Next #geowebchat: Where Next for the MSc in GIS? January 21, 2014

Next #geowebchat: Tuesday 21st January 2014, 12pm PST, 3pm EST, 8pm GMT.

[Guest post by Claire Ellul]

Hi all,

We’d like to invite you to the next #geowebchat – ‘Where Next for the MSc in GIS?’. To quickly introduce myself, I’m a Lecturer in GIS at University College London in the UK, and prior to becoming an academic I was a GIS consultant for 10 years, based in the UK but working in Europe and the Middle East.

Here in the UK there is great demand for the specialist skills provided by the MSc in GIS, with students finding employment prior to completing the course. However, there is an increasing lack of supply. This is coupled with an increasingly wider range of skills required from graduates, more of which are highly technical. We’re also introducing new, more specialist courses (MSc in Geomatics for Building Information Modelling and MSc in Spatio-Temporal Analytics and Big Data Mining) and we’d love to find out whether the traditional general MSc is still relevant. We’ve held a face to face meeting with contacts in London, but there has also been interest from elsewhere and we think the topic is relevant to many other groups too! So we’re asking the following questions:

1. What sectors will be employing GIS graduates in 5 years, and how much will they be paying?

2. What skills should the students have?

3. What courses should we run? Is a general MSc in GIS still relevant, or do we need more specialist courses?

4. How can we recruit bright students into the profession?

5. Is the word GIS still relevant or are GIS people ‘the people who make the maps’?

Hope to see you online ..

Best regards


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#geowebchat transcript: 17 December 2013: #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups Dec 06, 11:40am New post: Vote for the Top Geo Story of 2013: #topgeostoryof2013

@kgjenkins Dec 09, 6:59pm In May, @MapBox launched new iD editor for @openstreetmap #topgeostoryof2013

@kgjenkins Dec 09, 7:00pm QGIS 2.0 drops the “quantum” #topgeostoryof2013

@neogeografen Dec 10, 1:28pm Media world wide january writting Google Maps were the first to create a digital map of North Korea #geohoax story #topgeostoryof2013

@kgjenkins Dec 12, 1:51pm @eltonteb @Elijah_Meeks @sgillies @MapBox #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups Dec 13, 12:52pm What was the #topgeostoryof2013? Send me your votes by December 17:… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:00am .@mappingmashups another vote for @hotosm as a #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:03am .@mappingmashups a vote for #topgeostoryof2013 is prioritization of #geoint in US workforce development… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:08am another #topgeostoryof2013 is pushback against #geotagging bc of how much it reveals ab you #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:12am #topgeostoryof2013 Even after the Apple Maps flop, Google Maps still lost customers to it… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:15am #topgeostoryof2013 Cartodb’s platform to create maps from data feeds hosted on external sites… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:20am #topgeostoryof2013 cities w local police gaining access 2 #bigdata, phone, CCTV, soc media, tolls, drones… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:22am #topgeostoryof2013 Crowdsourcing urban temperature w smartphone battery temperatures and OpenSignal App… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:25am #topgeostoryof2013 US gov shutdown affects geospatial data access, from NASA, Census Bureau, NOAA, etc. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:29am #topgeostoryof2013 NSA admits tracking locations of cellphone calls in US… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:33am #topgeostoryof2013 crowdsourced maps possible future of navigation… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:37am #topgeostoryof2013 Being sued for VGI: Hotel owner sues tripadvisor… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:41am #topgeostoryof2013 GPS is affecting our natural ability to navigate… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:46am #topgeostoryof2013 Using 3D printing to create mobile cities for hermit crabs… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54am #topgeostoryof2013 the backlash to #bigdata, #smalldata… like local bus, recycling routes #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 8:15am #topgeostoryof2013 is the #fail of hyperlocal content aggregators. First Everyblock & now Patch… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 16, 11:55am Tomorrow on #geowebchat, we’re counting down to the #topgeostoryof2013. Send your votes & join the chat, Tue 12p PST…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 3:45pm Another article supporting courts& #geosurveillance 4 #topgeostoryof2013: Warrants needed to track phone locations…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 4:04pm #topgeostoryof2013 the mapping of traces in urban landscape left by social media via @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 5:49pm Another company made poss only bc of geog tech, Airbnb runs afoul of city regulations… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 6:28pm Hard to argue w this nom for #topgeostoryof2013 geography teacher geek chic… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 16, 7:12pm #topgeostoryof2013 has to be iD editor for #osm by @MapBox

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:20pm #topgeostoryof2013 #OSM reaches 1million users #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:23pm #SpatialDigitalHumanities #topgeostoryof2013 A spatial network model of travel in ancient Rome

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:25pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 The decline in #geotagging & turrning off of location tracking, esp among teens… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:27pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 fb developing location tracker… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:32pm #topgeostoryof2013 Google Moto X heralds next big thing in smartphones, geolocative predictive intell… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:35pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 E-commerce sites automatically vary prices based on your location… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:37pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Launch of social checkin mobile app to identify location based racism #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:39pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Unreliability of Google Flu… & global mapping of infectious diseases…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:44pm #topgeostoryof2013 Hazard of tweeting for crisis commn:Calgary police go 2Twitter jail 4 too many tweets during flood…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:45pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 The anti social checkin mapping app to put optimal spatial distance btwn you &your ‘friends’

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:47pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Drones for war, drones for environment & in 2013 drones for peace… My solution? No drones

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:51pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Ancient city found using LIDAR… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:53pm #topgeostoryof2013 Now illegal to map concealed gun owners in Louisiana & other backlashes to gun mapping… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 With an app & a GPS wristband, a DIY prison wo walls… #badidea #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 #bigdata meets #geosurveillance in the workplace to squeeze out that last bit of productivity…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 8:08pm #topgeostoryof2013 term geofencing, ad hoc geog boundaries.Apps generate alerts when employees,others cross perimeter…

@eknalprev 7:28am #topgeostoryof2013 Voyager 1 Reaches Interstellar Space… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 8:06am #topgeostoryof2013 web map dynamic hill shading blew my mind:… @MapBox

@mappingmashups 10:04am Today on #geowebchat, send me your votes for the #topgeostoryof2013… then join the chat at 12pm PST, 3pm EST, 8pm GMT.

@mappingmashups 10:05am Would also love to hear the #GISChat people’s votes for the #topgeostoryof2013…

@mappingmashups 11:38am Great nominees for the #topgeostoryof2013 tweeted by @re_sieber in the last few days. Definitely worth perusing. RTs = votes! #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag 11:52am New GoogleMaps? @googlemaps #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 11:59am Here are some “interesting maps” of 2013 from @GISLounge.… Any #topgeostoryof2013 contenders here? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Hi everyone, and welcome to the last #geowebchat of the year. For the next hour we’ll be talking about (& voting for) the #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:00pm If you don’t want to follow along, see if your twitter client can mute the hashtag #geowebchat and/or #topgeostoryof2013.

@MapHugger 12:02pm Can “@MapBox does every cool thing ever” count as #topgeostoryof2013? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:03pm If you want to follow the #geowebchat, try using where you can search for both hashtags. Or:…

@re_sieber 12:03pm @mappingmashups for today’s #geowebchat, what’s the preferred hashtag? That or #topgeostoryof2013? Using 2 hashtags cuts down on characters.

@mappingmashups 12:03pm @MapHugger It can, and I’ve already received many votes to that effect. :) #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:04pm @re_sieber I think we should stick to #geowebchat. Including #topgeostoryof2013 is optional. But I will record both in the transcript.

@re_sieber 12:04pm .@mappingmashups I have ~30-40 #topgeostoryof2013. So RT at will #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm We’ll spend the first half of this #geowebchat as a discussion, and you are free to keep voting. In the 2nd half hour I’ll tally the votes.

@re_sieber 12:07pm I vote for the rise of geolocative predictive intelligence w Moto X as a #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat Not just your traces but where u go

@mappingmashups 12:07pm Last year there were a few other geo blogs that posted top 10 lists for 2012, but I didn’t see anything similar for 2013. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:08pm Here’s the link for @re_sieber’s vote about the Moto X. I hadn’t read that one.… #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@re_sieber 12:09pm RT #topgeostoryof2013, decline of #geotagging & location tracking turned off, which has huge implications for geog research #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:10pm I nominate #NSA revealing they can and do geolocational tracking of mobile phones (and prob. same for #FBI) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:11pm Nearly half of teens have turned off location tracking… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:12pm .@JeremyCrampton Also much involvement of courts this yr in NSA location tracking #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:13pm How about the wave of neogeo DIY pedagogy? @cartoDB’s #MapAcademy, @tmcw’s #mapschool, & #maptime at @stamen & other locations.. #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:15pm @re_sieber totes #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:15pm A phys/virtual #topgeostoryof2013 is rise of uber, lyft, airbnb, only poss bc of geospatial & their battles w city regulations #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:16pm @re_sieber I would be curious to see how much of this is privacy motivated vs battery motivated #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:18pm .@mjfoster83 RT how much of teens turning off loc tracking is privacy vs battery motivated? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:23pm RT #topgeostoryof2013 Rise of #OSM, in # users, @hotosm new GUIs, probs w Google, Apple #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm @re_sieber Definitely lots of #OSM stories to vote for. Don’t forget the new iD editor, which is a huge deal. #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:26pm RT @Brobdingnag: based on ppl who sent the link because ‘you like maps’ @jshkatz ‘s dialect maps fosho… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:26pm Something from #DiggingIntoDataChallenge RT #topgeostoryof2013 Rise of research into urban mapping of social media traces #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:28pm Following up on the death of #hyperlocal news…, @everyblock’s surprising return… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:29pm Was 2013 the year of vector maps? New @googlemaps, MapBox vector tiles, etc? #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@re_sieber 12:30pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 is reactions to #bigdata: rise of #smalldata & #darkdata & #fail of ROI of #bigdata analytics #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:32pm @mappingmashups, i’m overlimit on nyt free views, but what do people think about private geosocial? e.g, #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:33pm Okay everybody, last chance to vote. Read over the #geowebchat & #topgeostoryof2013 tweets & send as many votes as you can fit in a tweet.

@re_sieber 12:33pm #topgeostoryof2013 Even after the Apple Maps flop, Google Maps still lost customers to it… #geowebchat BYOD #fail

@mappingmashups 12:34pm @erictheise I hadn’t thought of @Nextdoor as “private geosocial”, but I suppose in a sense that’s what it is. But so is #4sq? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:34pm Possible #topgeostory2013 Penn State geo MOOC with 1/3 of students completing! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:35pm .@erictheise @mappingmashups private geosocial like may be solution to hyperlocal content aggregation #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:35pm Possible #topgeostoryof2013 Penn State geo MOOC with 1/3 of students completing! #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:35pm @mappingmashups, i hadn’t either, but that’s @Nextdoor’s tagline: ‘The private social network for your neighborhood.’ #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:36pm 1 vote for the rise of @openstreetmap #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:36pm Too bumpy in DC taxi for tweeting. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:37pm .@michael_d_gould 1/3 of MOOC students completing is a success story #geowebchat discipline-dependent MOOC completion rates? #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:38pm or, the year open source became approachable #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@gregorymarler 12:39pm @mappingmashups I mapped some house numbers on my street for #OSM. #topgeostoryof2013 Small story, big impact if we all keep doing it.

@neogeografen 12:40pm 1 vote for all the good work @hotosm with their contributors did world wide #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:41pm Any fave new geoweb sites this year for #topgeostoryof2013? I nom spatial travel model of ancient Rome #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:43pm Okay, I had to make some arbitrary groupings for some of these, but here come the top 10 entries for the #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat…

@mappingmashups 12:44pm #10 Release of QGIS 2.0 and the dropping of “Quantum”. The premier open source GIS takes a big step forward. #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@SterlingGIS 12:46pm @mappingmashups DIY neogeography sites you mentioned are largely made possible because of HTML5 and SaaS cloud tech. rising #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:46pm #9 @jshkatz’s dialect maps were voted as the most popular maps of the year by #geowebchat readers.… #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:48pm #8 @MapBox’s dynamic hillshading by @mourner is one of many @MapBox faves on the #topgeostoryof2013 list… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:48pm .@SterlingGIS @mappingmashups In 2013, we saw the rise (ie actual use) of SaaS for both GIS & #neogeoweb #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:49pm #7 The “year of @openstreetmap” was represented by #OSM hitting 1 million users… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@stamenglo 12:49pm #topgeostory2013 #geowebchat Surely it was @stamen hiring @mappingmashups!!!

@SterlingGIS 12:50pm @mappingmashups Now QGIS has a professional-looking interface I imagine it being more competitive. That stuff counts. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:51pm .@mappingmashups Hmm, your 10 #topgeostoryof2013 is a bit product heavy #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:51pm #6 Notable successes, failures, & sudden rebirths in #hyperlocal news (@Nextdoor @PatchTweet @everyblock etc) #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:53pm #5 The year of alternative geo pedagogy: @A_C_Robinson’s maps #MOOC, #mapacademy, #maptime, #mapschool, etc #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:54pm @re_sieber Different voters this year? Or maybe this is the year of products. Lots of product votes didn’t make the cut, too. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm #4 Revelations about NSA #geosurveillance (and other geo-tracking stories) #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mhaklay 12:55pm @SterlingGIS @mappingmashups strange how ‘professional looking’ == ArcGIS. Why can’t QGIS rethink GIS interface? #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:56pm #OpenStreetMap got some worldwide press around the Haiyan relief mapping. Will it have a hockey stick moment in 2014? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:56pm #3 @hotosm’s activation for Typhoon #Haiyan/#Yolanda. Biggest #crisismapping effort since Haiti? Bigger? #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@bethschechter 12:57pm +1 #5 The year of alternative geo pedagogy: @A_C_Robinson maps #MOOC, #mapacademy, #maptime, #mapschool, etc #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:58pm @mhaklay @mappingmashups I refer to the cyan and magenta icons for adding data and the multiple labeling dialogs pre 2.0. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:58pm #2 Another @openstreetmap/@MapBox story: the release of the iD editor, making #OSM much more user-friendly. #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm The #topgeostoryof2013: @MapBox’s funding & general awesomeness…. Big implications for the open geoweb. #geowebchat

@erictheise 1:01pm nice work again assembling the yearly roundup, @mappingmashups, thanks, happy holidays to all of youse on #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:03pm Votes for @MapBox’s vector maps & cloudless atlas didn’t make the cut, but certainly solidified their #topgeostoryof2013 ranking #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:05pm Thanks everybody for a great year of #geowebchat! See you on Jan 7. Add webcal:// to your calendar & never miss a chat.

@mhaklay 1:07pm I’m joining too late – great list of #topgeostoryof2013 but how the $1B for Waze which mean a price tag for VGI is missing? #geowebchat

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Vote for the Top Geo Story of 2013: #topgeostoryof2013

For the final #geowebchat of the year (which will be Tuesday, December 17, at 12pm PST), I am collecting your votes for the top news story of the year in the field of geography and geospatial technology. On the 17th I will add up all your votes and post a crowdsourced top 10 list of the biggest geo stories of 2013.

Please send me your votes, either through comments on this blog post, or on twitter using the hashtag #topgeostoryof2013. One vote per person please (but if you must vote for more than one, please rank your votes in order of preference: #1, #2, etc.)

To give you some ideas, here are the top stories you picked for 2012:

  1. The Apple iOS6 Maps fail
  2. Nate Silver’s use of geostatistics and big data to predict the US presidential election
  3. ESRI acquiring GeoCommons and GeoLoqi
  4. The David Imus map of the United States
  5. The emergence of cheap drones, sensors and the dawning Internet of Things
  6. Two tribes emerge (geoweb and GIScience research) within academia
  7. The geoweb and the rise of “Big Data”
  8. The diversification of maps APIs
  9. The undiscovering of Sandy Island
  10. Google Maps 8-bit NES style

As you can see, some stories were serious, some were silly, and many of them could be contenders to be the top story of 2013, too! So, what do you think is the biggest geospatial story of this year? Remember to vote before December 17!

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping, Networks | 1 Response

#geowebchat transcript 3 December 2013: geoweb tribes redux

@mappingmashups Nov 30, 7:06am Next #geowebchat: “geoweb tribes”. Is it #geoweb or #cybergis? #neogeography or #neocartography? It’s sharks vs jets, Dec 3 12pm PT! Pls RT!

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 02, 12:33am @mappingmashups Would you mind providing background context to tomorrow’s #geowebchat?

@mappingmashups Dec 02, 7:52am @CostanzaAsnaghi For #geowebchat context, try these transcripts:…,…, &…

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 10:12am Today on #geowebchat, 12pm PT: discussing turf battles between geoweb, cybergis, neogeography, neocartography & more:…

@neogeografen Dec 03, 10:18am kl 21:00 er der webchat #geowebchat – i dag om defintioner – ” neogeographer, neocartographer, GIS 2, Map 2″ osv…

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 10:30am For context in today’s #geowebchat , see the #AAG panel session proposal we submitted: Battle of the Tribes.

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 11:35am Michael Jones’ final paragraph in this interview could feed an entirely different #geowebchat… Maybe later.

@re_sieber Dec 03, 11:39am 20 minutes to #geowebchat: what tribe are you? geoweber, cybergiser, neogeographer, neocartographer, GIScientist? Maybe you’re anti-tribe.

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 11:56am Everyone following #geowebchat, context here: “…,…, &…” @mappingmashups

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 11:59am Welcome to today’s #cyberGISchat, no, #neogeographyChat, no, #geowebchat . The deck is stacked at the outset. :)

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:01pm Hi everyone, today’s #geowebchat will be guided by @michael_d_gould & @re_sieber. We’re talking about geoweb “tribes”…

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:01pm The Battle of the Tribes idea stems from a proto-debate started at AAG Los Angeles. #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:02pm Thanks @mappingmashups for organizing the #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:02pm Hello everyone, I’m a GIScientist. That’s where current academic legitimacy is. Tribe based on what gets you ahead #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:02pm Thanks @michael_d_gould for hosting and @mappingmashups for organizing! #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:03pm @re_sieber was tossing critical comments over the wall during one of many #cyberGIS AAG panel sessions. I was a panelist. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:03pm GIScience is not where the fun is, though #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:04pm @re_sieber agreed. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:04pm Not that I define myself as a cyberGISer. But the topic was teaching the stuff. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:05pm I would define myself as a geographer, not as a GIScience or cyberGISer. I am not what I teach. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:05pm FYI Today’s #geowebchat is a teaser for @michael_d_gould & @re_sieber’s #AAG2014 panel w/ @geographiliac @ajturner @swuiuc & Sara Fabrikant

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:05pm I was also trained as a GI Scientist, before the more famous MG coined the term. #geowebchat Then I moved to Spain and got practical :(

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:06pm @geographiliac But are you also not what you research? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:07pm when I moved to an IT department I started talking “geospatial technologies”. Whatever gets you funded?. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:07pm @michael_d_gould there’s a more famous MG ?? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:07pm @mappingmashups we all have nuances of research that blend with all aspects of our lives. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:08pm @geographiliac My job was GIS applications in environment. I had to bld my bona fides to join #GIScience tribe. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:08pm also, I technically teach in a “GeoSpatial Studies” program, and not in Geography, technology, GIS, etc… #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:09pm @geographiliac is your nuanced mix in the UNESCO scientific category list? #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:09pm I’m a cartozygon…morph into most of so-called tribes depending on circumstances #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:10pm @geographiliac My background is in #PPGIS. Uphill battle to gain legitimay for public particip GIS in #GIScience tribe #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:10pm @michael_d_gould is there a list? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:11pm @re_sieber and I thank you for fighting that battle!!!! #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:11pm Is #neogeography still alive? if not, what comes after neo? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:11pm @re_sieber As a member of the #PPGIS tribe, do you disavow #PGIS? Some tribal battles never get settled, ppl just move on. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:11pm You are what you are. Education. Experience. Context. Employment. Opinions. Tribal distinction is uneccesarily divisive #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:11pm @michael_d_gould @geographiliac @re_sieber belonging to a tribe builds identity – key in academia and industry? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:11pm @kennethfield Cartozygote? Cartocylon? Cartotrope? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:12pm I appreciate the path @michael_d_gould @re_sieberhave paved for those of us that integrate critical thought and GIS #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:12pm @geographiliac here are the UNESCO 6-digit codes. Do you exist? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:13pm @mappingmashups Yes, some internecine tribal battles, like #ppgis v #pgis never die #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:13pm @michael_d_gould My problem with #neogeography isn’t that it implies a #paleo, just that calling anything “neo” is bad idea. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:13pm Are we all ‘special snowflakes’? Makes it challenging to compare for job hire, funding decisions without a category to excel in #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:14pm @michael_d_gould Nothing stays new forever. We need terms that actually describe what something is. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:14pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups only because the stakes are so low? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:14pm @mappingmashups But when you’ve got something cool and new, neo sounds great for a while! #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:15pm good point–if we are now “neo-geography” what do we call the next “neo-”? #geowebchat

@ajturner Dec 03, 12:15pm @mappingmashups you mean like neoclassical, neonatal, neocon, neolithic, neoprene, neon? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:15pm Also @agaleszczynski makes great points about why the “neo” label serves certain ppls interests… #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:15pm @geographiliac neo-neo? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:15pm I teach a class called ‘computer cartography’. How old school is that? Changed it to ‘principles of GIScience’. Good move? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:15pm @mappingmashups @michael_d_gould Tell that to “Modern Dance” and “Contemporary Art” Not that those make much sense now. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:16pm @peterajohnson @michael_d_gould @geographiliac tribes is what they is. Place @ the table, whether VCs, journals, or grants #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:16pm the UNESCO codes :… #geowebchat Do you exist?

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:16pm @peterajohnson I teach a class on “print cartography”… I am not sure why. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:16pm @geographiliac or what was neo- becomes retro-neo? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:16pm @vtcraghead No, I think people realized their mistake with “modern” and have managed to keep “contemporary”‘s true meaning #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:17pm @michael_d_gould 5499 #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:17pm @geographiliac I’m assuming there is no digital cartography class offered the following semester? ;) #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:17pm @peterajohnson just “advanced cartography” #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:18pm Print cartography? nice, you guys are making me feel neo. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:18pm Remember hearing @ one of Where 2.0′s, old guard #geowankers complaining ab new crowd #geowebchat

@dbouwman Dec 03, 12:18pm @ajturner when I first made maps, some would have accused me of being into “geo-neon” #notacartographer #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:18pm @michael_d_gould but it’s a question–what does “neo-geo-web” replace in the geography curriculum? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:19pm @geographiliac If you’re 5499 “other geographical specialities” can we have “neo-other geographical specialties”? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:19pm @geographiliac @michael_d_gould I’m sure “other” gets thrown in the granting agency trash. Or reviewed by interns #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:19pm is neogeography or geoweb “GIS”? It seems more critical than just GIS. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:19pm I remember rubylith, scribe coat, and zip-a-tone. Makes me appreciate digital (neo-) mapping. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:19pm @geographiliac nice to meet you 5499. I’m 3399 #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:20pm and if GIS, which is broadly accepted has no UNESCO class, how can we expect specializations to have one? #geowebchat

@dillonm Dec 03, 12:20pm Love this RT @geographiliac: @peterajohnson I teach a class on “print cartography”… I am not sure why. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:20pm @mikehyslop @geographiliac I wanted to be the 1st retro-neogeographer but @ajturner, @RichGibson have me beat #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:20pm @geographiliac How is GIS by definition not critical? could be, or not. depends on who. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:20pm @michael_d_gould I’m also 5404–regional geography of the internet. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:21pm A map is a map is a map. Mode of production & tech change gives rise to tribal tendencies & new players like being ‘different’ #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:21pm I believe I am 5703. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:22pm agreed – it’s difficult to pick just ONE UNESCO category. Must research. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:22pm @geographiliac neogeography, geoweb is more critical than GIS only in geography. NOT in industry or other academic disciplines #geowebchat

@rastrau Dec 03, 12:22pm .@kennethfield what we put on maps or what we consider mappable has changed, though, no? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:22pm Cyber infrastructure, and by association, cyberGIS, is getting attention ($$) from NSF. Discuss. #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:23pm @kennethfield I don’t agree with that. A map is not just a map. It really depends on what it was meant for. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:23pm @re_sieber is industry particularly critical? #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:24pm .@rastrau I don’t think its changed as much as some would like you to believe #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:24pm @kennethfield I find myself rarely using the word map in my day to day work. #geowebchat

@PetersonGIS Dec 03, 12:24pm I’m loving Special Snowflake. cc @peterajohnson #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:24pm @michael_d_gould hey, if you can hop on that bandwagon, why not? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:24pm @michael_d_gould also a few job ads mention cyberGIS rather than one of the terms we would prefer to classify ourselves as #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:24pm @michael_d_gould there’s a reason for that ;-) #geowebchat

@ajturner Dec 03, 12:25pm @rastrau actually, I think we’ve gone back to what we used to map. personal narratives… @kennethfield #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:25pm @michael_d_gould #cyberGIS, outgrowth of another NSF catogory #cyberinfrastructure is receiving millions of research funds #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:26pm @ajturner wouldn’t that imply this isn’t something new… or neo? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:26pm @peterajohnson so is it You are what you research, or You are what’s being funded? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:27pm @geographiliac Many professions are reflective, in that they develop best practices, ethics #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:27pm @michael_d_gould @peterajohnson I think you are what you research, but you may or may not be funded… #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:27pm @michael_d_gould @peterajohnson and what you research is often what IS being funded. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:28pm @kennethfield isn’t a map just a casual graphical viz of a subset of spatial database? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:29pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield That’s exactly how ol’ Gerardus would have put it :) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:30pm @re_sieber Many engineering fields and GISP have ethical components to their prof programs. does that make them critical? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:30pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber I don’t think ethics and critiques are the same. #geowebchat

@SWolfinbarger Dec 03, 12:30pm I’m a GIScientist/practitioner. I agree w @peterajohnson that it’s easy to bc a ‘special snowflake’ & hard to employ! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:31pm Most neo-mapping is a reinvention of some paleo-stuff just in different clothes. Fashions change. You just gotta roll with it #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:31pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield Map as output of db argument doesn’t work w funding agencies & my colleagues. Map still powerful #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:31pm @re_sieber you had a good critical point at AAG2013 about what is being taught to (some) undergrads in GIS class. remember? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:33pm @geographiliac @michael_d_gould Yes, ethics & critiques arent same but they are good start for industry #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:34pm @michael_d_gould casual graphical viz? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:34pm @kennethfield you’re thinking of those Cindy Lauper remakes of Stones and Dylan hits, right? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:35pm @michael_d_gould Hm, I slag off so much of my discipline (including what I myself do), I kind of forget my own critiques! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:35pm @michael_d_gould you’re in danger of straying quite some way from #geowebchat into #sadchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:35pm @kennethfield happenstance ;) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:37pm @re_sieber I also forget the details so I will bait you no more. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:38pm so think back to the paleo definition of GIS, and tell us what the new stuff does that’s, er, new. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:40pm @geographiliac, @peterajohnson interesting that teaching lags so far behind what’s considered hot in funding circles #geowebchat

@ajturner Dec 03, 12:40pm Names are a container to reference multi-faceted concepts. neologisms are a tool to conceive reformulation of those concepts #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:41pm @michael_d_gould Engage the lay public? :) #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:41pm There’s nothing particularly new. Only the delivery of maps/geospatial data has increased in volume, velocity, and distribution. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:41pm @michael_d_gould I’m not sure it’s the what that’s new, but how, e.g., web processing & content delivery #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:42pm The basic functions of geo remains: navigation, visualization of spatial relations, and data creation #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:42pm not just the delivery, but the creation and dissemination…crowdsourced, participatory, mobile, democratizing, sharable, etc. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:42pm @michael_d_gould cyber focuses on architectre; geoweb on cloud, viz; GIS on algorithms &db. Neogeo focuses on disdain for paleo? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:43pm It’s the same old thing on a new platform… hence geoweb is an appropriate name. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:43pm @ajturner I’m using that in my next grant application. Not. ;-) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:43pm @vtcraghead so one could say that GIS now engages the lay public. How to define where old ends and new starts? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:43pm As my remote sensing prof said, “We’re either lumpers or splitters.” #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:44pm I wrote a blog on fallacy of new cartography a while ago. offers my perspective …save for post #geowebchat…

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:45pm @spara lumping & splitting applies to any discipline where you need to categorize… #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:45pm @re_sieber or did #geoweb swipe things from neogeography’s garage while it was on holiday? #geowebchat

@mapserving Dec 03, 12:45pm @spara hey I thought I was the only one with actual geo training these days lol. #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:46pm How can we incorporate new tech to finally give voice to white men on the internet? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:46pm @mikehyslop This discussion splits hairs centered around technique. I’d rather lump and move on. #geowebchat

@eknalprev Dec 03, 12:46pm #geowebchat isn’t it becoming more and more about low and high end use of Geo that separates users?

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:46pm @spara Maybe maps are either lumpers or splitters, too. John Krygier: “Are Maps Autistic?”… #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:47pm What can the geoweb teach us about racial bias among and between different cat breeds? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:47pm @michael_d_gould @ajturner #geowankers originated term geoweb. Don’t know if it’s a separate tribe from #neogeography #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:48pm @michael_d_gould I would have called it a generational thing, but the tech timescale has compressed everything. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:48pm @re_sieber #Geoweb is somewhat different from #neogeography, but I see it mostly as an academic-friendly rebranding of neogeo #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:48pm @re_sieber talk about a tribe name to help in your grant proposal! #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:49pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber I thought the privilege of being an academic was deciding what to name things. #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:49pm Are you part of the #georatti ? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:50pm @geographiliac @re_sieber But it’s the privilege of the non-academics to completely ignore us. :) #geoweb has not caught on. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:50pm @geographiliac well said, 5499 #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:50pm @mappingmashups but how many people are watching #geowebchat?

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:51pm All the industry people I work with know that what they do is not #GIS, but they don’t call it #geoweb either. It’s just #geo. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:52pm @mappingmashups Geoweb could certainly use a rigorous definition. Or did I miss that conference paper? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:52pm @geographiliac @mappingmashups There’s probably a correlation between lunch and #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:52pm @spara @mappingmashups only for those of us on the west coast! #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:52pm are any neo-geo-webbers participating in the CartoDB webinar? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:54pm @re_sieber Maybe. I’d also attribute to less neogeo outfits like Galdos. Today @MapBox, @cartoDB etc wouldn’t say #geoweb. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Dec 03, 12:54pm @geographiliac I am. :) #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:54pm @geographiliac I am, too! #geowebchat

@jimmyrocks Dec 03, 12:54pm Are mobile apps still considered geo”web” even if they don’t use anything coming over http? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:54pm @mappingmashups @geographiliac Do the @stamen ppl consider themselves a tribe? Do they hold the mantle of true geography? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:55pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups I thought of @stamen as neo-cartographers…. #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:56pm If neogeography is the way forward, can we keep a paleogeography for those who long for a simpler time? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:56pm @re_sieber good question. Our AAG panel assumes most people in the room will be geographers. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:56pm @re_sieber @geographiliac I think @stamen, @MapBox, @cartoDB, etc maybe see themselves as a “#geo” tribe. But not “geographers” #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:56pm @geographiliac @re_sieber @mappingmashups @stamen Is @MapBox a tribe as well? How about @cartoDB tribe? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:57pm @geographiliac @re_sieber I still don’t know what to do with “#neocartography”. But why not? #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:58pm Will the neogeoweb finally bring stalking to the masses? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:58pm @simonchabel Already has #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:58pm There’s definitely a #geobeers #geobreakfast #geomeetup #geoHH #geomob tribe. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:59pm @re_sieber in Tampa (panel session) should we have a giant whiteboard and have attendees draw venn diagrams? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:00pm @jimmyrocks I definitely include mobile apps as part of the geo “web” of data. I like that “web” can be a broad term #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 1:00pm @mappingmashups #geobeers , something we can all agree on! What a fitting near ending of this #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 1:00pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber Whiteboard? Please, it should be done collaboratively online using d3 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:00pm .@eknalprev I think most of the tribal talk is where one is in rung in the geo app/software user/developer ladder #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:02pm @spara @michael_d_gould d3 likely outside experience of many attendees @ our #AAG2014 panel on geo tribes #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:02pm When is the @cartoDB thing happening? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 1:02pm @mappingmashups @cartoDB now. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 1:02pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:03pm As @michael_d_gould points out, we are wrapping up today’s #geowebchat. Feel free to keep chatting, though. Transcript will follow soon.

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:03pm .@geographiliac @mappingmashups I retain the academic privilege to decide what to name things, no matter how irrelevant #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 1:03pm Thanks for organizing @re_sieber, @michael_d_gould and @mappingmashups !!! #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Dec 03, 1:04pm @re_sieber I think it’s more what your background was. To a first approximation: Were you a dev or a GIS person first? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:05pm Fun #geowebchat today battling over which geo tribes are in, out, relevant or not

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 1:05pm Thanks everybody. More fun, live, in Tampa next April @aag. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:06pm I love it! #geowebchat RT @nelson: @mappingmashups I’m partial to the phrase “#nogis”, but it’s mildly insulting.

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:07pm @nixzusehen I was a developer b4 I returned to university. But my tech in university was mostly GIS. #geowebchat

@enf Dec 03, 1:11pm @nelson @mappingmashups Reminding me of @migurski’s excellent #nogis presentation from a few years ago:… #geowebchat

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Next #geowebchat, geoweb tribes redux: December 3, 2013

Do you study the Geoweb, or CyberGIS? Are you a neogeographer or a neocartographer or do you find yourself in the “paleo-” camp? What are the differences between terms like Maps 2.0 and GIS 2.0, or between VGI, CCGI, f-VGI, and Ambient GI? What about new spatial media, cybercartography, wiki-mapping, or the cyberspatial web? What’s the difference between GIS/2 and Alt.GIS? And can you remember the last time anyone said “map hacks” or “mapping mashups”?

In the next #geowebchat we will revisit the debate(s) over terminology and (sub)disciplinary identity. What is at stake when we argue over naming things? How do the terms we use influence the way we undertake our research or build our tools? Do we risk creating new disciplinary ghettoes, limiting the scope of colleagues we might learn from or narrowing the audiences for our own work? Does this proliferation of names accurately reflect divisions within the community of geoweb researchers and practitioners, or do they paper over other differences that are harder to describe or pin down?

This chat foreshadows a panel discussion that Michael Gould and Renee Sieber are organizing for the 2014 Association of American Geographers annual meeting. The conversation will also revisit some of the same ground as an earlier geowebchat which took place in March of 2012 (although reading the transcript of that chat is not required to participate in this one).

As usual the chat takes place on Twitter for one hour on Tuesday, December 3, starting at 12pm PST (3pm EST, 8pm GMT). Just follow the hashtag #geowebchat to participate or follow along.

For more information about #geowebchat, and to read transcripts of previous chats, go here:

I look forward to chatting with you!

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping, Networks | Leave a comment