#geowebchat transcript, 1 July 2014: Vector cartography part 2

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 8:35am Today on #geowebchat: part 2 of our chat about vector-based web cartography mappingmashups.net/2014/06/17/geo… Join us at 12pm PDT, Tues July 1!

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:00pm Welcome to our #geowebchat about vector mapping! We’re continuing the chat from last time: mappingmashups.net/2014/06/17/geo… All are welcome to join.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:01pm If you want to join #geowebchat, just include the hashtag in all your tweets. tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat is a handy tool, too.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:01pm And if you want to ignore these #geowebchat tweets, see if your twitter client has the ability to mute hashtags.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:03pm I’ve been browsing WebGL map implementations for #geowebchat: There’s the new @Mapbox GL, cool stuff from @mapzen, also @GLMapFramework

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:05pm At the end of the last #geowebchat, @professorlemeza post this great @mapzen demo: vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.757… Has anyone played with it yet?

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:09pm @mappingmashups @professorlemeza @mapzen #geowebchat love it. What’s the vector format like

@erictheise Jul 01, 12:10pm @mappingmashups, been watching progress of @professorlemeza & @meetar’s demos, looking at learningwebgl.com when i can. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:12pm @bohuang3d Here is the repository for the @mapzen demo @professorlemeza posted: github.com/meetar/tangram… cc @meetar #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:13pm @bohuang3d Does your SenseEarth.com site use WebGL? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:16pm Also, in last #geowebchat we talked mainly about vector data tiles and WebGL, but arguably #d3js is another vector revolution in web maps…

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:16pm RT @woolie: @bohuang3d @mapzen @professorlemeza @meetar Awesome elevator animation, reminds me of :) pic.twitter.com/Pz1XrMWDTw #geowebchat

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:17pm #geowebchat Been experimenting with consuming Vector Tiles in a @LeafletJS canvas layer. Works well! Also looking at @mapzen work!

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:17pm I mean, @jasondavies’s and @mbostock’s demos like jasondavies.com/maps/transitio… are unimaginable with raster mapping #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:19pm @apollolm Cool! What styling language are you using for your vector data in canvas? #geowebchat

@woolie Jul 01, 12:19pm #geowebchat I’m experimenting with Mapbox vector tiles to make interactive maps from census data.

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:21pm @mappingmashups Adobe Flash. Hehe me outcast #geowebchat

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:23pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat Brute forcing it now using regular canvas stroke and fill properties. Will use converter from nodeTiles soon.

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:24pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat Nodetiles github project uses a CartoCSS parser to convert to canvas styling…slick.

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:25pm @apollolm Interesting! I’m curious if CartoCSS will be able to evolve with the vector era? I know it won’t be part of #MapboxGL #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:28pm @mappingmashups @apollolm My understanding is dom elements using Canvas is not implemented with webgl right #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:34pm @professorlemeza @apollolm Is this the nodetiles project you’re talking about? github.com/nodetiles #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:36pm So, @mapzen’s vector rendering is built on @OpenScienceMap. (opensciencemap.org) Anyone here have any experience with that? #geowebchat

@allafarce Jul 01, 12:37pm @mappingmashups @professorlemeza @apollolm Aside, that’s the fine work of @codeforamerica folks @bensheldon @Mr0grog @yuletide #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:38pm @mappingmashups @mapzen @OpenScienceMap I love how the coast lines are rendered and wonder how it’s done. #geowebchat

@apollolm Jul 01, 12:40pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat yes, that is the project. In nodetiles-core/libs there is a cartoRenderer.js file. I think the logic is there

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:40pm @bohuang3d @OpenScienceMap Are you talking about the coastlines in the @mapzen demo? Can you share a screenshot? #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:44pm Only on Android. Web renderer is a new WebGL project MT @mappingmashups: @mapzen’s vector rendering is built on @OpenScienceMap #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:44pm Talking about styling languages, has anyone used #MapCSS? Looks like that’s what @GLMapFramework uses. Any better for vectors? #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:44pm @mappingmashups @OpenScienceMap @mapzen Perhaps vector.io/vector-map/#ma… #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:46pm @bohuang3d @mappingmashups @mapzen we construct a polyline outline around the coastline polygons and style those separately #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:47pm @mappingmashups @OpenScienceMap @mapzen These coastline as OSM Ways would span many tiles. Perhaps some processing to split? #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:49pm @bohuang3d @mappingmashups the geometry is simplified and split into vector tiles server-side mapzen.com/vector/ #geowebchat

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 12:50pm @professorlemeza @mappingmashups @mapzen And split the east coast polyline into the millions of tiles it goes through? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:53pm @bohuang3d Could you start with some subdivided coast polygons like these? openstreetmapdata.com/data/land-poly… #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:53pm @bohuang3d @mappingmashups @mapzen oh, the coastline polyline is added as each tile is rendered client-side #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:54pm @mappingmashups @bohuang3d that’s exactly what we do! :) see mapzen.com/vector/ for details #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 12:54pm RT @woolie: @professorlemeza Is there a configuration to generate the entire set and cache as mbtiles for easier deployment? #geowebchat

@tmcw Jul 01, 12:54pm @mappingmashups @apollolm moving towards JSON-encoded styles. CartoCSS was built around Mapnik’s rendering model exclusively #geowebchat

@tmcw Jul 01, 12:55pm @mappingmashups @GLMapFramework the CSS metaphor for maps doesn’t have the same ring it used to + JSON tooling is far better #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jul 01, 12:56pm @woolie @bohuang3d @mappingmashups I’m sure it could be, we are refreshing the OSM data daily and regenerating tiles on demand #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 1:01pm Well, we’re at the end of another #geowebchat. Thanks for joining, and enjoy the #worldcup game everyone!

@mappingmashups Jul 01, 1:03pm Next #geowebchat will be on July 15, at the same time. Topic TBD. See you all then!

@apollolm Jul 01, 1:03pm #geowebchat how is interaction with WebgL handled? Click events? Mouse over?

@bohuang3d Jul 01, 1:03pm @mappingmashups I think I’ll depend on Brett’s product ;). SenseEarth.com is more for fun and would love any solution. #geowebchat

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#geowebchat transcript, 17 June 2014: Vector cartography part 1

@mappingmashups Jun 16, 10:26am Tomorrow on #geowebchat, let’s talk about vector cartography. @Mapbox GL, the new @googlemaps, #iOSmaps & more! Tue Jun 17, 12pm PDT.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 11:59am Hey everyone, it’s time for our bi-weekly #geowebchat. Today’s topic is vector maps, but I wonder if everyone’s busy watching #worldcup?

@lyzidiamond Jun 17, 12:00pm .@mappingmashups Oooh, vector maps! #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 17, 12:00pm .@mappingmashups that’s what two screens are for, one for #geowebchat, one for #WorldCup

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:00pm @lyzidiamond I know, right? But I’d rather have a decent chat about vector maps, so if #geowebchat is a ghost town I’ll bump it 2 weeks.

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:01pm @lyzidiamond @mappingmashups Oh wow, super-topical today Alan. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:02pm #geowebchat Does Google use tiled vectors, or have they completely broken out of the paradigm?

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:03pm @vtcraghead The tile paradigm? I don’t know. Anybody recall seeing how the data loads from a slow connection? #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:04pm i’m not much of a sports fan, tho have to say being in brooklyn bars during #WorldCup was pretty energizing; today i watch #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:05pm @mappingmashups Haven’t inspected yet. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:06pm But at this point with vector rendering, tiles aren’t that interesting… they’re just the transmission medium. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:06pm am i alone in thinking that new google vector maps are brittle; slow-loading, erratic, “rats, webGL encountered a problem”? #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:07pm Wouldn’t vector tiling also include generalization at different levels? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:08pm @spara Probably for optimization purposes, but hey – Google doesn’t care about processing limits, right? :) #geowebchat

@lyzidiamond Jun 17, 12:08pm Do vector tiles allow us to move outside of the preset zooms that exist with raster tiling? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:10pm @spara True, even if there are no longer proper zoom levels, you would still want to generalize at various zooms. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:12pm @erictheise I haven’t had much trouble with them… but sometimes, yes. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 17, 12:15pm they’re well-behaved on my iphone, @mappingmashups, but full-screen, clicks often queue up & ux is disturbingly unpredictable. #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:16pm Any critiques of Mapbox GL yet? #geowebchat

@pwramsey Jun 17, 12:17pm @spara There does appear to be a whole server side that goes undiscussed #geowebchat

@mapzen Jun 17, 12:17pm Want to experiment with vector tiles? Check out our new open/free OSM vector service: mapzen.com/vector #geowebchat

@mapmeld Jun 17, 12:18pm I get the GeoJSON vector tiles like OSM’s that crayonmap.herokuapp.com uses. MapBox is using protobuf which I don’t understand #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Jun 17, 12:19pm @pwramsey @spara Perhaps there could be some illumination to that end with MapboxGL? Or are they locked into tiled vectors? #geowebchat

@cartocalypse Jun 17, 12:20pm @lyzidiamond you could use the data to render any scale but you would probably pre-filter the data based on a target zoomlevel #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 12:20pm @pwramsey @spara we’re cutting simple vector tiles @mapzen w/postgis ST_SimplifyPreserveTopology by zoom: mapzen.com/vector #geowebchat

@spara Jun 17, 12:20pm @mapmeld The return of strong typing! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:21pm @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond The Mapbox Streets vectors are generalized at zooms lower than z14, but at 14 they have full detail #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:24pm For vector map details, @Mapbox has been blogging lots mapbox.com/blog/drawing-a… mapbox.com/blog/placing-l… mapbox.com/blog/text-sign… #geowebchat

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 12:25pm @mappingmashups @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond in my limited experience their z14 tiles can be too heavy – so many buildings at z14 #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Jun 17, 12:25pm isn’t mapboxgl ios only at the moment (for the public)? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:26pm RT @tmcw: @cartocalypse @lyzidiamond they’re always generalized to a zoom, otherwise osm overnoding would cripple speeds #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:28pm RT @npdoty: I’d say tiles are interesting as data sources: what gets sent, how is it represented, whence it came. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:31pm RT @spara: @mappingmashups @npdoty I think it’s interesting that the client is receiving data (shades of WFS, bite my tongue) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @tmcw: @colocarto @vtcraghead @pwramsey @spara vector renderers use the new style spec: github.com/mapbox/mapbox-… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @tmcw: @pwramsey the style spec is still very heavily under development – we opted for opening source early. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:32pm RT @npdoty: @lyzidiamond Yes! Arbitrary zoom levels, even down to the absurd 1:1, e.g. npdoty.name/onexactitude #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:33pm Hey everyone talking about vector maps, remember to include #geowebchat in your tweets so we can all follow the discussion

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:38pm @mappingmashups @spara @npdoty vector tiles are more data than png is, but they are definitely not anything like raw data #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:41pm @tmcw @spara @npdoty Yeah, a lot of selection goes into making the vector data tiles that will influence how they’re rendered #geowebchat

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:42pm @mappingmashups @spara @npdoty not to say there aren’t useful externalities. our reverse geocoder runs on vector tiles. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:42pm As @professorlemeza points out there are _all_ the bldgs at z14 but you can’t filter by area because the area field isn’t incl. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:43pm RT @tmcw: tiles: simplified for zoom, subsetted attributes, no invisible features, coord are relative to tile 0,0 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:50pm So, what new cartographic styles are made possible by vector mapping? Things like Burning Map: maps.stamen.com/burningmap/#12… #geowebchat

@katenesse Jun 17, 12:52pm Only in Chrome? RT @mappingmashups: What new cartographic styles enabled by vector mapping? Burning Map: maps.stamen.com/burningmap/#12… #geowebchat

@bgolder Jun 17, 12:54pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat vector tiles are easier to edit with spatial transformations. So having a 3D camera seems a bit easier.

@spara Jun 17, 12:55pm @mappingmashups I like that! Can be used to symbolize the fuzziness of a boundary. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:55pm @katenesse Well, Burning Map was made two years ago. I bet today we could’ve made it work on more browsers. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 12:57pm @bgolder Could you elaborate on this? I’m not following. #geowebchat

@tmcw Jun 17, 12:58pm @mappingmashups @bgolder pseudo-3d tilt-cam works well with gl, and label placement / sizing is much better than before #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:00pm Well, everyone, thanks for joining today’s semi-distracted #geowebchat. I’m sure this won’t be the last time we talk about vectors.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:01pm Today’s #geowebchat transcript will be posted here shortly: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/. Next chat will be July 1st, same time.

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:01pm @tmcw @mappingmashups #geowebchat think of the “aerial” views used by navigation software.

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:05pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat you can programmatically adjust the screen coordinates of geometry, so you can transform it based on a viewpoint

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:07pm @bgolder Ahh, I see. I was confused by the idea of “editing” them… but transforming and modifying vectors makes sense. #geowebchat

@bgolder Jun 17, 1:13pm #geowebchat I imagine that dynamic styles like Burning Map could be useful to show motion or activity, perhaps with real-time updates

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:38pm RT @michalmigurski: Half of cartography is in data: feature selection, generalization, layering. Lessons of vector tiles. #geowebchat

@woolie Jun 17, 1:41pm Need to set a reminder for next #geowebchat. Missed great discussion of vector tiles, which I’m glad to report are awesome.

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:41pm RT @PetersonGIS: @michalmigurski But that’s not a lesson specifically of vector tiles: it’s always been half of cartography. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 17, 1:42pm @woolie If you need a #geowebchat reminder, add this to your calendar program: webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal

@professorlemeza Jun 17, 2:58pm @mappingmashups geom deformations & pixel shaders: vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.761… vector-map.mapzen.com/#mapzen,40.759… #geowebchat

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#geowebchat transcript, 3 June 2014: Indoor mapping and navigation

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 10:35am Today’s #geowebchat: indoor mapping and navigation. Join us at 12pm PDT, 3pm EDT, 8pm BST. Spread the word!

@erictheise Jun 03, 11:22am i’ll participate. if i can find my way to the computer. MT @mappingmashups Today’s #geowebchat: indoor mapping and navigation. 12pm PDT

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:00pm Our #geowebchat about indoor maps & navigation is starting now! All are welcome to join in. Remember to include the hashtag in your tweets.

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:01pm If you want to ignore our biweekly #geowebchat, see if your twitter client can mute hashtags. To follow along, try: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:03pm Here’s a recent story that got me thinking about indoor nav: bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/map… Using buildings’ magnetic fingerprints #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:05pm anyone have a handle on the state of #OSM indoor mapping? wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Indoor_Ma… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:05pm And of course there’s been a lot of work done on using WiFi for indoor positioning: directionsmag.com/articles/10-th… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:10pm i thought about doing some indoor tagging in #OSM for the vendors in our #FerryBuilding before today’s #geowebchat, but… confusing.

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:10pm Here’s an interesting proposal (from 2012) for an OpenIndoorMaps: blog.openstreetmap.org/2012/01/19/ope… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:11pm I wonder, does @OSMBuildings have any opinions on the standard tagging for features _inside_ buildings? #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Jun 03, 12:12pm @mappingmashups The scary thing abt indoor mapping is the potential for targeted ads when near products. Useful but invasive. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:12pm plus, there’s a strong pull to trace floor plan image , and then you hit the copyright concerns. some feign ignorance, no? #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Jun 03, 12:13pm @mappingmashups That should have read: maps useful, ads invasive #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:13pm @mikehyslop Good point. Although is it much worse than the potential of targeted ads when walking past shops on the street? #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Jun 03, 12:14pm @mappingmashups No, the annoyance would be the same. Maybe more pervasive – time will tell… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:15pm @erictheise Yeah, licensing for floor plans is certainly a concern. But in many cases building owners might want to share #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:16pm .@googlemaps lets you upload floor plans for display in Google Maps. Licensing is not immediately clear. google.com/maps/about/par… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:16pm RT @bgrassbluecrab: @mikehyslop i wonder the degree to which indoor maps useful for planning vs. capturing static indoor space #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:16pm @mappingmashups @mikehyslop sticking w/my example of @SFFerryBuilding, if i’m there, i’m on food mission & open to deals & ads. #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:16pm .@mappingmashups @re_sieber We should now try an old school Bunge expedition vs. #OpenData expedition on the same county/city #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:18pm @mappingmashups @erictheise wonder about the licensing for public spaces’s floorplan anyways, since they are out in the open #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:18pm .@mappingmashups @re_sieber like one team fieldwork only, no downloads, the other #OpenData only, to see how different the story #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:19pm But maybe surveying interior spaces is becoming easy enough without needing the official floor plans: gizmodo.com/just-tap-your-… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:21pm a long ago meetup w/@micello, concerns raised about posting, e.g., airport terminal maps, convention centers, @bgrassbluecrab #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:21pm apps and fieldwork only get places public can go, magnetic/wifi methods might map out secure spaces (like bank vaults?) #geowebchat

@jonahadkins Jun 03, 12:22pm @mappingmashups My Company Is Starting To Some Cool Stuff With That and iBeacons gisiindoors.com cc @GISiIndoors #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:22pm .@mappingmashups @re_sieber like next #AAG Chicagoans presenting their fieldwork vs. the rest of the world relying on #OpenData. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:25pm @jonahadkins @GISiIndoors Interesting! I haven’t looked closely at iBeacon. Opens questions of interoperability indoors, too. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:26pm @bgrassbluecrab Yeah, mapping indoor spaces could reveal voids in buildings w/ secret and/or sensitive stuff. Hidden passages! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:28pm @MGeomatic What do you think the Bunge-like approach would be for indoor mapping? I wonder… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:28pm ha, just submitted a typo fix pull request to yarl/osmtools-indoor; who says it’s all conceptual in a #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:31pm .@mappingmashups sorry about that, I was thinking more to indoor mappers vs. navigating mappers… #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:33pm .@mappingmashups however, I guess that approach would be to map people & patterns indoor rather than 3D corridors & escalators #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:34pm @MGeomatic Don’t be sorry! #geowebchat topics can span multiple weeks and remix/intertwine!

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 12:40pm .@mappingmashups the fact is there’s something frustrating about uploaded indoor/laser 3D maps: they seem so sterile & sanitized #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:44pm @MGeomatic Indeed. Need to think of what indoor countermapping might look like. How to make indoor maps tell multiple stories? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:45pm I’m certainly discovering new twitter accounts to follow with this #geowebchat: @indoorLBS, @GISiIndoors…

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:48pm I almost forgot this fascinating viz tracking movements w/in a conference by following wifi MAC addresses apps.opendatacity.de/relog/ #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:51pm .@mappingmashups @MGeomatic @SFFerryBuilding would make another good example: as transit hub, shopping area, or clean bathrooms #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:53pm @bgrassbluecrab @MGeomatic Yes! And @SFFerryBuilding is a place w/ multiple publics using it, workers, travelers, customers, etc #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 12:54pm (I’ll take the silence in this part of #geowebchat to mean that everyone is busily adding indoor features to @openstreetmap as we speak)

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:55pm .@mappingmashups @openstreetmap to be honest, I’ve never indoor mapped. I usu. get where I’m going and put the phone away #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 12:58pm @mappingmashups @MGeomatic I actually want to do @SFFerryBuilding as a test case. Wonder what it would entail #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 03, 12:58pm if i get around to indoor mapping @SFFerryBuilding i’ll write it up. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:01pm @erictheise Sounds great. Or we do a @SFFerryBuilding mapping party sometime #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:02pm So, next #geowebchat is in two weeks, on Tuesday June 17, at the same time. Let me know if you have any topics you’d like us to discuss!

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:02pm Maybe we’ll have some indoor mapping on #openstreetmap to show off at the next #geowebchat?

@erictheise Jun 03, 1:03pm what would be the point, @mappingmashups, you won’t eat the main attraction @hogislandoyster? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:04pm @erictheise I thought the point of @SFFerryBuilding was to visit three different ice cream shops and four cheese places at once! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:04pm @erictheise @SFFerryBuilding (I sense an edit war brewing) #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Jun 03, 1:05pm @mappingmashups @erictheise I’d be game for an @SFFerryBuilding mapping party. I’m usually there for the boats #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 03, 1:06pm As always the transcript of today’s #geowebchat will be posted here shortly: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ Thanks to all who joined!

@erictheise Jun 03, 1:06pm i’m all about the #geobivalves @hogislandoyster, @mappingmashups, but we can agree to disagree. #geowebchat

@MGeomatic Jun 03, 2:12pm .@mappingmashups @bgrassbluecrab on airports, they’re these stimulating insights monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/dutyfree #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/5ol0SAVt0k

@OSMBuildings Jun 03, 2:36pm @mappingmashups Impossible for me to cover indoor at the moment :-( #geowebchat

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#geowebchat transcript, 20 May 2014: navigation using crowdsourced geodata

@mappingmashups May 19, 11:26am Next #geowebchat: navigation w/ crowdsourced geodata! Join the chat Tue May 20 at 12pm PDT. Further reading: stevecoast.com/2014/05/19/why… Pls RT!

@mappingmashups May 19, 12:59pm Here’s another take on crowdsourced (indoor) navigation for our #geowebchat tomorrow: bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/map…

@erictheise May 20, 11:08am TGIS(tructured)T(uesday): @revsnakeens’s #TheNewEdge wmbr.org/WMBR_live_128…. …, #SF siren test, #geowebchat re navigation w/crowdsourced data

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:00pm Welcome to #geowebchat everyone. We’re discussing navigation using crowdsourced geodata (like #openstreetmap)!

@mvexel May 20, 12:00pm signing in to #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:01pm If you want to join our chat, make sure you use the #geowebchat hashtag in all your tweets. If you want to ignore us, mute that hashtag.

@mvexel May 20, 12:01pm using qub.me/KmQxS3 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:02pm This week there’s been some big news with @Telenav launching a new navigation SDK based on OSM: techcrunch.com/2014/05/19/tel… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:02pm According to @SteveC, founder of openstreetmap, this means OSM is now finally ready for prime time: stevecoast.com/2014/05/19/why… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:03pm Welcome @mvexel! Yeah, tweetchat.com is a great site for following along with #geowebchat. Who else is joining us?

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:04pm So, first question for the group: have you tried any navigation apps using OSM data? What were your experiences? #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet May 20, 12:04pm @mappingmashups I’m lurking; may have some comments from the peanut gallery #geowebchat

@jwass2000 May 20, 12:04pm @mappingmashups @SteveC @mvexel Would love to know what criteria was needed/met to deem OSM “ready” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:05pm Also, we can make comparisons with apps like @waze for crowdsourced navigation. #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:06pm ‘ready’ is when it gets almost everyone from A to B reliably #geowebchat

@Fischbob May 20, 12:07pm @sidewalkballet @mappingmashups I’m also here – primarily to listen! Haven’t tried any OSM navigation apps – yet! #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:07pm We tested with a ton of reference routes as well as spent countless hours drive testing #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 20, 12:08pm Used #osmand bicycle off-line navigation works fine in rural areas #geowebchat (Denmark tested) – however like most off-line POIs search

@erictheise May 20, 12:08pm i’m here, not #winningatlife, but eager to see what @mvexel & others have to say. #geowebchat

@petzlux May 20, 12:09pm #geowebchat used navdroyd years ago, worked well in 2011 in romania roadtrip! Ubfortunately got bought by cloudmade who promptly stopped dev

@jwass2000 May 20, 12:09pm @mvexel Right, how to define “reliably”? Missing one-ways, bad speed info, etc. Weird routes can come out which = upset users #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:09pm @neogeografen Interesting, in some ways bike navigation might be easier (?) because turn restrictions are less important… ? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:10pm @neogeografen …but of course bike navigation also needs a lot of special metadata that cars don’t need. #geowebchat

@jwass2000 May 20, 12:11pm @mvexel OK, we’ve looked at MapquestOpen and it can suggest routes 30% slower than Google. Would love to cmp to Telenav #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:12pm And at the last #editathon in SF @accessgeo was working on adding features for accessible pedestrian navigation… #geowebchat

@ShereenaDyer May 20, 12:12pm Hello! I am new and dropping in to listen during lunch. I have used @waze before. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:13pm RT @neogeografen: hard work bike-nav to work in major cities – more rules – oneway for cars – often it’s allow bikes both ways #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:14pm RT @neogeografen: So fx Copenhagen you have to add more meta-data (tags) to get bike-navi to work well. #geowebchat

@erictheise May 20, 12:16pm i’m curious about a lot of things on this topic, but the main one is user feedback on faulty routes and data. @mvexel? #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:16pm reliabilty is about completeness of the data, being able to route across the entire network, no unsafe routes #geowebchat

@cartocalypse May 20, 12:17pm first #geowebchat i happen to catch live. :) i use komoot.de/plan a lot for foot/bike routing, sadly online only. very nice results

@mvexel May 20, 12:18pm @erictheise we will get active (reported) and passive (collected) feedback – both require different approaches #geowebchat

@erictheise May 20, 12:19pm so, @mvexel, passive will compare actual routes w/recommended routes and active… what’s the mechanism? #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:19pm my first #geowebchat in a long long while – thought I should not be missing this one :)

@erictheise May 20, 12:21pm we all remember apple map/routing horror stories such as people driving across active airport runways because they were told to. #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:22pm @erictheise active: people tapping ‘report error’ – how we’ll process that, not sure yet. maproulette? OSM notes? depends… #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:23pm …on actionability mostly – can we actually do anything with the feedback #geowebchat

@erictheise May 20, 12:26pm tiered feedback is needed, w/auth? continuum of people from “thumbs down” to superuser who’ll fire up jsom & repair a relation #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:28pm (Sorry #geowebchat, AFK…)

@betsymason May 20, 12:29pm Is telenav/scout/skobbler the biggest entity/app using OSM? #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:29pm @erictheise the superuser idea I think can be pretty powerful. like data stewards. #geowebchat

@erictheise May 20, 12:31pm also intrigued by @Mapbox’s language about alt metrics: max serendipity/scenery/curves, min climb/fuel gigaom.com/2014/04/21/nav… #geowebchat

@jwass2000 May 20, 12:31pm Real-time traffic big part of mainstream adoption. Does attaching real-time speed info to OSM trigger sharealike? #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:33pm @jwass2000 I don’t think it would #ianal #geowebchat

@spara May 20, 12:34pm New question. Other than OSM, is there any other open source effort that supports door-to-door routing? #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:35pm @spara both open source & open data? I don’t know of one. #geowebchat

@spara May 20, 12:37pm @mvexel Yes open data, I’ve been looking for parcel/door level solutions. #geowebchat

@oeon May 20, 12:37pm Has anyone heard of any projects using OSM data/routing for emergency dispatching/response? #geowebchat

@allafarce May 20, 12:38pm @spara @mvexel You probably already know, but a variety of different routing projects are here: wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routing#D… #geowebchat

@vtcraghead May 20, 12:38pm @oeon Not that I’ve heard of, but it’s one of the “what-ifs” of @hotosm #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:39pm @oeon I saw a system in NL that used OSM basemaps, but not OSM as routing / geocoding back end. #geowebchat

@oeon May 20, 12:40pm @vtcraghead @mvexel I would love to see some disruption in the Computer Aided Dispatching software realm #geowebchat

@jwass2000 May 20, 12:40pm @mvexel Wow. I’m no fan of sharealike but am surprised to hear that #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:41pm @jwass2000 I am actually a fan of share-alike, but we’d have to get the lawyers in here to have that discussion. #geowebchat

@erictheise May 20, 12:41pm .@jwass2000, i recall presentation at @sotmus pdx went into the thinking re sharealike. ryan peterson’s? stateofthemap.us/2012/#schedule… #geowebchat

@spara May 20, 12:42pm @mvexel @oeon So what would it take for an open data solution to be used for emergency response? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead May 20, 12:43pm @oeon @mvexel pgRouting + OSM + radios, pretty much. Also, institutional will :) #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:43pm @jwass2000 There’s already way too much smoke around ODbl / SA and nobody’s seen any fires. #geowebchat

@mvexel May 20, 12:45pm I’m going to have to sign off, thanks for discussion everyone. Happy to discuss more offline. #geowebchat

@cartocalypse May 20, 12:46pm @oeon #geowebchat i know of several voluntary fire brigades (in germany) who at least planned to map fire hydrants in osm for that

@erictheise May 20, 12:48pm hollywood thriller; bad guys inject bad data into osm, count to ten, commit crime, good guys pursuing get routed to #timbuktu. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:55pm RT @neogeografen: If any comes to #sotmeu in Germany next month a guy from Copenhagen will tell about bike-navi project for Cph. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:56pm Thanks for the great discussion everybody. We’re approaching the end of our hour for #geowebchat. Any final thoughts?

@erictheise May 20, 12:57pm i am available for script consulting, all you favoriters, only stipulation is that there be a role in which we cast tom hughes #geowebchat

@GeoPenny May 20, 12:57pm sorry to miss #geowebchat will have to keep my eye out 4 future ones

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:58pm @GeoPenny Thanks for dropping in at the end! #geowebchat happens every 1st and 3rd Tuesday of the month at the same time.

@mappingmashups May 20, 12:59pm Next #geowebchat will be June 3 at the same time (12pm PDT). Topic suggestions and guest hosts welcome!

@mappingmashups May 20, 1:00pm Today’s #geowebchat transcript will be posted at mappingmashups.net shortly. All previous chats are archived there, too.

@erictheise May 20, 1:01pm @mappingmashups, remind @GeoPenny & others about the subscribable webcal calendar! super-useful #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 20, 1:04pm Oh, yeah: subscribe to the #geowebchat webcal here: webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal. Updated w/ upcoming topics as soon as I figure them out!

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#geowebchat transcript, 6 May 2014: the future of #geosocial networking

@mappingmashups May 06, 10:26am Today on #geowebchat: Foursquare, Swarm, & the future of #geosocial networking. theverge.com/2014/5/1/56660… Join us at 12pm PDT, 3pm EDT.

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:02pm Welcome everyone to today’s #geowebchat about geosocial networking. As always, include #geowebchat in your tweets to join the conversation.

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:03pm If you want to ignore #geowebchat, see if your twitter client can mute hashtags (or just wait us out. The chat will be done in an hour)

@erictheise May 06, 12:04pm greetings from #dukecity, aka #albuquerque. was hoping to check @swarmapp out before the chat, but not out yet! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:05pm A recent story that prompted this #geowebchat is @foursquare’s announcement of Swarm: a shift to passive geosocial. theverge.com/2014/5/1/56660…

@re_sieber May 06, 12:06pm Greetings from Montreal. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:06pm @erictheise Yes, @swarmapp isn’t launched yet, but luckily that’s never stopped us from speculating on #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:07pm I tweeted ab @foursquare’s decision to split its app. Everyone’s going after passive social but who’ll generate main content? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:08pm Another story relevant to 4sq/Swarm: thenextweb.com/socialmedia/20… Proprietary DBs of locations are big business. Turf wars loom. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:09pm I also don’t get how useful the passive geosocial, which seems like it’s essentially reduced to lat/long & “sup?” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:10pm @re_sieber Because active geosocial is lat/long + data like “this is good” or “this is bad” or “this place is useful for X”? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:11pm We can start by asking: What is valuable from passive geosocial? Compared to active, user review? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:12pm @re_sieber Well the volume of data is much greater. Plus, you get a more complete view of where people are. Less self-censoring. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:12pm .@mappingmashups That’s my point. Active has more content than passive. #geowebchat @ some point, geospatial contributions must be deliber.

@re_sieber May 06, 12:14pm .@mappingmashups Q2: how do we prevent mission creep in passive geosocial, so it’s not #geosurveillance? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:14pm .@re_sieber It’s true that passive geosocial implicitly assumes #bigdata algorithms will be smart enough to make suggestions. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:15pm Passive geosocial encourages mission creep to #geosurveillance. Passive geosocial is creepy. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:17pm Q3: In a world of geosocial, how do we revive geo-serendipity? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:17pm @re_sieber Yes. But I guess the idea is that people are willing to sign up for #geosurveillance if the pay off is great enough? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:18pm .@mappingmashups Count me as being scared of #bigdata, algorithms and “suggestions” of where I oughta go #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:19pm @re_sieber Is algorithmic serendipity an acceptable substitute? #geowebchat

@sarahmprz May 06, 12:19pm The creeping of passive geosocial is part of what makes it appealing! #geowebchat greetings from vancouver

@erictheise May 06, 12:19pm it’s hard to imagine a way to provide geo-serendipity to people whose overriding concern is geo-privacy. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:19pm .@re_sieber I haven’t really been pleased with any attempts at algorithmic serendipity yet, but don’t see why it’s not possible #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:20pm .@mappingmashups RT “ppl will sign up for #geosurveillance if payoff is great enough” #geowebchat We live in a world of hidden externalities

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:21pm I’ve never successfully had a serendipitous encounter w/ @erictheise at @Rainbow_Grocery despite @foursquare’s best efforts #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:22pm And the #bigdata algorithms of apps like @highlight or @banjo never seemed worth the distraction. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:22pm .@mappingmashups re:”algorithmic serendipity an acceptable substitute?” As long as I can write the algorithms or throw in chaff #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:22pm RT @sarahmprz: serendipitous or not, more of the fun is after the meet-what you make of your connections with the geosocial #geowebchat

@erictheise May 06, 12:23pm true, @mappingmashups, @foursquare should work on vector-of-travel + probability-of-destination algorithms to generate alerts. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:24pm .@sarahmprz @mappingmashups So geosocial becomes the spark. That’s fair, as long as geosocial doesn’t discriminate, redline #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:25pm And then there’s the apps to help you get lost, like Serendipitor… @everyseven was doing some of this for her MFA #geowebchat

@sarahmprz May 06, 12:25pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups descriminate, or become deterministic. how to encourage critical, renewable algorithms? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:27pm Critical algorithms studies. @sarahmprz, I think you’ve created a new field #geowebchat @mappingmashups

@sarahmprz May 06, 12:27pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups public knowledge about coding and open access/wiki apps could be one way #geowebchat

@notoncebut2x May 06, 12:28pm what do people think about @movesapp anyone use it? is it even part of the geosocial? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:29pm Re: vector-of-travel: geosocial is least good at geospatial, as in spatial analysis @erictheise @mappingmashups @foursquare #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:31pm @sarahmprz @mappingmashups More coding skills, yes. But we know the geosocial algorithms won’t be open; they’ll be patented #geowebchat

@sprky217 May 06, 12:33pm “Of shoes and ships and sealing wax. Of cabbages and kings.” Maybe Lewis Carroll accidentally wrote on power and sustainability #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:33pm .@notoncebut2x Yes, many of us use @movesapp. Not quite social, but w/ its acquisition the data will be mined for #geosocial #geowebchat

@erictheise May 06, 12:33pm seems greatest # of people travel in repeating patterns of identifiable clusters, @re_sieber; identify, predict, alert friends. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:37pm .@erictheise Predictive geo patterns,clusters scares me. What happens when Im where Im not predicted to be? W unpredicted ppl? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:38pm @notoncebut2x To me, @movesapp merges lifelogging and geosocial #geowebchat

@erictheise May 06, 12:40pm you are not a number you are a free man [sic]? @re_sieber What happens when Im where Im not predicted to be? W unpredicted ppl? #geowebchat

@notoncebut2x May 06, 12:41pm exactly @mappingmashups , @movesapp has potential to help with those serendipitous encounters people on #geowebchat have been “longing” 4

@re_sieber May 06, 12:42pm Q4: does geosocial create enough skin in the game, ie sufficient effort in meeting ppl? Or does it make it too easy? #geowebchat

@spara May 06, 12:42pm @re_sieber @notoncebut2x How do you use @movesapp for geosocial? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:43pm .@erictheise Well, I’m not No.6, although maybe geosocial will keep me away from the Rovers #geowebchat

@notoncebut2x May 06, 12:44pm @spara @re_sieber facebook purchased them for one #geowebchat

@erictheise May 06, 12:44pm seriously, @re_sieber, if you share info, algorithm may learn & do better next time; if you don’t, you’ve kept yr little secret. #geowebchat

@spara May 06, 12:47pm There’s also OpenPaths openpaths.cc #geowebchat

@erictheise May 06, 12:47pm i do expect reasonably fine-grained control about shutting off prediction/alerting overall or setting levels per friend. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:48pm .@erictheise @re_sieber Now you’ve got me thinking what would the #geosocial equiv. of @getsecret look like? Or is that @Grindr? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:50pm .@mappingmashups @erictheise @Grindr, esp its mobile version is exact opposite of @getsecret #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:52pm Perhaps we need a series of plugins to control for privacy (from acquaintenance, biz, gov) in geosocial #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:53pm .@re_sieber That gets at the problem that almost all social network sites miss (except G+) that indivs have multiple “faces” #geowebchat

@erictheise May 06, 12:54pm that was one of the things yahoo geo did with fire eagle back in the day, @re_sieber, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Eagle #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 12:58pm @erictheise @re_sieber So why is geosocial today still missing that aspect? Too hard to implement? Or biz model is against it? #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 12:59pm BTW, @chengdujin says that Chinese version of @foursquare, #jiepang, is collapsing #geowebchat

@erictheise May 06, 1:00pm would be interesting to get @mojodna’s perspective on that, @mappingmashups, i expect his is an informed opinion. #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 1:00pm .@mappingmashups @erictheise Privacy controls run up against biz model of companies, gov knowing where you are all the time #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 06, 1:02pm Well, we’ve hit the end of another #geowebchat. Thanks all for joining in. Next one is in two weeks: May 20.

@MGeomatic May 07, 12:44pm Mapping the galaxy of tweets of last #geowebchat the future of #geosocial networking bluenod.com/tag/geowebchat @bluenod pic.twitter.com/gsFkYKUAb0

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