-quake building footprints are useful for damage analysis #gistribe 1/2

@jgVisov May 06, 1:19am #geowebchat View @BlakeGirardot recorded video to see him live @hotosm mapping twitter.com/BlakeGirardot/… #gistribe @pierzen 2/2

@neogeomat May 06, 5:53am #geowebchat many drones were used for news in #NepalQuake . uav image can be better as it’s difficult to identify collapsed structures.

@pedrito1414 May 06, 5:54am #geowebchat Late to party, but a couple of points… 1. Mapathons need to be regular in order to build skills, create new gen. of validators

@pedrito1414 May 06, 5:55am #geowebchat 2. Skilled mappers should not be tracing buildings! They should prep tasks, create guides & then newbies do the simple stuff.

@pedrito1414 May 06, 5:57am #geowebchat The way forward is through intelligent tasking. #MissingMaps is working on this for large AOIs. Documentation soon.

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