#geowebchat transcript, 7 July 2015: #geocoding

@mappingmashups Jul 06, 11:32am Tomorrow (Tues July 7) on #geowebchat, join special guest @philiphubs from @here to talk about #geocoding! Noon PDT, 3pm EDT, 1900 UTC

@here Jul 03, 4:01pm .@philiphubs will host the next #geowebchat! Join the conversation Tuesday, July 7 at 12AM Pacific time mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

@jeresuikkila Jul 07, 11:29am Do you know how your phone converts addresses to coordinates? Join #geowebchat in 30 minutes to chat with experts like @philiphubs

@jeresuikkila Jul 07, 11:48am Knock, knock!

Who’s there?


…, who?

Not who! “Where”!

@erictheise Jul 07, 11:48am will you be dropping by the #geowebchat today, @nixzusehen? it’s about #geocoding and it starts at noon, pacific. twelve minutes from now!

@riordan Jul 07, 11:56am @erictheise You think I’d miss #geowebchat?!

@erictheise Jul 07, 11:58am never doubted for a moment, @riordan. you didn’t miss #geobreakfast east and, come to think of it, neither did @nixzusehen. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:00pm Starting now: our monthly #geowebchat twitter chat! Today’s topic is #geocoding with guest hosts @philiphubs and @jeresuikkila from @here!

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:01pm Hello and welcome to the #geowebchat – Today it’s about geocoding!

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:01pm As always, if you want to join #geowebchat, make sure to include the hashtag in your tweets. If you want to ignore us, just mute the tag.

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:01pm Tools like @TweetChat tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat are a good way to follow along with #geowebchat.

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:02pm Thanks @mappingmashups. My name is Philip and I work at @here as a Product Manager for our Geocoder API. Who is with us today? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:02pm And now, without further ado, let me hand things over to @philiphubs, our guest #geocoding expert! #geowebchat

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:02pm alright #geowebchat #geocoding we’re here, looking forward to your questions

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:03pm and by here I of course mean 41.3966,2.1988 #geowebchat #geocoding

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:04pm @OpenCageData Hah, you already want to talk about #reversegeocoding? :) #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:05pm @philiphubs Greetings from the @mapzen Pelias geocoder team. I wonder what today’s geocoder builder to user ratio’s going to be? #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:05pm @OpenCageData Hola and welcome! Who else do we have? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Jul 07, 12:05pm Lurking. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:06pm @riordan @mapzen Right, you are taking away my first question :) #geowebchat

@Innisfree Jul 07, 12:06pm @JessiBreen I’m lurking too. #geowebchat.

@ChrisSheldrick2 Jul 07, 12:06pm @philiphubs @mappingmashups @here I’m here from @what3words look forward to chatting #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:07pm @riordan, good question. I’m definitely more of a geocoder user than a builder. #geowebchat Although I try to avoid geocoding when I can..

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:07pm So let’s start: Are you a user or a creator of geocoding? #geowebchat

@blackmad Jul 07, 12:07pm @riordan @philiphubs @mapzen might be here. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Jul 07, 12:08pm Occasional user. #geowebchat

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:08pm @ChrisSheldrick2 @philiphubs @mappingmashups @here @what3words Hi Chris, I’m on the keyboard at w3w.co/earliest.saint… #geowebchat

@erictheise Jul 07, 12:08pm i’m a geocode consumer. application developer, sometime cartographer. #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:08pm @blackmad This #geowebchat was kinda made for you.

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:09pm @mappingmashups the rise of mobiles means reverse is now the most common type of geocoding #geowebchat

@Innisfree Jul 07, 12:09pm User – social science research requires geocoding these days. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:10pm @OpenCageData Maybe we should define #geocoding and reverse geocoding? #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:10pm @philiphubs I’m a lot of both. I just joined the Mapzen Pelias team (a little over 2 weeks ago) #geowebchat (1/2)

@erictheise Jul 07, 12:10pm i’ve tried many of free(ish) and open(ish) ones, installed Tiger Geocoder into my postgis, broken terms of service, i confess. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:11pm @OpenCageData @mappingmashups Yes, reverse geocoding is rising in usage from mobile. What is your share? Forward vs. reverse #geowebchat

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:12pm @philiphubs @mappingmashups #geowebchat hmm, just realized I don’t have recent numbers, but reverse is on the rise.

@riordan Jul 07, 12:12pm @OpenCageData Exactly. It’s why Factual’s orienting their product around their reverse geocoder. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:12pm Geocoding is the ability to match addresses to the correct location (latitude and longitude) on a map. Do you agree? #geowebchat

@blackmad Jul 07, 12:13pm Writer of twofishes.net coarse geocoder, ex-google geocoder, seeker/cosnumer of street level geocoding APIs #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:13pm @philiphubs Worked on historical geocoders back @nypl_labs, & search places in 4SQ, Google, Apple Maps every day #geowebchat (2/2)

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:13pm @philiphubs @mappingmashups #geowebchat common use case is app devs. phone tells them coords, they want to show humans an understandable loc

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:13pm Quick defn: #geocoding is taking an address (or descriptive location) and finding coordinates. Reverse is lat/lon -> address. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:13pm Reverse Geocoding gets the next street address or area information for the given geographic coordinate. #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:14pm @OpenCageData @philiphubs @mappingmashups Translating an indecipherable addressing system into a semi-semantic one #geowebchat

@RebeccaSiGo Jul 07, 12:15pm I didn’t know there was a #geowebchat. How to serve breakfast through Twitter?

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:16pm @riordan @philiphubs @mappingmashups #geowebchat yes, hence why we’d love it if others help with this project github.com/OpenCageData/a…

@ChrisSheldrick2 Jul 07, 12:16pm We @what3words have a #geocoder & #reversegeocoder converting 3 word addresses <> coordinates. The 3 words are dictionary words. #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Jul 07, 12:16pm @JessiBreen Lurking club represent. Have spent many hours teaching reverse geocoding on mobile. Less so traditional. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:17pm RT @SamuelLeach Geocoding is finding a boundary for an address. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:18pm RT @ColinReillyNY @philiphubs @mappingmashups @here Hello from NYC DoITT developers of the Geoclient API #geowebchat

@dianashk Jul 07, 12:18pm more pelias people in the house. mostly geocoder builder. user when testing. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:18pm At @here the Geocoder API usage is 90% reverse, 10% forward. But forward geocoding is the more interesting problem to solve #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:19pm @OpenCageData @philiphubs @mappingmashups Hear hear! This only works when we work together and hold hands. #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:20pm For historical texts, geoparsing and forward geocoding has always been the use case, like what @schuyler did with Gutencarte #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:21pm @mappingmashups True. But the best geocoders are those that work with the way humans speak and that’s not always addresses #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:21pm @OpenCageData We’re tremendously excited about the github.com/OpenCageData/a… and can’t wait to contribute. #geowebchat (1/2)

@riordan Jul 07, 12:21pm @OpenCageData This only works when we can empower people to bring local knowledge of the places they care about. Easily. #geowebchat (2/2)

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:21pm @mappingmashups Colloquial, vernacular and informal geographies are essential to good geocoding and geoparsing #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:23pm @vicchi @mappingmashups Show us some examples Gary. I like how Colombia or Salt Lake City addresses work, e.g. 1700 E 1700 S #geowebchat

@jeresuikkila Jul 07, 12:23pm .@ChrisSheldrick2 @what3words we are tweeting from w3w.co/scarcely.path…. today. Otherwise known as Downtown Berkeley #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:24pm cc #geowebchat RT @SamuelLeach @ChrisSheldrick2 @mappingmashups Having the bounding box, or precise boundary useful for quantitative work.

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:24pm @riordan we’re all sitting anxiously refreshing the pull request page! #geowebchat

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:25pm @philiphubs @vicchi @mappingmashups #geowebchat A good example – if I say let’s meet for dinner in Chinatown you prob know what I mean 1/

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:26pm @philiphubs @vicchi @mappingmashups #geowebchat but in most cities that is not an “official” location 2/

@Innisfree Jul 07, 12:27pm Oregon is blank except for Portland. What’s up UO? @SVendetta86 @jblairpdx @map_chicago openaddresses.io #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:27pm @OpenCageData @philiphubs @vicchi @mappingmashups Which comes back to incorporating colloquial geographies into our gazetteers #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:27pm @OpenCageData Or even if “Chinatown” is an official location, people might perceive its boundaries differently from the city. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:27pm @OpenCageData @vicchi @mappingmashups Neighborhood names are definetly one input to geocoding #geowebchat

@mapzen Jul 07, 12:28pm tune into #geowebchat for a fascinating discussion about geocoding (and reverse geocoding!)

@juliansimioni Jul 07, 12:28pm @philiphubs @vicchi @mappingmashups I think the idea is no one thinks “Im at 1600 Pennsylvania av”, just “im at the white house” #geowebchat

@erictheise Jul 07, 12:28pm always find way in grid-addressed city @philiphubs–i’m from chicago–but isn’t navigating a new orleans better for the brain? #geowebchat

@ChrisSheldrick2 Jul 07, 12:28pm @jeresuikkila Great location. That’s one spacious car park. Not to be confused with the lovely scarcely.path.land #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:29pm @mappingmashups @OpenCageData Here in New York we have 3 “Chinatown”‘s. It’s a hard disambiguation #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:30pm @OpenCageData @vicchi @mappingmashups General Zao Chicken anyone? *gettinghungry* #geowebchat

@dianashk Jul 07, 12:31pm if you make geocoders, how do you test it? if you use them, how do compare/evaluate available options? #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:31pm @OpenCageData @philiphubs @mappingmashups And let’s not forget places which don’t have an address because they don’t exist #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:32pm @OpenCageData @philiphubs @mappingmashups Not fictitious places but territories which just don’t have formal addressing ##geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:33pm @ChrisSheldrick2 @jeresuikkila I find that confusing w/ @what3words: w3w.co/scarcely.path…. isn’t near scarcely.path.land #geowebchat

@ChrisSheldrick2 Jul 07, 12:33pm @riordan @OpenCageData Great point on ambiguity. Ambiguity was something we strived to eliminate when creating @what3words #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:33pm @dianashk We have a huge test data set we run every night to ensure we don’t break anything while coding. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:34pm @ChrisSheldrick2 @jeresuikkila And I’m at w3w.co/defeat.labels…. but my coworker at the next desk is quench.nature.tribe #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Jul 07, 12:35pm I’d be curious to hear @R_RoseRedwood thoughts on geocoding ambiguity given his work on street numbering, modernity, etc. #geowebchat

@ChrisSheldrick2 Jul 07, 12:35pm @mappingmashups @jeresuikkila @what3words Is it more or less confusing/error prone than if both were in the same city? #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:35pm Is your input for geocoding typically an address, partial address, place name, a combination of all? #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:35pm @philiphubs @dianashk Which raises another question: how to disambiguate issues in the (ever-changing) data from issues in code? #geowebchat

@juliansimioni Jul 07, 12:35pm @philiphubs how did you build up that dataset? from user querys? manually? how do you decide what your geocoder “should” return? #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:36pm @OpenCageData @philiphubs @mappingmashups Oh & places which officialdom doesn’t recognise – favelas, slums, shanty towns #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:36pm RT @dianashk we’re working on same sort of thing, but trying to make a communal data set for general purpose geocoder testing. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:36pm @riordan @dianashk By doing daily tests we can seperate code changes from data changes. #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:37pm @mappingmashups @SamuelLeach @ChrisSheldrick2 Polygons need geocoding love too and make life easier but are buggers to source #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:38pm @jeresuikkila @ChrisSheldrick2 Good point. @what3words makes a reasonable tradeoff to be more error-resistant #geowebchat

@erictheise Jul 07, 12:38pm throwing this on the heap: any thoughts on @richardf’s @sotmus mention of app where you could walk & say addresses into #osm? #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:38pm @juliansimioni It’s both, a combination of real user queries and “ground truth” data we collected. QA is so important!! #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:39pm @erictheise @richardf @sotmus Audio narration over gps trace is apparently already part of the JOSM workflow (?!). So yeah. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jul 07, 12:40pm (would have to watch @richardf’s talk video or dig out notes, can’t easily find a repo for or mention of that of which i speak) #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:40pm @vicchi @mappingmashups @SamuelLeach @ChrisSheldrick2 Do you mean admin boundaries, cartos, and the like? #geowebchat

@erictheise Jul 07, 12:40pm o, @riordan nails it, thanks! #geowebchat

@ColinReillyNY Jul 07, 12:40pm Proliferation of alias/vanity addresses in NYC is a real problem for us. How do other cities handle? #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:41pm @riordan Careful, once you get @tim_waters started on psychogeography it’s a wild ride but a good one! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:41pm cc #geowebchat RT @dianashk probably one of the most critical things in this space! what are your thoughts on a single public data set?

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:42pm @philiphubs @mappingmashups @SamuelLeach @ChrisSheldrick2 Precisely! But there is no one true map beyond admins #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:42pm @ColinReillyNY Oh, these are common across the globe. Some countries have different names in different languages for same street #geowebchat

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:43pm @riordan @philiphubs @vicchi @mappingmashups #geowebchat any country in particular you’re targeting? Try geocoding India #mypredicitonpain

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:44pm @OpenCageData @riordan @philiphubs @mappingmashups Think globally! It’s the only way on the interwebs these days #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:45pm @ColinReillyNY This is why we have a “normalize names” feature in HERE Geocoder and keep many alternative names in our map data #geowebchat

@dianashk Jul 07, 12:46pm #geowebchat @philiphubs would love to know that as well. we’re trying to cover all the basis by working on NLP as well as address parsing.

@freyfogle Jul 07, 12:46pm @riordan @philiphubs @vicchi @mappingmashups #geowebchat here’s a talk I gave re: our Indian efforts at @nestoria slideshare.net/lokku/geocodin…

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:49pm @dianashk There are various paths. Some do a sort of auto-correction before the index match, others prefer fuzzy matching #geowebchat

@ColinReillyNY Jul 07, 12:49pm @dianashk @philiphubs All above + intersection + blockface #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 12:50pm Attn geo users: There’s a fabulous tool in @freyfogle’s slides to compare (forward geocoding) services gisgraphy.com/compare/ #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:50pm @jeresuikkila @OpenCageData @riordan @philiphubs @mappingmashups That’s a whole other #canofworms #geowebchat

@freyfogle Jul 07, 12:52pm @riordan #geowebchat unfortunately I’m not certain that tool is maintained. The copyright on the page leads me to believe it isn’t

@jeresuikkila Jul 07, 12:53pm @riordan @freyfogle interesting results for that “chinatown” mentioned earlier #geowebchat

@Innisfree Jul 07, 12:53pm RT @riordan Tool for comparing geocoding results. Thanks @freyfogle! gisgraphy.com/compare/ #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:53pm cc #geowebchat RT @riordan: @vicchi @jeresuikkila @OpenCageData @philiphubs @mappingmashups Don’t get me started on Swatch Beats Time

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:55pm @riordan @vicchi @jeresuikkila @OpenCageData @mappingmashups I had one of those! #confessions #geowebchat

@harizh Jul 07, 12:55pm @riordan @freyfogle how do we get a new geocoding service (such as pelias) into gisgraphy? #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 12:56pm Time is nearly up: What do you see needs improvement to make geocoding better? #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:56pm @mappingmashups @riordan @OpenCageData @philiphubs You need to open a can of worms to get data sets essential for geocoding #geowebchat

@OpenCageData Jul 07, 12:56pm @vicchi @mappingmashups @riordan @philiphubs do NOT say licensing, do NOT say licensing, do NOT say licensing #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 12:56pm @OpenCageData @mappingmashups @riordan @philiphubs Licensing. Licensing. Licensing. Don’t dodge the issue. It’s not going away #geowebchat

@freyfogle Jul 07, 12:57pm @harizh @riordan #geowebchat Not a clue. I am just a user, not the maintainer.

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:57pm @vicchi @OpenCageData @riordan @philiphubs Appropriately, we had a #geowebchat about geodata licenses back in Feb: mappingmashups.net/2015/02/03/geo…

@dianashk Jul 07, 12:58pm @ColinReillyNY @philiphubs intersections are really interesting. wonder how important they are globaly. #geowebchat

@iandees Jul 07, 12:58pm Hey #geowebchat, not enough pull requests being opened for github.com/openaddresses/…. Share the data you’ve found!

@riordan Jul 07, 12:59pm @dianashk @ColinReillyNY @philiphubs Intersections is apparently “a thing”. It’s in Google, not in Nominatim. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 12:59pm Thanks to @philiphubs for hosting today’s #geowebchat! We’ve reached the end of our hour, but everyone feel free to keep chatting.

@riordan Jul 07, 1:00pm Seconded. Get in on @openaddresses. Help make it better! #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 1:00pm @riordan @dianashk @ColinReillyNY Oh yes, for HERE Geocoder we have customers doing nothing but intersection geocoding #geowebchat

@ColinReillyNY Jul 07, 1:00pm @riordan @dianashk @philiphubs It’s in Geoclient as well. Represents over 10% of all NYC 311 geocodes. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jul 07, 1:00pm I’ll post the transcript of today’s #geowebchat shortly at mappingmashups.net/geowebchat. Next chat will be the same time, on August 4th. Topic TBD

@philiphubs Jul 07, 1:02pm @dianashk @ColinReillyNY This is why HERE Geocoder also offer the output for cross streets with house no. results #geowebchat

@dianashk Jul 07, 1:03pm @philiphubs NLP will be the next leap in geocoding. as others mentioned, understanding the way people talk about locations #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 1:03pm @philiphubs Ultimately, better open data improves geocoding. We can raise the global baseline; lower everyone’s costs. #geowebchat

@harizh Jul 07, 1:03pm @philiphubs @riordan @dianashk @ColinReillyNY how do you guys do intersections? at the time of data import or at query time? #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 1:04pm Thanks @mappingmashups for this #geowebchat it was great! Thanks to all the participants. For those in the Bay Area, love to meet in person!

@jeresuikkila Jul 07, 1:04pm @dianashk @philiphubs “meet me at the bottom of the stairs of the big white church” always worked for foreigners in Helsinki #geowebchat

@juliansimioni Jul 07, 1:04pm @philiphubs outreach towards orgs with data. there are so many govs with data that could help us if we could just get to it #geowebchat

@riordan Jul 07, 1:00pm Seconded. Get in on @openaddresses. Help make it better! #geowebchat twitter.com/iandees/status…

@philiphubs Jul 07, 1:06pm @harizh @riordan @dianashk @ColinReillyNY We offer both. Put both names in input or in separate fields. #geowebchat

@juliansimioni Jul 07, 1:06pm @philiphubs imagine all the tiny geo teams in muni govs that just need to be helped a bit and could easily open their data #geowebchat

@ColinReillyNY Jul 07, 1:06pm @harizh @philiphubs @riordan @dianashk we process the data on import. #geowebchat the chat that wont end…

@erictheise Jul 07, 1:08pm get on down to a #geobreakfast, @philiphubs, fridays, 8:30-10a, #PorkStoreCafe16thSt across from the Roxie Theater. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 1:08pm @juliansimioni I totally agree! Sourcing data is one of the biggest cost drivers for us at HERE too. We have over 80k sources #geowebchat

@vicchi Jul 07, 1:08pm @mappingmashups Thanks Alan; as always #geowebchat was geotastic!

@philiphubs Jul 07, 1:09pm @erictheise Thanks!! #geowebchat

@dianashk Jul 07, 1:10pm @philiphubs @mappingmashups thanks for hosting and moderating #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jul 07, 1:12pm #geobreakfast latitude: 37.7651215, longitude: -122.4226074 next Friday 8:30-10 am #geowebchat – Thanks @erictheise

@vicchi Jul 07, 1:21pm @dianashk @philiphubs @mappingmashups Perfectly said, #geowebchat is an geo-institution

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#geowebchat transcript, 2 June 2015: Navigation apps

@mappingmashups May 29, 6:41am Join our next #geowebchat about navigation apps, with guest host @nguyenist! Tues June 2, at 12pm PDT, 3pm EDT. Please RT!

@floraandflying May 29, 7:03am Navigation geeks – app builders and deep thinkers plz join #geowebchat Tues. Jun 2, 12 PDT, 3 pm EDT to discuss navigation apps. Cc: @moovit

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 7:03am Today (Jun 2) on #geowebchat we’re discussing navigation apps with guest host @nguyenist. Join the chat at 12pm PDT, 3pm PDT, 20:00 BST.

@nguyenist Jun 02, 8:27am Excited to co-host this afternoon’s #geowebchat w the awesome @mappingmashups! So many thoughts. Ready to geek out.

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:00pm Starting now: our monthly #geowebchat twitter chat! Today’s topic is “navigation apps” with guest host @nguyenist!

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:01pm Our special host @nguyenist (Stephanie Nguyen) works on navigation apps at @golandmark, & is one one the @MaptimeDC organizers! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:01pm As always, to join the chat, make sure you include the hashtag #geowebchat in all your tweets. If you want to ignore us, mute the hashtag!

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:02pm If you’re joining our #geowebchat, feel free to introduce yourself, and let us know what interests you about navigation apps.

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:04pm For some additional reading, we had two related chats about navigation last year: mappingmashups.net/2014/05/20/geo… mappingmashups.net/2014/06/03/geo… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:06pm Oh, and one last thing, it’s easy to follow along with #geowebchat with tools like @TweetChat tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:07pm .@nguyenist, would you like to start off our #geowebchat with your first question?

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:07pm Excited to be a part of today’s discussion. @mappingmashups love the previous #geowebchat s on indoor nav and crowdsourced geo data!

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:09pm Q1 What navigation/mapping apps do you regularly use and why? Take a peek at your phone home screens right now #geowebchat

@neogeografen Jun 02, 12:10pm OsmAnd 2.0 in bicyle or foot mode – off-line navi- + POIs search possible – 400 POIs filter #geowebchat

@neogeografen Jun 02, 12:12pm Also use Garmin maps for bicyle/hiking – based on OSM geodata – #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:12pm google’s what i use when i need step x step directions; apps w/maps include galileo, yelp, swarm, meetup, various transit apps. #geowebchat

@mvexel Jun 02, 12:13pm Scout (US and global), OSMAnd #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:13pm .@neogeografen Interesting. I’ve never used Garmin maps. I do have the Garmin GPS device. Works well in the city? #geowebchat

@jwass2000 Jun 02, 12:14pm @nguyenist For nav, I use beta version of @mapkin app, obviously :) #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:14pm i’d use @Chimani more if i camped and went hiking more. on the roadmap for this year. #geowebchat

@neogeografen Jun 02, 12:15pm @nguyenist My Garmin have better GPS chips than my smart phone – so navi in cities more precis #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:16pm is it a spoiler to ask about the current coverage of @golandmark, @nguyenist? #geowebchat

@neogeografen Jun 02, 12:16pm @nguyenist You can try Garmin OSM based maps download here – bicycle, car or hiking options garmin.openstreetmap.nl #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:17pm .@mvexel What makes Scout unique and your app of choice? I haven’t used it but would love your thoughts. #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:19pm @mappingmashups Another vote for Scout! @mvexel Similarly a study asking 30+ people about their apps: medium.com/@nguyenist/5-o… #geowebchat

@mvexel Jun 02, 12:20pm @nguyenist Well I am kind of biased because I help make it. But it is the first mass market nav app to use OSM. #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jun 02, 12:20pm I’m using the HERE app for iOS (I also work for HERE). Also tried SFOBikePaths and like it. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:20pm habit, mostly. i don’t drive at home, when traveling or co-piloting google seems accurate, traffic aware, familiar, @nguyenist. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:21pm @philiphubs Is SFOBikePaths an app? I can’t find it. #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:21pm .@jwass2000 +1 to @techstars backed @mapkin for intuitive navigation. Do you mind sharing what you guys are up to? Driving only? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:23pm @erictheise @nguyenist I’m less willing to try Scout when I have other people in the car. If Google fails, I can’t be blamed :) #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:23pm .@erictheise We could probably do an entire #geowebchat on just outdoor/nature navigation. Never used @Chimani why do you recommend?

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:24pm @erictheise @nguyenist It’s kind of like “nobody ever got fired for buying IBM”. With myself I try Scout to help it improve. #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:25pm .@neogeografen Our phones have a range of GPS error but we can still navigate to our destination. How precise do we need to be? #geowebchat

@neogeografen Jun 02, 12:27pm @nguyenist As a only OSM geodata based map App/Garmin user – I am more interested in having lots paths than precision #geowebchat

@jwass2000 Jun 02, 12:28pm @nguyenist Making spoken instructions intuitive to keep eyes on road while driving. Using landmarks, lights, custom instructions #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:28pm .@erictheise After interviewing hundreds of people, most with iPhones still use Google Maps. I love Apple for walking directions #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:29pm haven’t looked at alternatives to @Chimani, @nguyenist; app is low key, delivers, & i met founder @kerrygallivan @sotmus pdx. #geowebchat

@mvexel Jun 02, 12:29pm btw on pedestrian nav – the global version of Scout recently added this, let me know how you like it. #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:30pm .@philiphubs offline maps option is great. Many people are concerned with battery life while navigating. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:31pm i was going to say “dutifully” downloading scout right now, @mvexel, but that implies it being a chore; looking forward to it. #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:31pm .@mappingmashups @erictheise What are the pros for Scout? Anything that sets it apart from Google Maps? #geowebchat

@mvexel Jun 02, 12:32pm @erictheise if you’re looking for the global version, follow the links here: skobbler.com/apps #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:32pm .@mappingmashups @erictheise it’s great to know that startups have a chance in the nav space against big players: Apple Google. #geowebchat

@jeresuikkila Jun 02, 12:33pm Working for @here: Wondering if you have tried it and if you as a mapping expert have any feedback to us? #geowebchat

@mvexel Jun 02, 12:33pm @nguyenist @mappingmashups @erictheise other than OSM? I trust Scout’s ETA estimate better, anecdotally. #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:33pm .@mappingmashups @erictheise market is big enough that there should be multiple options for navigating drive, bike, walk #geowebchat

@neogeografen Jun 02, 12:34pm @nguyenist LOL Apple as big player – Not in Europe and outside major cities @mappingmashups @erictheise #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:35pm .@jwass2000 @mapkin is a fantastic app that really hits a great point. Navigation should be more intuitive and human. #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:36pm talking telenav’s scout app. MT @mvexel: if you’re looking for global version, follow links at skobbler.com/apps #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:36pm @erictheise Simple-it does what it needs to do! @Chimani @kerrygallivan I’ll be at @sotmus this year hope to meet you all there! #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:36pm .@mvexel Link? #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:37pm .@erictheise @mvexel I’d like to know how @scout performs for walking navigation vs. Google vs. Apple, etc. #geowebchat

@mvexel Jun 02, 12:37pm @nguyenist get it here (android / iOS) skobbler.com/apps #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jun 02, 12:37pm @nguyenist More than just offline maps: Traffic incl re-routing, voice guidance, pedestrian and public transit incl schedules #geowebchat

@ZHANG_Ruda Jun 02, 12:37pm I wonder if any people here uses @Citymapper , which has a huge user group. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:37pm @nguyenist Specializing in driving, biking, walking makes sense, but as user it’s nice to compare all route options in 1 app #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:38pm .@mvexel @mappingmashups @erictheise when I navigate I glance at the time but mainly pay attn to distance left while in route. #geowebchat

@mvexel Jun 02, 12:38pm @nguyenist @erictheise @scout me too :) depends on data density as well of course, hence I had a lot of fun with it in Berlin #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:40pm .@ZHANG_Ruda Huge fan of @Citymapper, especially for design and these reasons: medium.com/@zmh/bye-googl… +1 @zmh #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:42pm @philiphubs Will definitely have to try it out. Curious to know where HERE is most used? City walking? Suburb driving? #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jun 02, 12:42pm @mappingmashups How do you like the HERE route options? #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:47pm Moving to Q2: What’s the future of navigation apps? #geowebchat

@philiphubs Jun 02, 12:49pm @nguyenist #HEREmaps Can be used for driving, city walking, public transit. And our maps are in most car sat navs. #geowebchat

@muthukumarceg Jun 02, 12:51pm IYO, whats the best #App for pedestrain navigation? @jeresuikkila @nguyenist #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 12:52pm future of navigation apps: how about multi-sensorial interface & shuffle play, @nguyenist? #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:52pm .@muthukumarceg @jeresuikkila Clearly @golandmark ;) landmarkdirections.com #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:53pm .@erictheise mind explaining what you mean by shuffle play? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:54pm @nguyenist @erictheise Is shuffle play for dérives, like serendipitor.net? #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:55pm Intuitive navigation has a long way to go. Crowdsourcing info is key. #geowebchat

@muthukumarceg Jun 02, 12:55pm haha @nguyenist Visual navigation is awesome but what do you think would be the biggest challenge? #geowebchat @jeresuikkila @golandmark

@jwass2000 Jun 02, 12:55pm @nguyenist New platforms – walking on watch – driving on CarPlay, etc. With autonomous cars – no need for driving nav app. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:57pm Thanks everybody for joining today’s #geowebchat. We’re nearing the end of the hour. Any last thoughts?

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:58pm @muthukumarceg @jeresuikkila @golandmark Getting beautiful, appropriately geotagged photos in every corner of the world. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 12:59pm @nguyenist @muthukumarceg @jeresuikkila For beautiful geotagged photos around the world, try @mapillary’s instagram feed! #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 12:59pm .@mappingmashups Hope to meet some of you at @sotmus this weekend! I have so many nav apps to download and test now. #geowebchat

@muthukumarceg Jun 02, 12:59pm @nguyenist Crowdsourcing?! but then are smartphones the best visual navigation devices? I don’t think so. #geowebchat @jeresuikkila

@muthukumarceg Jun 02, 1:00pm @mappingmashups thanks for the info! will check out @mapillary #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 1:00pm .@mappingmashups Last summer we drove in @lyft cabs taking @mapillary photos up and down streets of Manhattan! @muthukumarceg #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 1:01pm Today’s #geowebchat transcript will be posted at mappingmashups.net in a couple days. Our next chat will be same time on July 7!

@mappingmashups Jun 02, 1:02pm Thanks so much to subject expert @nguyenist for hosting this #geowebchat! If you want to host, or have ideas for future topics, let me know!

@nguyenist Jun 02, 1:02pm Thanks @mappingmashups for organizing another great #geowebchat!

@jeresuikkila Jun 02, 1:02pm @mappingmashups @nguyenist suggesting @philiphubs to host about #geocoding. #geowebchat

@geoawesomeness Jun 02, 1:03pm Check out #geowebchat by @mappingmashups! Its one awesome geo chat hashtag mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ #Geoawesomeness

@muthukumarceg Jun 02, 1:04pm @jeresuikkila @mappingmashups @nguyenist @philiphubs looking forward to the next #geowebchat

@oeon Jun 02, 1:18pm Long time listener, first time caller to #geowebchat. I like @MAPS_ME, “Fast & detailed offline maps of the whole world”…includes routing.

@oeon Jun 02, 1:18pm …live in a rural county w/out complete cell coverage…work w emergency responders…have rec’d this app to help them navigate #geowebchat

@erictheise Jun 02, 1:26pm hi @nroose! thought someone else’d throw #augmentedReality into the mix + it’s already pretty solidly part of the mindset. #geowebchat

@nguyenist Jun 02, 1:35pm The future of transportation cc: #geowebchat @mappingmashups

@nguyenist Jun 04, 4:50am Recommended nav apps from #geowebchat:
@here @mapillary @mapkin @Citymapper @scout @Chimani @Garmin OSM serendipitor.net SFOBikePaths

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping, Networks | Leave a comment

#geowebchat transcript, 5 May 2015: How can newbies contribute productively to humanitarian mapping?

@mappingmashups May 05, 8:43am Today on #geowebchat: how can newbies contribute meaningfully to #CrisisMapping? Join us 12pm PDT (Tue May 5) More: gis.blog.ryerson.ca/2015/05/04/not…

@erikfriesen May 05, 8:45am @mappingmashups perfect timing! Going to be helping some newbies @SMU get started w crisis mapping tonight #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 10:49am Today’s #geowebchat: Humanitarian mapping & #NepalEarthquake: Join us at 12pm PT, 19:00 UTC, Tue May 5. #Map4Nepal #EqResponseNp cc @hotosm

@RussellDeffner May 05, 11:31am Looking forward to the #geowebchat regarding mapping for #NepalEarthquake I am part of the wonderfully amazing @hotosm community.

@mappingmashups May 05, 11:53am @danielpunkass Hey Daniel, we’re about to have a twitter chat about newbies & Nepal mapping. Maybe join & share your experience? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 11:54am #gistribe: you may want to join our #geowebchat about Nepal humanitarian mapping, starting in a few minutes…

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:00pm Hi everyone! Welcome to our monthly #geowebchat. We’re talking about humanitarian mapping in Nepal: how can newbies contribute productively?

@jgVisov May 05, 12:01pm Hello! RT @mappingmashups #gistribe: you may want to join our #geowebchat about Nepal humanitarian mapping, starting in a few minutes…

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:01pm As always, if you want to follow along with #geowebchat, try a tool like tweetchat.com. To ignore us, mute the hashtag.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:03pm .@jgVisov Welcome to #geowebchat! As we get started, who has experience to share either leading or participating in #Map4Nepal mapathons?

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:04pm To get the discussion started, @ClausRinner wrote this blog post about his experiences: gis.blog.ryerson.ca/2015/05/04/not… #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:06pm Some stats about newbies in Nepal mapping osm.townsendjennings.com/nepal/ #geowebchat “2,876 of these mappers are new to OpenStreetMap”

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:06pm A lot of #maptime chapters have held @hotosm #Map4Nepal mapathons in the last week, anyone attend one of those? #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:06pm @mappingmashups Thanks for inviting me. As a newbie trying to get into it, basic mapping skills are well covered. Issues seem #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:07pm @neogeografen Good point. Many people are new to OSM in general, not just @hotosm tasks. Are HOT tasks a good intro to OSM? #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:07pm @mappingmashups Naively going to the OSMTM many of the tasks listed state they are suited for advanced mappers. Hard to find #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:08pm @mappingmashups Hi all! We had a Nepal mapathon at work. All were new to OSM except myself and leader. #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:08pm @mappingmashups appropriate starter tasks that a newb would feel comfortable doing, and know it’s being done right. #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:09pm @mappingmashups Newbies seem to want to do it right. Helps to sit with an experienced user and watch for awhile #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:10pm @danielpunkass Because @ClausRinner’s experience was similar: his group had lots of GIS experience, but less OSM experience #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:10pm @mappingmashups A little of both, I had some basic understanding of mapping tech, intros filled gaps. Hangup is getting to work. #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:10pm Starting with OSM is sometimes difficult though, but they first should get to know how stuffs work. #geowebchat twitter.com/mappingmashups…

@neogeografen May 05, 12:11pm @mappingmashups HOT TM learning on your own not good (lots of GIS lingo like TMS)- mapping parties is the way to go #geowebchat @hotosm

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:11pm @mappingmashups Something e.g. Mechanical Turk jobs tend to do well is show one clear example of a successful task execution. #geowebchat

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:11pm #geowebchat @TheMissingMaps Newbies have already making significant contribution in Nepal via HOT Tasking Manager.

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:11pm @mappingmashups In the case e.g. of “random task” failure, it may be because there are no undone tiles left. But that’s common. #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:11pm I participated in the DC Maptime event last Friday – I think there was over 100 people and we crippled the wifi :) #geowebchat

@skorasaurus May 05, 12:12pm HOT shows tangible benefit to new ppl, though Nepal is harder than others (elevation, poor aerial imagery) #geowebchat

@steviejrich May 05, 12:12pm @mappingmashups A few friendly “How tos…” on youtube would be good. Mind, I haven’t checked… #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:12pm @neogeografen @mappingmashups @hotosm I agree mapping parties are best. It helps to have a screen everyone can see for a demo #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:14pm @mappingmashups Currently the OSMTM tasks page is geared towards experienced mappers. Would be better to gear towards newbs. #geowebchat

@skorasaurus May 05, 12:14pm @steviejrich @mappingmashups gifs would be awesome too #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:14pm @mappingmashups With the assumption that experienced mappers already know how to navigate the site and get to useful jobs #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:15pm regarding mapping parties is the same & same ppl again & again who is host/educators – ppl running tired #geowebchat new fresh ppl needed

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:16pm @skorasaurus @steviejrich The @MapGive videos are nice for super-beginners, but they don’t get into @hotosm specifics, just #osm #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:17pm If you have not visited yet, I suggest working through some of the training modules at learnosm.org #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:17pm @mappingmashups Also one of the first things I tried was to “Sort By” experience. Provide a filter for newb-friendly tasks? #geowebchat

@mikedotonline May 05, 12:17pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat If those new GIS want pointers on how to use open source GIS, MappingAcrossBorders.com has plenty of tutorials

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:18pm @mappingmashups Tutorials that talk about how to do one thing and only one thing at a time. #geowebchat

@mikedotonline May 05, 12:19pm @mappingmashups also, mappingacrossborders would be happy to host some more tutorials on how to use @hotosm too, if it helps #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:20pm @bondaharper Yes, that’s good advice. Even doing “pair mapping” with two newbies can help you learn quicker than mapping solo. #geowebchat

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:20pm #geowebchat Amazing number newbies joined mapping community to help make mapping Nepal possible. Follow up in progress to guide them

@bondaharper May 05, 12:20pm @Enock4seth @mappingmashups Single topic tutorials are great idea. Then you can focus on roads 1st, buildings 2nd, etc #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:21pm @mappingmashups Some of the tasks don’t even say “Not for beginners” until after you click through. #geowebchat

@skorasaurus May 05, 12:21pm @RussellDeffner big reason why they haven’t been done yet #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:21pm (p1/2) Two excellent ways to connect, ask questions, to @hotosm live – for text-chat qub.me/aqODc0 … #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:22pm (p2/2) For text and voice: qub.me/Gg7jV_ #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:24pm How about new users being provided access to watch experienced mappers work live on specific TM projects? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:25pm @mataharimhairi That’s a great idea. Like a live screenshare you can drop into during an activation? #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:26pm @RussellDeffner depending on users Internet connectivity. I think text/image tuts works best. @mappingmashups @MapGive @hotosm #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:27pm @bondaharper Perfect! @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:27pm 1/ @RussellDeffner @mappingmashups @skorasaurus @MapGive videos intended to on-board new users, teach @hotosm tasking manager #geowebchat

@JamesLMilner May 05, 12:28pm hello #geowebchat !

@joannalane May 05, 12:28pm #geowebchat about humanitarian mapping in Nepal starting now: how can newbies contribute productively? Follow and contribute.

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:28pm 2/ @RussellDeffner @mappingmashups @skorasaurus @steviejrich @MapGive videos are fully captioned, designed for translation. #geowebchat

@OLjohnel May 05, 12:28pm OSM learning curve over past week has been challenging but not insurmountable. If I did chat, I probably would be further along. #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:28pm FYI #geowebchat more stats twitter.com/pascal_n/statu…

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:29pm @neogeografen To avoid mapping party organizer burnout, maybe follow #maptime model of training trainers and teaching teachers? #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:29pm @mappingmashups Exactly! Live viewing during an activation to help them with identifying features in the satellite imagery #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:30pm 3/ @RussellDeffner @mappingmashups @skorasaurus @hotosm Task specifics intended to be covered in individual tracing guides #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:30pm @RussellDeffner We definitely want to incorporate some kind of chat channel for mappers in the TM projects #geowebchat

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:30pm #geowebchat Tasking Manager has many other tasks that newbies can do, not just Nepal. Just scroll down. See missingmaps.org

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:30pm @mataharimhairi Or even screenshots of what experienced mappers are seeing. Make it easier for them to share quick snapshots? #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:31pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake This is quite an intensive response and ++ new users. I estimate 8 million objects edited in 10 days.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:32pm @RalphAytoun1 Good point. In @bethschechter’s #maptime announcement (maptime.io/blog/2015/04/2…) she encourages other HOT tasks too. #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:32pm @mappingmashups It’s nice that they give the links to the tutorials but don’t know if they taught me what this terminology means #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:32pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake Mapathons are a good entrance. We need organizers to support / validate new participants tracing.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:33pm @RalphAytoun1 Nepal still needs help, but if a HOT volunteer can more easily learn how to map some other tasks, that’s great too #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:33pm @mappingmashups Yes, the ability to capture snapshots that they can share via the instructions page on the TM project tab #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:33pm @mappingmashups Sorry, the information about this terminology is within the detailed instructions for the task. Read as pre-req. #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:33pm @mataharimhairi I think also having ‘mini-modules’ that could be easily accessed from the TM – somehow link to @learnosm? #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:35pm @RalphAytoun1 One thing is most newbies knowing OSM via tasks.hotosm.org really want to help with urgent tasks. #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:35pm @danielpunkass @mappingmashups #geowebchat Has to be more than written instructions. Visual guides needed 4 each task hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/

@OLjohnel May 05, 12:36pm A video of a mapathon and/or summary of beginners questions re OSM & Nepal with answers could be useful. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:37pm @danielpunkass Yeah, good descriptions are tough… especially because many mappers are not native English speakers #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:37pm @RussellDeffner Mini-modules linking from the TM project page would also be beneficial. Just have to ensure not to overload. #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:37pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake various communication channels possible. Experienced #openstreetmap contributors to take initiatives > support

@pierzen May 05, 12:39pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake Dynamic Tutorials – Integrate instructions into ID and JOSM editors for example.

@OLjohnel May 05, 12:40pm I wonder if directing experienced GIS /inexperienced OSM folks towards QGIS/OSM could help them with transitional issues? #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:40pm #geowebchat Fundamental problems w/ @hotosm activations, need dedicated staff to build tracing guides, rate sub-task difficulty, verify data

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:40pm @mappingmashups I can’t see from the OSMTM how difficult the satellite imagery will be to see. So I lock/unlock. Frustrating. #geowebchat

@neogeografen May 05, 12:41pm OSM Utopia world within every 10 km > world there is a person who can give a face to face introduction/learning for newbies #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:41pm @pierzen Experienced guide beginners. And we provide the tools like chat channels, live video and dynamic tutorials to do so #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:42pm 2/ #geowebchat current @hotosm system has no mechanism for directing users to appropriate tasks or evaluating quality, this is a huge flaw

@FoFB7 May 05, 12:43pm @pierzen hello #geowebchat i’am at #Togo

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:43pm #geowebchat Newbies must understand that logging on does not make experts, that takes time, what they have done is brilliant so far.

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:44pm @RussellDeffner Ha ha :) Definitely the mapper! And too much information can be confusing for beginners knowing where to start #geowebchat

@BlakeGirardot May 05, 12:44pm So who wants to try some live Nepal mapping training right now via google hangout? New mappers welcome plus.google.com/events/c75h3vt… #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:44pm @danielpunkass @Enock4seth @mappingmashups Ah, so maybe a way to either preview the imagery or have ‘imagery difficulty’ rating #geowebchat

@spatialbits May 05, 12:45pm I think its really important that newbees don’t validate at the beginning. This leads to huge quality issues. #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:45pm @disruptivegeo #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake Every @hotosm Repsonse is different. This time, weather, landslides, remote villages.

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:45pm @RussellDeffner @Enock4seth @mappingmashups Yes, quickly previewing would help a lot in predicting suitability of a task. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:45pm @RussellDeffner @danielpunkass @Enock4seth Would be useful, but hard, because imagery might be updated after creation of task #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:46pm @mappingmashups @RussellDeffner @Enock4seth Ah, because the mechanics of overlaying the imagery is all done on-demand? #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:47pm @mappingmashups @RussellDeffner @Enock4seth Even if I could generate imagery and peek without lock/unlock I’d feel better. #geowebchat

@FoFB7 May 05, 12:47pm @Enock4seth @RalphAytoun1 I think it is important that newbies take time to read the tasks instructuions #geowebchat @pierzen

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:47pm @BlakeGirardot I’ll join the google hangout training to see how it is! I might be half there and half in twittersphere though #geowebchat

@Enock4seth May 05, 12:48pm @pierzen Am sure ID and Potlatch 2 has. Since JOSM is for experience users is there need for any integrated instructions? #geowebchat

@pierzen May 05, 12:48pm #geowebchat #NepalEarthquake @BlakeGirardot Nice this hangout session, I am connected.

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:49pm @danielpunkass Well, for some tasks you are given a specific overlay to use, other times it’s auto-updated like Mapbox, Bing. #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:49pm 1/ Read Benkler (benkler.org/CoasesPenguin….) for explanation of necessary criteria of peer production systems #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:50pm @spatialbits Yes, making validation only possible for approved users might not be too hard to implement. #geowebchat

@danielpunkass May 05, 12:50pm @mappingmashups I think if difficulty level could be somewhat formalized and tagged on tasks, it would be very helpful. #geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:51pm @spatialbits I agree that validation should have some restrictions. Not sure if OSM experience level is best indicator #geowebchat

@spatialbits May 05, 12:52pm @mappingmashups I wonder how to define those criteria though. Even some users with a lot of OSM experience validate shi* #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:54pm @spatialbits It is something that @hotosm can manage? Maybe they can “deputize” trusted people as validators? #geowebchat

@RussellDeffner May 05, 12:55pm @mappingmashups @Enock4seth @danielpunkass Many moving parts reg imagery; but think it doable for coordinators to rate poor-good #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:55pm 2/ Inability to direct users to tasks of appropriate difficulty & no quality control risk decreasing motivation & use #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:55pm @spatialbits I agree it’s not correlated w/ OSM experience, but rather @hotosm experience & familiarity with the tasks’s needs. #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 12:57pm 3/ need to develop new systems to crowdsource data validation, this leads to user ranking & assigning appropriate tasks #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 12:57pm @BlakeGirardot @pierzen This google hangout training is great. Can it be recorded? Then it can be linked through the TM project?#geowebchat

@bondaharper May 05, 12:58pm @spatialbits peer-review system would be good set up so as not to alienate willing helpers, but direct to best task for skill #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 12:58pm Thanks everybody for joining this lively #geowebchat. We’re about at the end of our hour. Any last thoughts?

@RalphAytoun1 May 05, 12:59pm #geowebchat All done by volunteers so be understanding. They are processing new tasks and imagery all the time.

@bondaharper May 05, 12:59pm @mappingmashups Lots of beginners is a great problem to have! I was touched how many of my co-workers gave up lunch to learn #geowebchat

@mataharimhairi May 05, 1:00pm @mappingmashups Is this #geowebchat a weekly event? It was very informative and I would like to join again!

@mappingmashups May 05, 1:00pm I’ll post the #geowebchat transcript here in a couple days: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ Our next chat is in 1 month.

@RussellDeffner May 05, 1:00pm @mappingmashups Thanks for putting this together, let’s do it again soon – great ideas that we’ll capture @hotosm #geowebchat

@mappingmashups May 05, 1:01pm The next #geowebchat will be guest-hosted by @nguyenist! We’ll be talking about navigation apps. Tuesday June 2, same time: 12pm PDT 3pm EDT

@CiaranStaunton May 05, 1:02pm #geowebchat maybe make another webchat #wheniwasanewbie and get over the experience caste system??

@mataharimhairi May 05, 1:05pm @hotosm Great #geowebchat today. Check out the transcript if you missed it. There are a lot of brilliant ideas! twitter.com/mappingmashups…

@mappingmashups May 05, 1:08pm @mataharimhairi Thanks to all the @hotosm participants who joined the #geowebchat today!

@pierzen May 05, 1:11pm #geowebchat Actually, 84 simultaneous contributors around the world mapping for #NepalEarthquake @hotosm Response tasks.hotosm.org

@BlakeGirardot May 05, 1:29pm Next time I live map I have to get the audio and text working, sorry about that :( #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo May 05, 3:48pm @Stellar0645 I believe crowd mapping is an incredible force for good, reason for @MapGive, but we must fix user & quality issues #geowebchat

@jgVisov May 06, 1:18am #geowebchat This large job is open to all: tasks.hotosm.org/project/1018 Pre-quake building footprints are useful for damage analysis #gistribe 1/2

@jgVisov May 06, 1:19am #geowebchat View @BlakeGirardot recorded video to see him live @hotosm mapping twitter.com/BlakeGirardot/… #gistribe @pierzen 2/2

@neogeomat May 06, 5:53am #geowebchat many drones were used for news in #NepalQuake . uav image can be better as it’s difficult to identify collapsed structures.

@pedrito1414 May 06, 5:54am #geowebchat Late to party, but a couple of points… 1. Mapathons need to be regular in order to build skills, create new gen. of validators

@pedrito1414 May 06, 5:55am #geowebchat 2. Skilled mappers should not be tracing buildings! They should prep tasks, create guides & then newbies do the simple stuff.

@pedrito1414 May 06, 5:57am #geowebchat The way forward is through intelligent tasking. #MissingMaps is working on this for large AOIs. Documentation soon.

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping, Networks | 1 Response

#geowebchat transcript, 7 April 2015: Burger Cartography

@mappingmashups Apr 02, 5:19pm Next #geowebchat, we continue the “Burger Cartography” debate started by @andrewxhill: andrewxhill.com/blog/2015/03/2… Join us Tue Apr 7 12pm PDT!

@mappingmashups Apr 04, 9:15pm RT @ClausRinner: My 2 cents re debate btwn @andrewxhill @kennethfield @spatialanalysis @kyjts, gis.blog.ryerson.ca/2015/04/04/abo… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 05, 2:00pm .@mappingmashups @andrewxhill How much of burger cartography is ab ‘more hack less yak’? Looking fwd to Tues 3pmEDT #geowebchat #neogeoweb

@re_sieber Apr 05, 2:49pm How many tropical forests have been destroyed to supply us w burger cartography? RT:@geozeal maps now a throw-away commodity #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 06, 10:02am in time for burger cartography #geowebchat tmr, the Kobe Beef cartography of Beautiful Maps tumblr mapsdesign.tumblr.com

@re_sieber Apr 06, 6:14pm A conversation w @mapsbynik the cartographer whose maps go viral theatlantic.com/technology/arc… good prep for tmr’s #geowebchat via @rachelgbloom1

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:00pm Hi! Welcome to our monthly #geowebchat! Today we’re talking about @andrewxhill’s “In Defense of Burger Cartography” andrewxhill.com/blog/2015/03/2…

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:01pm If you want to join #geowebchat, make sure you include the hashtag in all your tweets. To ignore us, mute the hashtag in your twitter client

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:02pm You might want to try a tool like tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat to follow along with #geowebchat.

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:02pm I’m not unsympathetic to andrewxhill.com/blog/2015/03/2… but I do bristle @ “dogma of cartog”. Do we also say “dogma of physics”? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:03pm Some more interesting thoughts about “Quick-Service Mapping” by @ClausRinner for #geowebchat: gis.blog.ryerson.ca/2015/04/04/abo…

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:04pm @re_sieber Well, sometimes we might! Latour anyone? But surely cartography doesn’t make claims to hard science like “physics” #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:05pm I want to support neogeographers-all of us!-making maps but maps can lie, eg maps not normalized by pop density #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:05pm RT @andrewxhill: Physics uses the scientific method to arrive at understanding. Cartog dips into more flavors of rule creation #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:07pm .@andrewxhill @mappingmashups I chose physics as edge case. But we cud also say ‘dogma of biology’, ‘dogma of sociology’ #geowebchat

@insistondoubt Apr 07, 12:07pm @re_sieber Feminist and other critics of science (Karen Barad, Donna Haraway, Sandra Harding, Bruno Latour) will do this, yes. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:08pm .@mappingmashups Well cartography (geoviz) is trying in parts to become more scientific #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:08pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups I still think it’s there, biology has many admitted dogmas. it’s known and worked with #geowebchat

@geothinkca Apr 07, 12:08pm You also wouldn’t see the casual journalist dipping into ‘physics’ to illustrate a story idea #geowebchat twitter.com/re_sieber/stat…

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:09pm And here’s the original post that started today’s #geowebchat conversation: citylab.com/housing/2015/0…

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:09pm #geowebchat Whats with the hexbin in burger maps? Aside from it geometric-props like tessellation. Why not existing soc/admin bounds?

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:09pm .@insistondoubt There’s a difference btwn critique & DIY. Burger Cartography offers more of latter #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:11pm .@terra_tenney Hexabins are used bc neogeog can’t find jurisdictional boundary files. So aggreg by arbitrary polygon #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:12pm Sheltonet.al. Argument is don’t be lazy w/twitmapps but why resort to arbitrary space when existing ones have meaning of sorts? #geowebchat

@rmcooper4 Apr 07, 12:14pm IMHO seems like burger cartography is not really a problem, rather burger maps claiming to say more than they actually do #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:14pm #geowebchat ok sorry- back to hegemony.

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:14pm @terra_tenney that have a lot of good reasons for their binned approach, give floatingship archives a skim for their ideas #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:16pm @andrewxhill @mappingmashups Can we prevent an anti-dogma, which can be as powerful as a dogma? Goal is to make good maps #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:17pm @andrewxhill #geowebchat question stands to flootingsheep – I understand the geom-advan but when does hex of space connect to hex of place?

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:17pm @terra_tenney #geowebchat note they also use hexbins…

@vtcraghead Apr 07, 12:18pm @re_sieber @andrewxhill @mappingmashups My personal fave is the anti-anti-dogma. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:18pm cc @floating_sheep RT @terra_tenney: #geowebchat I understand the geom-advan but when does hex of space connect to hex of place?

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:21pm @andrewxhill @mappingmashups Good cartography also means following some rules. Do you accept that? Or is it ‘map whatever’ #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Apr 07, 12:22pm @re_sieber @andrewxhill @mappingmashups Straw man alert. #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:23pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups do’h, keep forgetting the #geowebchat. Heck yeah, we shouldn’t abandon all knowledge

@floating_sheep Apr 07, 12:23pm Reasons to use hexbins, pt. 1/2: the modifiable areal unit problem. #geowebchat

@floating_sheep Apr 07, 12:23pm Reasons to use hexbins, pt. 2/2: they are a no more arbitrary way of dividing up spatial units than administrative boundaries. #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Apr 07, 12:23pm #geowebchat: Does the carto dogma/anti-dogma discussion apply to mapping any big data, not just tweets?

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:24pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups #geowebchat, but at the same time, you must understand that your rule may not define what you are seeing

@rmcooper4 Apr 07, 12:24pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups I read @andrewxhill as encouraging playfulness, not an all-out dismissal of cartographic conventions #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:25pm @rmcooper4 @re_sieber @mappingmashups exactly, despite some of the responses. oh well! #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:25pm @floating_sheep #geowebchat – Something I’ve questioned too – but MAUP isnt necessarily solved by hexbins.

@atepoorthuis Apr 07, 12:25pm @terra_tenney Among others, existing geometries are arbitrary too. Hexbins are at least explicit about this. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:25pm .@andrewxhill @mappingmashups If you accept some rules then there’s a blurry line btwn that & dogma. That’s all I’m saying #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:26pm @floating_sheep Admin bounds have lots of ‘non-arbitrary’ meaning. I.e., they are administrative boundaries. #geowebchat

@rastrau Apr 07, 12:26pm Sometimes difficult decision: arbitrary units to avoid MAUP vs. depicting admin units (i.e. level at which decisions are made) #geowebchat

@DiptoSrkr Apr 07, 12:27pm isn’t #neogeoweb about opening doors of cartography for creative exploration? Keep whats good & discard the rest. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:28pm .@rmcooper4 @mappingmashups @andrewxhill I understandably bristle @ use of term dogma in cartography #geowebchat #WeDontNeedNoStinkingBadges

@monosim Apr 07, 12:29pm @floatingsheep it’s great for relieving the reader of having to deal with normalizing areas like census tracks. #geowebchat

@rmcooper4 Apr 07, 12:29pm .@andrewxhill I think many ‘dogmatic’ carto folks would contend they’ve always practiced ‘sin’ of burger cart inconspicuously #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Apr 07, 12:30pm #geowebchat, @DiptoSrkr – My main concern w/ @andrewxhill post: You dont have to “discard the rest”. Just add, adjust, modify existing rules

@kennethfield Apr 07, 12:30pm Creative expression, playfulness etc has always been part of cart. It’s vital but it’s not new #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:31pm @rmcooper4 I am a huge practicioner of burger cartography. often looking for edge cases that are unexpected #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:31pm FYI to the dogma sidebar RT @Esri: Maps are critical tools for inspiring action…protecting communities wh.gov/iZdG8 #geowebchat

@alexbhill Apr 07, 12:31pm @mappingmashups @floatingsheep @terra_tenney Hex place = Central Place Theory #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:33pm @alexbhill @mappingmashups @floatingsheep #geowebchat Christaller loved some hexbin ~ unfortunately that geom pattern failed to play 4real

@rmcooper4 Apr 07, 12:33pm .@andrewxhill But I think you are wanting people to be more open with their burger cartography, no?#geowebchat

@ebrelsford Apr 07, 12:34pm to what degree is the burger cartography problem one of the viewer’s map literacy as opposed to “mapping wrong”? #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:34pm Long live MAUP and hexbins are hip #geowebchat #HatersGonnaHate

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:34pm .@kennethfield my concern is forgetting that maps can hurt.That’s what some of the rules are for, to ameliorate some of the hurt #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:37pm .@ebrelsford Exactly. Some of it’s map literacy. But some is map construction, lk normalizing for pop #geowebchat

@kennethfield Apr 07, 12:37pm .@re_sieber I know I appear intransigent on what ppl refer to as rules. They’re guides, largely based on research & practice #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:38pm @kennethfield @re_sieber totally. this. 100% #geowebchat

@kennethfield Apr 07, 12:39pm .@re_sieber breaking rules is fine if u know what ur doing (or get lucky) & map message is clear & not accompanied by hyperbole #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:40pm @kennethfield @re_sieber you just listed rules #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:40pm @andrewxhill @kennethfield I’m all for calling rules guides, if we get more ppl intd in lessons learned from long hist of cartog #geowebchat

@geodosu Apr 07, 12:40pm “[Maps] of course, are never true… [fortunately] it is only necessary that they be useful.” with apologies to George Box #geowebchat

@kennethfield Apr 07, 12:41pm Problem we all face is our map readers are likely I’ll equipped to know a reasonable map from the general fayre. Hence ‘rules’ #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:42pm RT @atepoorthuis: @terra_tenney Christaller never mistook ideal type theory with reality. Come discuss :) meridian.aag.org/callforpapers/… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:44pm .@geodosu Nietschmann: “more indigenous territory has been claimed by maps than by guns” Maps can b playful;they’e also powerful #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:45pm @re_sieber @geodosu #rules viz.dwrl.utexas.edu/content/octopu…#geowebchat

@mapperz Apr 07, 12:45pm #geowebchat of course after burgers you need a good greatbritishpublictoiletmap.rca.ac.uk/loos/54c2347d2… #osm

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:46pm Sure, @terra_tenney, you can go to #AAG2015, as long as it doesnt cost me $ @atepoorthuis @alexbhill @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 12:46pm @kennethfield hmm… this depends on your intent making the map. I think the twitter maps generate the response intended. #geowebchat

@terra_tenney Apr 07, 12:48pm RT @re_sieber: Sure, you can go to #AAG2015, as long as it doesnt cost me $ @atepoorthuis @alexbhill @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@jscarto Apr 07, 12:48pm (1/2) First it was projections. Now color schemes / perceptual science. It’s lovely that a new audience is interested in cart #geowebchat

@kennethfield Apr 07, 12:49pm .@ClausRinner @re_sieber it doesn’t work. San Bernardino proves it. Largest county visually dominates & skews interpretation #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:50pm .@andrewxhill ‘twitter maps generate response intended’. Yes,& all wrong conclusions ab areas lk Africa.A prob w maps wo rules #geowebchat

@kennethfield Apr 07, 12:51pm .@jscarto I agree… which is why I call for evolution, not revolution or divisions based on seduction of tech #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:51pm .@jscarto YES: ‘success of cart is founded on its rigor, which builds upon rather than discards this science + convention’ #geowebchat

@jscarto Apr 07, 12:49pm (2/2) …but the success of cart is founded on its rigor, which builds upon rather than discards this science + convention #geowebchat

@mbccohen Apr 07, 12:53pm @jscarto How often will the #geowebchat be?

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 12:54pm @mbccohen @jscarto #geowebchat is monthly, on the 1st Tuesday of the month.

@monosim Apr 07, 12:55pm Intent is important….which is why methodology and sources are important to include…wouldn’t want to mislead the reader #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:55pm @mbccohen @jscarto Currently #geowebchat is once per month

@kennethfield Apr 07, 12:56pm It’s not twitter maps at fault per se. It’s the data. The map masks fundamental problems that cart doesn’t accommodate #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:59pm .@kennethfield Sure, prob w Twitter is data (e.g., skewing) but you can’t get away from probs in analysis & viz #geowebchat

@re_sieber Apr 07, 12:59pm Last thoughts ab burger cartography? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 1:00pm Well, we’ve reached the end of our hour-long #geowebchat. Feel free to keep chatting. Transcript will be posted here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

@kennethfield Apr 07, 1:00pm Too many burger maps are data dumps. Often beautiful but low on cart to encode meaning. Frontier for research is to find ways #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 1:00pm @rmcooper4 totally. but also we should look at a lot of this playful map making and figure out if there are things we can learn #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Apr 07, 1:01pm Next #geowebchat will be in one month, on May 5th, same time: 12pm PDT 3pm EDT, 20:00 BST. I’m open to topic suggestions!

@mapperz Apr 07, 1:01pm ” at the data conversion process >visual QA must be performed” esri.com/news/arcuser/7… #geowebchat

@andrewxhill Apr 07, 1:04pm Thanks #geowebchat! For more on burger cartography, see here andrew.cartodb.com haha :)

@geozeal Apr 07, 1:06pm Commodity maps like “burger maps” most often equivalent to chartjunk, just more image noise in our visual environments. #geowebchat

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping, Networks | 1 Response

#geowebchat transcript, 3 March 2015: Geoweb and liability, with #geothink

See also Muki Haklay’s summary following the chat.

Chat transcript:

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 12:01pm Looking for #geowebchat which usually happens at this time? Instead, join #geothink for “geoweb liability” in 2 hrs: mappingmashups.net/2015/02/27/nex…

@geothinkca Mar 01, 6:05am #geothink open data bill in #Maryland would make GIS data easily available to state residents technical.ly/baltimore/2015… via @TechnicallyBMR

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 7:49am Reminder:- Tune in for tonights chat with #geowebchat and #geothink. We are looking at some of the ways that tort laws react to geoweb info

@rob_giggey Mar 03, 11:04am #geothink has put together an impressive amount of research based content dedicated to #opendata & #geoweb; for practioners and enthusiasts.

@geothinkca Mar 03, 1:58pm Thanks @rob_giggey ! Will you be joining us for our twitterchat on tort liability and the goeweb in a few minutes? #geothink

@geothinkca Mar 03, 2:01pm Hello all, welcome to our #geothink chat hosted by @TenilleEBrown, use #geothink (not #geowebchat)

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:01pm Welcome to tonights @geothinkca chat- on geoweb and tort liability #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:02pm Looking forward to #geothink chat on liability & the geoweb (also #opendata). I assume most research is from GPS units & faulty directions.

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:03pm Tort liability & geoweb: does that mean user must enter explicit contract w company, government? #geothink

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 2:03pm Hello everyone tuning in for #geowebchat: Today please use hashtag #geothink for our discussion about Geoweb & Liability w/ @TenilleEBrown

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 2:04pm Some links and reading materials for the #geothink chat: mappingmashups.net/2015/02/27/nex…

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:05pm Many ex of bad directions from in car navig, eg, businessinsider.com/gps-gives-wron… #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:05pm @re_sieber No it does not. A contract can not reach all possible plaintiffs- which is the whole point of tortslaw #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:07pm .@TenilleEBrown I assume you must demonstrate damages from using geoweb, GPS, locational tech #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:07pm First off we can look at the definition of “torts”- a tort refers to a wrongful act which results in injury to another person, etc #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:09pm Useful link from @TenilleEBrown: Potential Liability for Crowdsourced Disaster Response Groups, wilsoncommonslab.org/2011/09/01/cit… #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:11pm @re_sieber Yes. We need actual harm. Not hypothetical. #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:14pm Can indiv claim actual harm? “I used geoweb to report pothole. You didn’t fix in timely manner. I wrecked my car going over hole.” #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:14pm Is there a liability from IPR? – see the report wilsoncenter.org/publication/ty… @TeresaScassa #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:14pm I am interested in knowing how people think about geoweb and liability? What does that mean for you in your work? #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:17pm #opendata & liability: fact or fiction, an EU perspective slideshare.net/epsiplatform/e… #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:17pm @TenilleEBrown I think philosophically, technical culture (& esp software culture) is about ensuring no responsibility – e.g. EULA #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:17pm @mhaklay @TeresaScassa That report is super interesting. It highlights liability issues, not necessarily about IPR, #geothink 1/2

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:17pm @mhaklay @TeresaScassa but about professional responsibilities 2/2 #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:18pm @mhaklay What is EULA? #geothink

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 2:06pm If you want a handy way to follow along with the #geothink chat, try: tweetchat.com/room/geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:19pm @TenilleEBrown End User Lic Agreement, the think you ‘sign’ when using software. #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:19pm Often liability is matter of how good your lawyers r & deep the pockets r of the entity (eg gov) being sued & sympathies of judge #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:19pm @mhaklay I agree with that. But I think that there is a disconnect with a legal culture which wants to protect the individual #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:22pm .@TenilleEBrown an example of the lack of responsibility is SatNav/GPS interfaces & accidents e.g. theverge.com/2014/1/28/5350… #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:22pm FAQs from Can gov on #opendata &liability open.canada.ca/en/frequently-… “Gov of Canada not liable for any damage caused by use of data” #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:24pm @mhaklay This is a great article. It speaks to a lot of the issues about assigning responsibility towards others #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:24pm @TenilleEBrown I’m with you on the principle, but maybe tech managed to build enough cases to legally get away with murder? #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:24pm For legal systems that use precedents: geoweb liability originates w accuracy of navigational charts #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:26pm @mhaklay Ouch! “I’m with you on the principle, but maybe tech managed to build enough cases to legally get away with murder? #geothink”

@joncorbett Mar 03, 2:26pm @re_sieber this implies negligence… there are also examples of naivity that lead to injury (physical and non-physical) #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:27pm .@re_sieber that’s the core q. – is it software (hence no responsibility) or authoritative information (hence plenty)? #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:28pm .@geolytica Wonder how transferrable this “We’re not liable” is to private initiatives like yours? #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:28pm So here’s a q: who is responsible, when a driverless car kill someone because of bad geodata that was crowdsourced?!? #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:29pm .@mhaklay There must be liability for software. What ab incorrect tax software? #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:30pm @re_sieber @joncorbett In other subject-matter contexts, the court frequently do not uphold clauses such as these, #geothink

@joncorbett Mar 03, 2:30pm @re_sieber @mhaklay are we talking software, data, driving skills?! #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:30pm @mhaklay The beauty of liability is that you can go after multiple parties: maker of driverless car, LIDAR manuf, OSM, city gov #geothink

@geothinkca Mar 03, 2:31pm .@re_sieber @mhaklay And if it’s crowdsourced, Could contributors be held liable for their mistakes? #geothink

@notgregorypeck Mar 03, 2:31pm @re_sieber #geothink but how feasible is it to assign liability. you have to separate software from platform from data?

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 2:31pm RT @tonyquartararo: @mhaklay the crowd, of course. Audit logs of who made last edits…could get interesting. Great question. #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:32pm @re_sieber @joncorbett Maybe because the clause is unconscionable, or maybe the parties never REALLY came to an agreement #geothink

@joncorbett Mar 03, 2:32pm @re_sieber @mhaklay but not the driver?! #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:32pm 1962 article on Cartographic Record and Historical Accuracy, inc liability of hydrographic surveyors jstor.org/discover/10.23… #geothink

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 2:32pm RT @geolytica: I’ve alwa ys stated that “I’m not liable” in regards to all data I collect & freely distribute. #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:33pm @joncorbett @re_sieber it’s driverLESS You’ve got no driver! #geothink

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 2:33pm Everybody reading the #geothink twitter chat: remember to include the hashtag in your tweets if you reply! That way everyone can follow.

@joncorbett Mar 03, 2:33pm @mhaklay @re_sieber oops, was stuck on the Uber example! #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:35pm @joncorbett @re_sieber in the Uber case that are v interesting question on the interface design that demands interaction #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:36pm @joncorbett @re_sieber @mhaklay well if my poor driving (or walking) skill is due to poor data…. #geothink abajournal.com/news/article/w…

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:38pm @geothinkca @re_sieber @mhaklay I think this is the million dollar question #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:38pm and here a clickbait on GPS and accidents if you want to ponder ranker.com/list/9-car-acc… & my all time fav dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1… #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:38pm .@geolytica Still depends on how good one’s lawyers are. A claus/terms of service doesn’t autom obviate neglect, malfeasance #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:39pm RT @datakid23: @cobismith @mhaklay I would suggest ‘no human’. A tragedy, most certainly, but an accident. #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:40pm RT @tonyquartararo: and if you don’t live near the location mapped, is that’s good thing vs local context & knowledge? #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:40pm .@TenilleEBrown @geothinkca @mhaklay I think you could pierce the veil of the crowd to hold members of #OSM liable for their edits #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:41pm @notgregorypeck @re_sieber Feasibility is a really important question. The court would assign liability via a “but-for” test. #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:42pm .@mhaklay @tonyquartararo If ur local citizen sensor then ur probably deemed more liable than a tourist who happend to geocode #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:42pm .@re_sieber @TenilleEBrown @geothinkca but the car uses Google Map Maker or Here, or TomTom where you don’t know who edited? #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:43pm @geothinkca Security considerations; reliance on information; sensitivity of information shared; presumption of industry practice #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:44pm .@mhaklay Google (re: MapMaker), TomTom probably liable since they claim IP of crowdsourced data. Other sites (eg OSM) do not #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:46pm @re_sieber @geothinkca @mhaklay Could, AND increasingly have to- with #OSM so prevalent #geothink #tortlaw #liability

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:46pm @geothinkca Q: How could the #geoweb harm you other than through navigation? #geothink A: Classic example: your ship runs aground.

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:48pm .@re_sieber are we back in sq 1 (& seems like top magic of tech law IMHO): fiercely fight for IP with no responsibility on action? #geothink

@geothinkca Mar 03, 2:48pm .@TenilleEBrown Could you give an example? #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:49pm RT @pjrplan: @re_sieber@tonyquartararo how does the person uploading know which they r? how is uploader intent measured/captured? #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 2:51pm RT @tonyquartararo: @pjrplan @re_sieber @mhaklay good question. Don’t have answers yet. #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:51pm “Can I sue app co if I get into crash bc of bad directions” theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/cu… A:Ur responsible if you break law while driving #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:52pm @geothinkca sharing of sensitive info in an emergency context brings with it responsibilities, for eg. protecting personal info #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:53pm @mhaklay IP for all; responsibility for none! (not) #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:53pm @geothinkca The report by Scassa, Chandler & Judge talk about the tort of privacy in the Canadian context- papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf… #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 2:55pm .@TenilleEBrown @geothinkca Big case of Ushahidi using shortcode used by victims of Haiti earthquake & not expunging personal info #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:57pm @re_sieber @geothinkca Yes! The key thing from the legal perspective is that the Ushahidi met their knowledge of the industry 1/2 #geothink

@geothinkca Mar 03, 2:57pm #geothink Just a couple minutes left in today’s chat, tweet in your closing arguments!

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 2:58pm @re_sieber @geothinkca to protect those they are working with and for and providing information to. Tort law requires this. 2/2 #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:00pm Assume this inc emergent orgs lk HOTOSM? RT @TenilleEBrown key thing from legal perspective is that org met knowledge of industry #geothink

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 3:01pm This has been so interesting. Thanks for sharing great information – @re_sieber @geothinkca @mhaklay @joncorbett @mappingmashups #geothink

@geothinkca Mar 03, 3:01pm Thanks for joining us today! Shoutout to @TenilleEBrown for hosting our #geothink chat!! Thanks for collaborating w/ us, @mappingmashups.

@TenilleEBrown Mar 03, 3:02pm @geothinkca The jury is out on whether liability is a good thing for the geoweb. Further discussions are needed! #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:02pm Closing thoughts:Dont want fear of liability to stifle geoweb tech.But companies,orgs must have some responsibility 4software,data #geothink

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 3:02pm Thanks @geothinkca, @notgregorypeck, & @TenilleEBrown for hosting this #geothink/#geowebchat! I’ll post transcript at mappingmashups.net

@mappingmashups Mar 03, 3:03pm Next #geowebchat will be April 7th at 12pm PT 3pm ET. (We’re going monthly instead of biweekly). Topic suggestions welcome! #geothink

@joncorbett Mar 03, 3:03pm @re_sieber we didn’t even talk about liability of indigenous digital knowledge and unexpected/unintentional uses and implications #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 03, 3:04pm @TenilleEBrown @re_sieber @geothinkca @joncorbett @mappingmashups thank you for hosting! #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:05pm .@joncorbett Indigenous digital knowledge & unexpected/unintentional uses and implications–great future topic for #geothink #geowebchat

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:08pm @mhaklay @TenilleEBrown @geothinkca @joncorbett @mappingmashups Great sharing twitterverse w you on subj of liability & the geoweb #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:17pm .@geolytica I remember convo w fed employee in 1999 ab #opendata: “We can’t open it bc then we’ll be liable for all the errors!” #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:19pm @TKRspatial @TenilleEBrown @geothinkca @mhaklay Do users (eg of TomTom) even know data is not authoritative but crowdsourced? #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:22pm .@mhaklay @TKRspatial @TenilleEBrown @geothinkca OSM isnt Ford Pinto but does it hv ethical,legal responsibility 4design,deploymt? #geothink

@re_sieber Mar 03, 3:39pm @ZacSchoen @geothinkca interesting: “I’m suing the city bc your maps are depressing my property values!” #geothink

@josephrobertson Mar 04, 8:39am Heat maps of where photos are taken in cities. petapixel.com/2010/06/09/big… #photo #maps #geothink @petapixel @Mapbox

@mhaklay Mar 04, 10:05am Blogged: Geoweb, crowdsourcing, liability and moral responsibility wp.me/p7DNf-oq extending the #geothink #geowebchat discussion

@geothinkca Mar 04, 1:27pm #Neuroscience meets #cartography in #Geothink’s latest blog article: wp.me/p2ZCGX-td

@TenilleEBrown Mar 04, 1:53pm Thanks for the quick write up Muki. “Geoweb, crowdsourcing, liability and moral responsibility” wp.me/p7DNf-oq @mhaklay #geothink

@mhaklay Mar 04, 1:55pm @TenilleEBrown apologies if in any way I took too much space in the #geothink chat. It’s just a slice of the discussion, though!

@geothinkca Mar 05, 1:59pm #Geothink’s 1st video interview w/ @TeresaScassa by @drewfbush on Canada’s #opengov plan #opendata #openaccess geothink.ca/first-geothink…

@drewfbush 6:09am i made this (i know #first #attempt it will get better) geothink.ca/first-geothink… … #geothink

@geothinkca 8:05am In Tuesday’s #geothink chat, @mhaklay asked how about #DriverlessCars, bad #crowdsource-d #geodata and #murder geothink.ca/crosspost-geow…

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