#geowebchat transcript, 3 November 2015: #opengovdata with @GeoCensos


@GeoCensos Oct 30, 6:10pm After #ogpmapping at #ogp15 we ask : What can govs learn from #openmappping ?. Join us next 3/11 11am EST in #geowebchat #opengovdata”

@mappingmashups Nov 02, 5:25pm Tmrw on #geowebchat, we wake up early on the west coast for a special time 8am PST. Topic is #opengovdata w/ guest host @GeoCensos. Join us!

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 6:02am Welcome all #openmapping communities 2 discuss about #govopengeodata in a #geowebchat hosted by @GeoCensos, tks to @geothinkca initiative

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 6:03am Welcome also #opengovpart stakeholders 2 discuss about #govopengeodata in a #geowebchat hosted by @GeoCensos, tks to @geothinkca initiative

@geothinkca Nov 03, 6:14am RT @re_sieber: What govs can learn from #openmappping?#geowebchat 11am EST Nov 3 medium.com/@mikelmaron/op…

@re_sieber Nov 03, 7:19am Economic Impact of Open Data: What Do We Already Know? From @JeniT @ ODI huffingtonpost.co.uk/jeni-tennison/… #geowebchat @geothinkca @peterajohnson

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 7:51am Welcom all parties and communities to discuss about #govopengeodata in a #geowebchat hosted by @GeoCensos, thanks to @geothinkca initiative

@re_sieber Nov 03, 7:59am Welcome everyone to #opendata for government & #openmapping @ #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 03, 8:00am Hello to everyone joining today’s special-time #geowebchat! Welcome to #ogp15 attendees! More info about the chat: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:01am Goal of this #geowebchat: trigger dialogue answering 4 provoking statements in a scale: 1. Agree + 2. Agree – 3. Not agree + 4. Not agree -

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:01am Or #opendata for gov is viewed as use cases, best practices #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 03, 8:01am If you want to join the conversation, be sure to use the hashtag #geowebchat in all your tweets. Follow along here: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:03am #geowebchat will be enriched justifying previously scaled answers, ie “3. NOT AGREE to statement because governments don’t know about maps”

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:03am #openmapping for gov is also a managerial issue. How do you integrate #opendata in SOP of gov? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:03am We should probably begin by defining ‘open’ in #opendata, #openmapping for go #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:04am @re_sieber Its a matter of openess of institutions, of course , and gov need to apropiate #datarevolution #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:06am .@GeoCensos Never thought of ‘open’ as openness of institutions to VGI. Usually think of open as OKFN definition #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:06am @re_sieber openess in #geodata is about simple accessibility to data, its replicability and reuse for anyone or ANY purposes #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:07am .@peterajohnson has done research on openness of gov to accept citizen-generated data like OSM #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:08am #geowebchat STATEmnt 1 #openmapping will never work for govs as all stat nat offices own all mayor #geodata in countries and don`t share.

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:08am #geowebchat will enrich if justifying previously scaled answers, ie “3. NOT AGREE to statement because governments don’t know about maps”

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:09am .@GeoCensos Depends on scale, as ownership varies by level of gov. US fed data governed by strong FOIA, cult of openbydefault #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:09am Intrigued by the possibility of #OSM adoption I asked 8 Canadian muni govs what they thought – most had never heard of #OSM #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:10am @re_sieber @peterajohnson can u please provide any links about that? I`d be fruitful if some of #geowebchat can enrich that research I guess

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:11am .@ international level, we have instance of UN, other agencies using OSM for humanitarian relief #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:11am @peterajohnson Sure there is a #evangelization gap between gov natnl or local on #openmapping that the real #datarevolution #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:11am Some govs are open to direct citizen contributions to fix data errors. Not sure if direct edits would fit. #geowebchat

@davidfawcett Nov 03, 8:12am @GeoCensos In my mind, economic value is directly proportional to degree of openness, but no data to back it up. no -BY, etc. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:12am Are we working w a common definition of #openmapping? Is it = non-expert crowdsourced geographic content? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:13am Does gov position as provider for emergency services routing, legal land titles, impact possibility of open map adoption? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:13am @re_sieber I’m assuming we are talking about #osm ? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:14am @mapanauta @GeoCensos @lxbarth Not sure we have the extra characters to use both #geowebchat & #opengeotalk

@charlielapin Nov 03, 8:14am .@re_sieber Why non-expert? The qualifier seems unnecessary considering the implications of openness. #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:14am .@GeoCensos #geowebchat don’t agree, of course, since we are already seeing many examples to the contrary

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:14am @re_sieber Signaling could work for openess in institutions, its time to think about a good std 4certifiable openess 4 govs #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:16am .@GeoCensos #geowebchat but open mapping definition can include OSM and other thematic data, some of which can be more ‘proprietary’

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:16am .@charlielapin We usually-not always-insert non-expert into discussion of VGI to distinguish it from credentialled contributions #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:18am .@bensonwilder would lk to broaden discussion beyond OSM. Examples of proprietary sources? Is #openmapping ab data or map? #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:19am .@peterajohnson #geowebchat It can, in good ways – see modernisation.gouv.fr/salle-de-press…

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:20am @re_sieber #openmapping has no common definition as it is an evolving discipline, its still a challenging task #geowebchat

@lxbarth Nov 03, 8:20am @re_sieber @bensonwilder see also openaddresses.io #geowebchat

@lxbarth Nov 03, 8:20am @re_sieber @bensonwilder open mapping = open data + open collaboration #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:21am #geowebchat STATEmnt 2 #opengovs are really trying hard #opengeodata actions, but they WILL NEVER include #openmapping in their workflows

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:21am @bensonwilder Nice example – this is a good start. Still unsure about prop bound, but turns/curbs for emerg serv maybe? #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:22am .@re_sieber #geowebchat varies according to context and local/natl authority. but admin boundaries at lower levels for one.

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:22am #geowebchat discussion can work justifying scaled answers to below, ie “3. NOT AGREE to statement because bla bla bla…”

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:22am @lxbarth @re_sieber #geowebchat yes that’s a better link!

@vtcraghead Nov 03, 8:23am @lxbarth @re_sieber @bensonwilder <canofworms>Google Map Maker</canofworms> #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:23am @lxbarth @re_sieber #geowebchat maps are always about the data imho.

@lxbarth Nov 03, 8:23am @vtcraghead @re_sieber @bensonwilder google map maker does not create open data #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:23am @vtcraghead @lxbarth @re_sieber @bensonwilder clearly not open! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:24am .@bensonwilder @lxbarth I still some #opendata portals in Canada, where gov thinks OD is ab mapping/viz data #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:25am @GeoCensos but…I am sure there are many that already do some comparison between #osm and own data #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:26am .@bensonwilder @lxbarth Also issue of how close to raw data should be #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:26am @peterajohnson #geowebchat maybe its true, but this does not assure govs will adopt the #openess of #geodata … have u got case studies?

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:28am .@peterajohnson @GeoCensos #geowebchat compare, use, incorporate, fill in gaps…

@peterajohnson Nov 03, 8:29am @GeoCensos working on those case studies…. #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:29am #geowebchat STATEmnt 3 @aliciabarcena from @eclac_un said Nat stats orgs MUST be opened to civil society . Explain your position, please.

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:30am (whoa, seeing lots of grammatical errors in my own #geowebchat). This is not like a bicycle-must continue to practice twitterchats!)

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:32am @re_sieber Never mind, I guess latinos like @javiercarranza3 have a lot to learn from you, not smth to be too proud of, but…#geowebchat

@vtcraghead Nov 03, 8:32am @lxbarth @re_sieber @bensonwilder e.g. satsentinel.org/blog/lets-buil… #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:33am .@re_sieber @lxbarth well to be fair that still allows for engagement with the data. positive step on a spectrum in my book.#geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:33am What about statement3? No politically correct answers, please! @aliciabarcena said Nat stat orgs MUST be opened to civil society #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:33am In #openmapping, are we agnostic as to source? Don’t care if citizen-, gov- or priv sector generated? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:36am If we’re agnostic ab source of data (citizen, priv sector,gov) then can we still ask for raw data Can we have opencollab w/o it? #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:38am #geowebchat STATEmnt5 @mikel said @ goo.gl/jrx5tU that #openmapping is “equally accessible, not silo’d by border or organization”

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:38am .@bensonwilder @lxbarth How is opencollab diff from a consulting contract to map? #geowebchat

@davidfawcett Nov 03, 8:38am @bensonwilder I am pretty sure that the proprietary vendors are doing it, why not gov! #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Nov 03, 8:39am @peterajohnson @lxbarth @re_sieber @bensonwilder Well it’s complicated, not least by license: services.google.com/fb/forms/mapma… #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:40am @re_sieber @bensonwilder @lxbarth 4 us, #opencollab does not diff from a consulting contract to map but in #geoopendata #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:40am .@GeoCensos @aliciabarcena Agreed. Data from Nat stats orgs must open data to civil society (protecting privacy, OFC) #geowebchat

@davidfawcett Nov 03, 8:41am @bensonwilder @re_sieber @lxbarth Maybe there is an opportunity to provide tools/apis that gov can use to monitor data changes? #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:41am @re_sieber @aliciabarcena thats a dimension that should be embeded in #opendata definitions : institutional policies #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:42am .@mikel argues, in #openmapping, ‘Sources & methodologies are fully transparent’. Just say no to patents #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:45am Time to wrap up #geowebchat : Have 3 – 4 concluding remarks to make sure we all understood our #geowebchat findings or takeaways Maybe not

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:45am #geowebchat Conclusion 1 Governments need to walk the talk 4 #openmapping and #mappingrevolution as many don`t even know the talk

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:46am #geowebchat Conclusion 2 You can convince governments to include some #opengeodata in their plans, but the walk needs a long talk yet

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:46am Don’t see opening in medium.com/@mikelmaron/op… for licenses ever. Thorny subj #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:46am #geowebchat Conclusion 3 Google Map maker is clearly not open and does not fit in the evolving definition of @openmapping

@davidfawcett Nov 03, 8:46am @GeoCensos Next steps or place for further discussion? #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:46am #geowebchat Conclusion 4 Have some #opendata portals in Canada, where gov thinks OD is a mapping/viz data #geowebchat

@davidfawcett Nov 03, 8:48am @GeoCensos How do we get together to focus those talks? (my interest is US state and local gov data) #geowebchat

@jedmiller Nov 03, 8:48am @re_sieber But #DataRevolution work must tell Nat Stats orgs to /engage/ CSOs, not just “open” data @GeoCensos @aliciabarcena #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:49am .@GeoCensos #geowebchat we are going to see as much #openmappingevolution as we do #openmappingrevolution. more of the latter at local scale

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:49am .@GeoCensos @openmapping Conclusion 3:We need consensus on meaning of open. Otherwise, concept can be co-opted by gov, priv sect #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:50am @davidfawcett 1. we are going to put together a paper and share 2 put a statement 4 @StatsCanada next NSO conference in #Quito #geowebchat

@bensonwilder Nov 03, 8:51am #geowebchat @jedmiller @re_sieber @GeoCensos @aliciabarcena incentives may lie in co-creation of (often new) data

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:51am .@jedmiller No to #Opendata as throwing data over the wall sciencedirect.com/science/articl… #geowebchat

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:51am #geowebchat conclusion 5:We need consensus on meaning of open. Otherwise, concept can be co-opted by gov, priv sect

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:53am Thanks to everyone who joined today’s #geowebchat! Lets keep working on to map together with #opengovs a better world!

@jedmiller Nov 03, 8:54am Good idea. A “create-a-palooza” for #opendata, w/2-way incentives. Instead of “We make. You use.” #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:54am Conclusion 5.5 #openmapping > crowdsourced mapping #geowebchat #FOSS

@re_sieber Nov 03, 8:56am Thanks everyone for participating in today’s #geowebchat on #openmapping, #opencollaboration

@GeoCensos Nov 03, 8:57am Sorry, but @javiercarranza3 needs to catch a plane from Mexico – Bogota. Please keep the dialogue open and geo. Hasta la vista! #geowebchat

@jedmiller Nov 03, 8:58am .@re_sieber Yes. No #opendata “over the wall.” Need govt listening to what can makes #opendata usable. tech.transparency-initiative.org/treat-all-data… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 03, 9:01am Thanks @GeoCensos for running today’s #geowebchat! I’ll post the transcript on mappingmashups.net shortly!

@jedmiller Nov 03, 9:03am Rich soil, vast expanses in twitter #GeoWebChat on #geomapping, #opendata and what can govts learn. @re_sieber @mikel

@mappingmashups Nov 03, 9:03am Next #geowebchat is in one month, on Dec 1st, at 12 noon PST. Topic will be the #topgeostoryof2015. Start sending me your votes!

@mikel Nov 03, 11:03am great #geowebchat today, sorry to miss twitter.com/hashtag/geoweb… #openmapping is about collaboration, great example medium.com/backchannel/op…

@GeoCensos Nov 04, 3:02pm Our last #geowebchat boarded relevance and potential of #mappingrevolution for governments, preview transcript at ln.is/tweetchat.com/…

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