#geowebchat transcript: 21 January, 2014: Where Next for the MSc in GIS?

@mappingmashups Jan 17, 1:00pm @claireellul how was the MSc in GIS event? Still into having a #geowebchat debrief on the 21st? cc @re_sieber @mhaklay @michael_d_gould

@claireellul Jan 20, 10:57am @mappingmashups That works for me … I’ll post the questions I asked now to give people time to think #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 20, 10:59am #geowebchat Q1 – what industries will employ GIS grads. in the next 5 years, and how much will they get paid?

@claireellul Jan 20, 10:59am #geowebchat Q2 What skills should GIS graduates have – soft skills, GIS theory, technical/applied skills

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:00am #geowebchat Q3 Is there still a need for an MSc in GIS as a general course, or should we be more specialized?

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:01am #geowebchat Q4 – how do we recruit bright students onto our MSc courses and into the profession?

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:01am #geowebchat Q5 – should it still be called GIS or are the GIS people ‘just the people who make the maps’?

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:41am Join me for the next #geowebchat – ‘Where Next for the MSc in GIS’ at 8pm UK time 21st January 2014

@mappingmashups Jan 20, 2:07pm New post: Next #geowebchat: Where Next for the MSc in GIS? January 21, 2014 bit.ly/Lxv9ro

@re_sieber Jan 20, 2:47pm We need more GIScientists for tmr’s #geowebchat Where Next for the MSc in GIS? 3pm EST @CarsonFarmer @carstenkessler bit.ly/Lxv9ro

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 5:59am Looking forward to today’s #geowebchat. Prospective grad student–trying to figure out what kind of program is best! mappingmashups.net/2014/01/20/nex…

@kennethfield Jan 21, 11:22am Given topic is the future of MSc in #GIS courses I may pop up on today’s #geowebchat w/ @mappingmashups @claireellul

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 12:01pm Starting now, @claireellul will be hosting #geowebchat about the future of the MSc in GIS. Some starting Qs: mappingmashups.net/2014/01/20/nex…

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:01pm @mappingmashups … ready to begin! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:01pm Need to clarify first that we’re talking about a Masters of Science in GIS. Are we also talking about GIScience? Or GIS #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:02pm @re_seiber our MSc is GI Science #geowebchat.

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:02pm Perhaps start with introductions #geowebchat? I’m Claire, academic at UCL in London, UK, formerly GIS consultant

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:03pm @re_sieber most masters are not called GIS per se. So how to filter them out? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:05pm @michael_d_gould In the UK we use the “MSc in GIS” term for our degrees (not only at UCL) … what is it called elsewhere? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:05pm Ifi it is a MSc in GIS the what does that mean? Software, specific software, spatial analysis&viz, geostats, data handling,apps? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:06pm @re_seiber … for us, all of the above – and not one specific package but at least 2 – QGIS, ArcGIS, Geomedia. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:06pm @michael_d_gould With all the new “data science” type grad degrees emerging, it’s hard to filter them out to find the spatial 1s #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 12:07pm #geowebchat my UBC masters was in Geography, not GIS/GIScience. Though I had some of that kind of experience taking GIS at Hunter College.

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:07pm @claireellul in USA many people (like myself) get a Master (of Sci or Arts) in Geography but its mostly GI/GIS. #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:08pm Diff b/w an MSci in GISystems or GIScience is key, latter implies more of a geographic backing, the former, technical comp sci #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:08pm #geowebchat. In the UK, 1-year (12 month) programme in GIS. 8 months taught, 4 months project.

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:08pm @mappingmashups where are the Hunter folks in this #geowebchat? @CarsonFarmer? @carstenkessler?

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:09pm @re_sieber I expect to see more degrees called data science e.g. geodata science in the near future. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:10pm @michael_d_gould #geowebchat – that mirrors the view from some of our industrial contacts in the UK . mv away from GIS and towards data sci.

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:10pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups @CarsonFarmer I’m here, hi everyone #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:10pm #geowebchat .. for new arrivals, we’re answering #q3 and #q5 – what to teach and what to call the programme …

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:11pm .@michael_d_gould @claireellul Ryerson has Masters (of Arts) in Spatial Analysis ryerson.ca/graduate/progr… #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:11pm My #geowebchat intro: Ex-academic. 20yrs in UK uni education. Designed and delivered a number of MSc in GIS courses.

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:11pm @claireellul our EU funded Master went for “geospatial technologies” (marketing) mastergeotech.info #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:11pm #geowebchat at ITC in NL we offer a MSc in GIS and Remote Sensing 2 year programme crammed in 18 months

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:11pm I’m just lurking. #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:12pm Looking into grad programs and concerned with what’s more employable. Seems GISystems gives more marketable skills vs science #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:12pm .@carstenkessler @mappingmashups @CarsonFarmer What will Hunter call/teach in its new Masters of GIS? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:12pm #geowebchat @ucl we offer MSc in GIS, and also MSc in spatio-temporal/big data analytics and also MSc in Geomatics for BIM ..

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:13pm #geowebchat got to include some kind of programming, most GIS jobs ask for it now. Cud mean that a geo person misses out2 programmer

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:13pm #geowebchat – in the UK the title ‘MSc in GIS’ is still the most recognized by employers .. (has been around for close to 30 years)

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:13pm MSc GIS courses we ran at Kingston Uni balance of theory/practice. Clear demand fr employers but often wanted grads ‘trained’ #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:14pm #geowebchat .. a bit of a newbie to running this, but perhaps lets spend 5 mins more on ‘what course title’? then move onto the other stuff?

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:14pm .@sidewalkballet Interesting. In MSc GIS, should we teach marketable skills or durable skills or no skills at all? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:15pm speaking of data-centric courses/studies: coursera.org/course/compdata #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:16pm @claireellul #geowebchat our new GIS MSc will probably be named “designing the Future”

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:16pm Kingston MSc included programming though students hated it (like maths!)…also unattractive to potential students #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:16pm @claireellul you (UCL) are VERY fortunate to have such an offering!! kudos. #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:16pm .@re_sieber I think there’s a place for a skills/science theory mix, if people want how-to there are tech post grad programs #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:16pm @re_sieber though unsure the diff btwn marketable and durable skills #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:17pm @claireellul ‘What course title?’ I would wage that most employers would understand “spatial” #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:17pm #geowebchat @re_sieber – teach theoretical background + marketable skills. i.e. not MSc in GI Systems (can go to vendors for that) …

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:17pm @claireellul Wow @ucl offers”MSc in GIS, MSc in spatio-temporal/big data analytics and MSc in Geomatics” Diversity or dilution? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:18pm #geowebchat @re_sieber – specialization! Do we still need the general course?

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:18pm @re_sieber @sidewalkballet most students want a job at the end so it’s not right not to teach durable & marketable skills #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:18pm @kennethfield programming may be difficult to swallow for non-tech students, but it’s a *way of thinking* that they need. #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:18pm @kennethfield Any GIScience degree should contain a good share of programming. Should not be “MSc in using (Arc)GIS” #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:19pm @michael_d_gould agreed, it’s a question of packaging the right mix of theory/skills into something palatable for recruitment #geowebchat

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:19pm #geowebchat also think if poss students should be exposed to different software..not every1 uses esri!! i havent since leaving uni

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:19pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield could you flesh out what “non-tech students” means to you? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:19pm #geowebchat @michael_d_gould – some debate over whether industry needs computer scientists rather than GIS people? or both skills?

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:19pm .@sidewalkballet Marketable GIS might be expert in ArcGIS10.x. Employable right now. Durable is geostats #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:19pm @re_sieber UCL is a top school in a top city. They can offer an MSc in kittycats and get students. :) #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:20pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield the question I guess then is what type of student do you target? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:20pm @re_sieber #geowebchat – durable is also ‘this is what a GIS does’ and I can use all GIS because I know this …

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:20pm @re_sieber @claireellul at @ucl we offer multiple & overlapping routes so it provide specialisation while making it viable #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:20pm @carstenkessler absolutely! no-one said anything about the Arc word…that’s just one element of a well designed course #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:20pm @re_sieber okay yeah, durable. we can go do arc tutorials ourselves. don’t want to pay tuition for it. #geowebchat

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:20pm #geowebchat that is especially true in public sector/emergency services

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:20pm @claireellul #geowebchat @ ITC we continue with the recipe CORE GIS and RS for 3 months specialize for 6 months and do research for 9 months

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:21pm @claireellul @michael_d_gould We employed a computer scientist – they really didn’t get the geo issues – no good at job #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:21pm @eknalprev – #geowebchat – jealous of the 9 months projects .. would love to do that in UK but not feasible financially

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:21pm @AngharadStone .. #geowebchat – what skills/understanding would you say they lacked?

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:21pm #geowebchat i think that element is easier now that @qgis is on the scene. I still cant stand mapinfo tho…

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:22pm @carstenkessler agreed, don’t want package-specific Masters. But *real* GIS means building an app on top of the platform. #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:22pm @claireellul #geowebchat the practical data collection hardly ever goes beyond 1 month for that we lack funds as well

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:22pm .@carstenkessler @kennethfield Any GIScience degree shud contain how to learn ab programming, not specifics bc languages change #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:22pm @AngharadStone @claireellul @michael_d_gould but the algorithms were FAST. ;) #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:22pm We’re in (or should be in) a transition from the ArcGIS driver’s license model to a more data-wonk role. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:22pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber not so true re #top school #geowebchat – we ask for high fees compared with EU competition

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:22pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber not completely true. Our BSc in Geoinformatics failed and also some past MSc programmes :( #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:23pm Too many GIS programs are trapped in the first model. They’re doing their students a disservice by not transitioning. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:23pm @michael_d_gould Instead of GIScience I’d like to offer a masters degree in kittycats & get students (not cats) ;-) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:23pm Our Master in geospat tech has only one “GIS” course, the rest is fundamental tech and method. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:23pm Varied bgrounds (geog, comp sci) but its an integrating discipline…we called one MSc ‘Applied GIS’, other ‘GIScience’ #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:24pm @re_sieber @kennethfield Agreed, but you don’t learn programming by reading books. Learn one language, then the next is easy. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:24pm @mhaklay ok, so there ARE limits to breadth. :) #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:24pm @claireellul anything spatial from points & polygons (spent 1/2 hour explaining areas) to Regular expressions for postcodes #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:25pm Any GIS program w/o mandatory Databases + Programming is stealing their student’s money — they won’t be prepared for the future. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:25pm btw, our BSc in GIS closed. Tough to recruit from schools. GIS now lives within ‘Geography’ or only thru advanced quals like MSc #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:25pm This. MT @michael_d_gould: programming may be difficult for non-tech students, but it’s a *way of thinking* that they need. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:26pm @AngharadStone in many cases CS types (programmers) DO pick up geo nicely. #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:26pm @claireellul Do not under estimate the value of teaching geo/spatial programming #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:26pm Where do visualization and cartography stand in graduate GISci programs? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:26pm @nixzusehen #geowebchat .. as we offer both at UCL I would of course agree!

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:26pm .@cn174 Shud we have domain MSc’s? A MSc of Geomatics for biz, emergency services…? Students may want hi level of specificity #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:27pm @mhaklay @michael_d_gould @re_sieber So where is there a BSc in Geoinformatics in UK? I know of one in Newcastle. Any others? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:27pm @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone I’ve often said a that it’s easier to teach a programmer GIS than the other way around. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:27pm @AngharadStone I agree – we teach both databases and programming using ‘geo’ examples … e.g. loction based gaming. #geowebchat

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:27pm Somewhat off topic: we’re running now a whole module on HCI/Usability and geo. Anyone else even think about users? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:28pm @mjfoster83 I think they’re getting short shrift. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:28pm @re_sieber @cn174 that idea came up last week too – the ‘GIS+’ degree, where + could be civ engineering, disaster mgmt etc. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 12:28pm Forex, the new hire reading list at Mapbox isn’t about geo, they assume you can pick it up on yr own. gist.github.com/tmcw/6814708 #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:28pm @michael_d_gould I am very jealous if you have found so, I have not – & lets not start talking about how bad their carto is! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:28pm viz & carto strong if faculty staff have expertise…else not so much. curricula always shaped by staff #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:28pm @re_sieber @cn174 the idea has been well received so far! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:28pm .@mhaklay @michael_d_gould Always fascinated me that Bachelors, Grad degrees had expiration dates, ie fell out of favor #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:29pm we focus on the academic level thinking about spatial info. basic skills is part+ possble to chose informatics or socsci angle #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:29pm @kennethfield same here: GIS only in MSc and part time fhwn.ac.at/en/Studies/Eng… #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:29pm side question: why do so FEW CS programmes/degrees focus on geo/spatial? #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:29pm @mappingmashups I want to read that, but it took me to an empty gist? #geowebchat

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:29pm @udemsar Swansea, Ulster, Brighton … but Newcastle is alone in the Russell Group I think #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:29pm @nixzusehen In tandem with viz and cart, UI/UX and usability need consideration. #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:30pm Should introduce myself, as I just accidentally fell into #geowebchat. Lecturer in Geoinformatics,at @CGIStAndrews, area geovisual analytics

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:30pm @mappingmashups and therein lies a problem…assuming you can “pick up” geo is plain wrong #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:31pm @kennethfield @mappingmashups we’re very bad at explaining why geo is not driving word but needs expertise like statsistics #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:31pm @mjfoster83 @CASAUCL runs an MRes in Advanced Spatial Analysis and Visualisation, one of the few though I think #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:31pm in all “we” want to cover everything. difficulty is to choose what to limit to. what do future students want to learn? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:31pm @nixzusehen @michael_d_gould True to teach GIS, not to teach all the background understanding of location, spatial, geo #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:31pm @claireellul that’s what Steinitz recommends for Geodesign: not standalone rather GD for x discipline. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:31pm .@michael_d_gould No geo in CS programs bc space to them is 2 extra columns or it’s already covered in math (topology, geometry) #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:32pm @michael_d_gould the problem with CS degrees is a whole different conversation. They’re often too abstract relative to jobs. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:32pm @AngharadStone normally you don’t assign the programmer carto duties ;) #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:33pm @mjfoster83 @nixzusehen MSc GIS also needs spatial data handling of heterogeneous data, spatial data mining #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:33pm About MScs, we’re starting MSc in Geoinformatics in 2015 at @CGIStAndrews, in #qstep programme.Will be methods/development MSc #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:33pm We’re fortunate to see high demand for our Penn State MGIS online program – 200+ active students, programming/db topics popular #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:33pm @nixzusehen @michael_d_gould #geowebchat .. indeed, one of the strengths of GIS MSc is the applied nature of the work!

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:33pm GIS is spatial theory, maths, analytics, geostats, cart, programming etc. MSc needs to cover a lot, not all equally attractive! #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:34pm @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone funny they don’t get carto duties but are expected to do ux duties … ux supposedly easier? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:34pm #geowebchat I have had to take a few new colleagues through a vigorous reading of @kennethfield ‘s CartoBlog – their maps are appalling

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:34pm don;t get me started ;-) RT @michael_d_gould: @AngharadStone normally you don’t assign the programmer carto duties ;) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:34pm @kennethfield on the other hand loads of geographers take a python course and compete for soft engineering jobs. #fail #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:34pm .@mjfoster83 Geoviz is still pretty important in grad GISci programs but it doesn’t look like cartography. More like GUI #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:36pm @underdarkGIS also a mistake to dump UX on unassuming programmers. same for sales, writing, etc. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:36pm #geowebchat . I’m seeing general consensus on teaching GI Science skills + databases/software?

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:36pm @underdarkGIS @michael_d_gould I would say that Geo (both maps and the functionality) UX is very hard #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:36pm @re_sieber agreed, but should there be a difference? I would argue modern cartography is in large part GUI design #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:36pm My approach to include programming in #MSA last term: indiv. student projects in carto/geoviz course. DB mgmt is a core course. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:36pm #geowebchat but less consensus on whether CS people will work out or not?

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:37pm At K’ton we ditched refs to ‘cartography’, ‘statistics’ & ‘programming’. instead: ‘viz/mapping’, ‘analysis’ & ‘development’ #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:37pm @A_C_Robinson you guys are doing it better than most. Also have faculty to support it, which is uncommon. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:38pm #geowebchat .. OK, so what about who will employ graduates in the next 5 years?

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:38pm My observation is that flexible coursework options are essential, challenging to support when you also want consistent graduates #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:38pm @claireellul I now teach CS students: in general they are fearless problem-solvers; a nice quality for any team. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:38pm @mjfoster83 Couldn’t agree more. We lose so much of cartography when we rebrand it as geoviz #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:38pm Do any MSc GIS courses teach whole units solely devoted to programming? Spatially oriented or otherwise? If so, which languages? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:39pm @michael_d_gould my ideal would be a CS graduate intake to the MSc programme .. because I teach Java + Databases! #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:39pm @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone it can take a while to convince CSs that geo is anything different #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:39pm @edthink we do web and mobile – purely java programming. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:39pm @re_sieber @mjfoster83 agreed…but rebranding is simply to avoid student pre-conceptions. Content is key #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:40pm @nixzusehen Thanks, I think we do a good job too. It started small though and I think many schools bite off too much at first. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:40pm @jeremy_morley @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone I thnk that is where industry/professional orgs. can help! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:40pm .@kennethfield Is degree name (eg MSc in geo #bigdata analytics) & content (viz) merely a rebranding of what we’ve always done? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:40pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield just saw an interesting report that CS degree was un-correlated to success as programmer. #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:40pm I’m reading here that we must be happy at ITC, able to cover all angles with a dedicated 100 faculty. whether to choose at all. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:40pm @kennethfield @re_sieber @mjfoster83 Would you also rebrand the name of the programme? What would you call it? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:41pm Repeat: real industrial GIS users use apps developed by consultants. They don’t use stock menus inside the stock Arc box. #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:41pm @edthink we do. Currently switching from VB (!) to Python. “Spatial Data Handling” @UoNGeography #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:41pm @claireellul #geowebchat recent trend in Toronto: geospatial HEALTH analyst. as well, regular postings for market analysts = business field.

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:41pm In which MSc are they teaching how to integrate the geo/spatial into larger industrial apps to solve specific problems? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:42pm @claireellul employes? Not me :-( #geowebchat say goodbye to the safe home of UK public sector

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:42pm @ClausRinner So the ‘GIS+’ idea seems to be a good one then! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:42pm @re_sieber I think so. Content always evolves (or should). Rebranding makes it something ‘current’ for students & employers #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:42pm @edthink We plan to do this in new MSc, is urgent bc of student diversity. Will be Java,Processing,maybe Matlab/R for stats work #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:42pm @claireellul ah yes, we tried java for half of GISPT in first term and didn’t work v well, needs longer I think #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:42pm .@michael_d_gould Great pt. (Would love to see data on this.) Should GI MSc train the users or the consultants? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:42pm @claireellul @jeremy_morley @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone Ugh. Professional orgs focused too much on present, not on future. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:43pm @nixzusehen yes, well, true that many good programmers did not study CS per se. #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:44pm @jeremy_morley interesting, I think Python is ideal. Integrated with Arc, stand alone or both? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:44pm .@claireellul @kennethfield @mjfoster83 A MSc in spatial #bigdata analytics. That should be sufficiently buzzword-compliant #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:44pm @claireellul @re_sieber no one knows what GIS exactly is (science? system?!) and cartography is conceived as antequated, so yes #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:44pm @edthink they do python in 1st term now (5 wks) then java in second term for 10 wks. mostly API stuff due to time constaraints. #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:44pm @nixzusehen Absolutely. Arguable whether a CompSci even has to know “programming” #geowebchat //cc @drdrmc

@TheRascala Jan 21, 12:44pm @A_C_Robinson Students would benefit from working with real time data order to get them ready for the job market #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:45pm @udemsar @edthink I find it’s better to learn one language really well. Python is my first choice for GIS, datavis, stats #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:45pm #geowebchat re career prep, are other programs using Geospatial Technology Competency Model, careeronestop.org/competencymode…, for curriculum dev?

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:45pm @claireellul @re_sieber MSci of <insert buzz word here> #perhapstoocynical #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:45pm @nixzusehen @claireellul @jeremy_morley Yes because I want you to do a job right now – would hire as R&D otherwise #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:45pm @edthink At Münster, the BSc (!) students have to take a whole bunch of CS and math classes. #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:45pm @edthink But ideally, student should learn programming solidly before MSc, also relevant maths & stats. #possiblyunrealistic #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:45pm @ClausRinner Not in the UK as far as I am aware … #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:46pm @mattmoehr teach the consultants: the app-builders. Users are punters who have a non-GIS job to do. #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:46pm @udemsar @edthink mostly because it is really hard to switch between language. One lang helps focus on actual problem solving #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:46pm @mjfoster83 @claireellul @re_sieber UCL now has an MRes in Smart Cities and Urban Analytics… interesting but will it be useful #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:46pm @mjfoster83 @re_sieber the question is would <buzzword> recruit good students onto the course and get them jobs after? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:46pm .@mattmoehr @michael_d_gould Cloud, mashing up have made distinctions btwn user & consultant vague. Many more levels now as well #geowebchat

@jedalong Jan 21, 12:47pm In what sense should an MSc or MGIS be different fron a technical diploma? I think there has to be independent research. #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:47pm @udemsar it’s tricky but I think this ‘way of thinking’ prog brings is most important, esp for non tech students #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:47pm @claireellul All things geospatial will continue making inroads into more mainstream business application, big potential market. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:48pm @jeremy_morley for CS programming is like a typewriter is to a literature student; how you communicate. #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:48pm @re_sieber @michael_d_gould most of my hacking never gets polished/tested/implemented as an app. #personalFail #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:48pm @michael_d_gould MSc at KTH, Stockholm. Course was led by guests from industry who brought a problem for students 2solve. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:48pm Let’s face it, Geog is not considered ‘sexy’. Comp Sci is considered ‘hard’. Buzzwords go long way to helping bridge the issue #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:48pm @claireellul ‘future employers’ seeing increasing tread in public out sourcing GI services to private – in UK think G-cloud #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:49pm @edthink we’ll also have a new “Wdb Technologies” MSc GIS module next year #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:49pm @underdarkGIS @udemsar I’d agree with this, Python is flexible, cross platform, with simple syntax, plus has Arc integration #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:50pm .@jedalong P’haps we should make greater distinctions btwn postgrad diplomas in GIS and MSc in GIS. Latter has indep research? #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:50pm @edthink These courses are free to use/re-use through our Open Educational Resources initiative as well: open.ems.psu.edu #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:50pm @re_sieber @jedalong certainly for us that is the case #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:50pm @claireellul #geowebchat demand here not large enough for GIS+ programs; each #MSA cohort covers business to environm to health to crime…

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:51pm @kennethfield In MSc GIS, buzzwords soothe the soul #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:51pm @re_sieber @jedalong Our MGIS students complete a capstone, which quite often now leads to published research. Lines blurring #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:51pm and are the mother of reinvention RT @re_sieber: In MSc GIS, buzzwords soothe the soul #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:52pm @A_C_Robinson how long is your programme? #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:52pm @jeremy_morley that’s great. Sounds like a good course structure wrt student prospects #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:53pm @claireellul #geowebchat 2/2 core/common platform (fulltime & parttime students) and transferable skills key for #MSA grads from Ryerson.

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:53pm @kennethfield I’m realizing @foss4g needs a series of talks/panels on the future of GIS/geo-related education. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:53pm .@ClausRinner @claireellul @ucl may be unique in the world in terms of its Masters in Geo/GI x offerings #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:53pm @re_sieber @jedalong Agreed, intellectually and critically advancing the field is different than learning tools. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:55pm Not sure if we’ve answered the qns I posed? Cld we just tweet how much grads. should get paid + where they will be working? #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:55pm @edthink hopefully. We’re in transition still. Ask me this time next year! #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:56pm In UK, around £25,000, retail, health, degence, govt. insurance, planning, property, finance, demographics, transport. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:57pm To summarise: 1: teach geo concepts not how to drive the software #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:57pm To summarise: 2: computer science/programming skills are important #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:57pm jobs I’ve seen in UK recently offer derisory salary (< £18k) yet want everything = reduces incentive to study/get quals #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:57pm @lolkins cool. We’ll be on version 3 of web pracs this year. Portable Virtual Box from stick instead of booting from them. #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:57pm @edthink So this creates new problems, because you cannot bore the techy students and you cannot ask too much of the non-techy #geowebchat

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:57pm #geowebchat I think starting salaries (and salaries in general) are getting less, which must be off putting

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:57pm GIS grads will get jobs in domains (health, transp). I just wish they cud get jobs@ Google, etc so they cud infl platform dev #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:58pm #prt appalling low salaries for unique skill sets. :( #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:58pm ‘@claireellul ‘where to work’ – private consulting for gov departments ‘how much’ – approx £25k starting bu no job security #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:59pm @carstenkessler @edthink but that’s been a tension in GIS classes for the last 15yrs I’ve taught on them! #techiesvsgeographers #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:59pm @claireellul 28-40k eur is what I’ve heard so far #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:59pm many of our MSc students were p/t students. course paid by employers to retrain/update #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:00pm @cn174 All the more reason to get a GIS PhD! Just joking. Current mkt terrible. How ab teaching GIS grad ab union organizing? #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 1:00pm Where does everyone recruit for MScs? CS/maths/stats students? Geographers? Diversity of backgrounds can cause problems for MSc #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:00pm @jeremy_morley @carstenkessler @edthink MSc GIS is a ‘comp sci conversion for geogs’ and a ‘geog/social sci conv. for comp sci’ #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 1:01pm @carstenkessler exactly, it’s tricky, although lucky that scripting languages now more popular/dev’d, easier to teach non-techs #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 1:02pm @claireellul @carstenkessler @edthink indeed. #geowebchat I always tell a class they’ll know some of it already, but each a different bit

@cn174 Jan 21, 1:02pm #geowebchat e.g. “WANTED Graduate, ArcGIS/AutoCAD also exp in SQL/Oracle/Python/VB FME, OGC Standards/Inspire bla bla etc. £17,000″ rubbish!

@CarsonFarmer Jan 21, 1:02pm Great question @udemsar We’re looking pretty widely in some cases, geog & cs mostly at this point. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:02pm @AngharadStone @kennethfield interestingly our MScs are doing well. Some of them are being recruited now, course ends Sept 2014. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 1:02pm Well, looks like the hour has run out for #geowebchat. Thanks so much @claireellul for organizing an excellent chat!

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:03pm @udemsar I recruit my Masters students from geography. To do the hardcore data handling, algorithms, umm, I get them from CS #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 1:03pm @udemsar recruiters ask “what can you do?” and the exact MSc label is secondary. #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 1:03pm @claireellul @jeremy_morley @carstenkessler @edthink the human-environment geographer in me wishes that were more true. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 1:03pm Another relevant datapoint regarding salaries are these results from a 2011 salary survey in the US: directionsmag.com/articles/geose… #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 1:03pm @carstenkessler @edthink But it’s a blessing and a curse. Interdisciplinary teaching is tougher but valuable! //cc @HorizonDER #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 1:04pm @CarsonFarmer Our local geogs are nontechs, but we are working on it #qstep. #techiesvsgeographers #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:05pm Thanks to all for your input .. looks like this debate will continue here and elsewhere! #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:05pm Some clear conclusions (need comp sci skills + need to teach theory) .. but also lots of things to think about! #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 1:05pm Excellent #geowebchat @claireellul look forward to seeing you in March “UCL (GIS) Careers Event” eventbrite.com/e/ucl-geograph… via @eventbrite

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:06pm .@jeremy_morley @carstenkessler “Interdisciplinary teaching is tougher but valuable!” Also never rewarded in academia #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 1:06pm @claireellul thanks to you and to all #geowebchat ers

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 1:07pm thanks @claireellul – great topic to lurk on #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:07pm Great #geowebchat today! Look for the digest on mappingmashups.net

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 1:07pm Next #geowebchat will be on February 4th. Provisional topic is “Open data and the geoweb”, hosted by @geothinkca

@kennethfield Jan 21, 1:08pm thanks for hosting the #geowebchat @claireellul & also to @mappingmashups #goodtimes

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 1:08pm @re_sieber @carstenkessler depends where you are! Our Digital Economy CDT & research hub is all about interdisc.-see @HorizonDER #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 1:08pm Agreed! RT @michael_d_gould @claireellul thanks to you and to all #geowebchat ers

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:09pm Thanks @claireellul for a great #geowebchat and I’ll see you in Spring/Summer

@vtcraghead Jan 21, 1:47pm @tmcw @nixzusehen @kennethfield @mappingmashups The Q is “Will @Mapbox suffer for lack of GIS staff”? I’m going with “No”. #geowebchat

@CIRCAInstitute Jan 21, 2:15pm RT @mappingmashups: Next #geowebchat will be on February 4th. Provisional topic is “Open data and the geoweb”, hosted by @geothinkca

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:27pm Somewhat off topic: we’re running now a whole module on HCI/Usability and geo. Anyone else even think about users? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:25pm Any GIS program w/o mandatory Databases + Programming is stealing their student’s money — they won’t be prepared for the future. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:23pm Our Master in geospat tech has only one “GIS” course, the rest is fundamental tech and method. #geowebchat

@Dragons8mycat Jan 22, 12:35am RT @mappingmashups: Next #geowebchat will be on February 4th. Provisional topic is “Open data and the geoweb”, hosted by @geothinkca

@Dragons8mycat Jan 22, 12:37am Great #geowebchat last night discussing the MSc in #GIS – suggest all you #geotypes drop in on the 4th Feb for the next one #opendata

@digitalurban Jan 22, 6:13am …@edthink @mjfoster83 More info on our courses here: bartlett.ucl.ac.uk/casa/programme… #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:45pm @udemsar @edthink I find it’s better to learn one language really well. Python is my first choice for GIS, datavis, stats #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:38pm Do any MSc GIS courses teach whole units solely devoted to programming? Spatially oriented or otherwise? If so, which languages? #geowebchat

@jedalong Jan 21, 12:47pm In what sense should an MSc or MGIS be different fron a technical diploma? I think there has to be independent research. #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley 8:02am @mhaklay yes! We offer HF optional modules in our MSc GIS. #geowebchat #Tweetedbetterlatethannever

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Next #geowebchat: Where Next for the MSc in GIS? January 21, 2014

Next #geowebchat: Tuesday 21st January 2014, 12pm PST, 3pm EST, 8pm GMT.

[Guest post by Claire Ellul]

Hi all,

We’d like to invite you to the next #geowebchat – ‘Where Next for the MSc in GIS?’. To quickly introduce myself, I’m a Lecturer in GIS at University College London in the UK, and prior to becoming an academic I was a GIS consultant for 10 years, based in the UK but working in Europe and the Middle East.

Here in the UK there is great demand for the specialist skills provided by the MSc in GIS, with students finding employment prior to completing the course. However, there is an increasing lack of supply. This is coupled with an increasingly wider range of skills required from graduates, more of which are highly technical. We’re also introducing new, more specialist courses (MSc in Geomatics for Building Information Modelling and MSc in Spatio-Temporal Analytics and Big Data Mining) and we’d love to find out whether the traditional general MSc is still relevant. We’ve held a face to face meeting with contacts in London, but there has also been interest from elsewhere and we think the topic is relevant to many other groups too! So we’re asking the following questions:

1. What sectors will be employing GIS graduates in 5 years, and how much will they be paying?

2. What skills should the students have?

3. What courses should we run? Is a general MSc in GIS still relevant, or do we need more specialist courses?

4. How can we recruit bright students into the profession?

5. Is the word GIS still relevant or are GIS people ‘the people who make the maps’?

Hope to see you online ..

Best regards


Posted in geowebchat, Mapping | Leave a comment

#geowebchat transcript: 17 December 2013: #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups Dec 06, 11:40am New post: Vote for the Top Geo Story of 2013: #topgeostoryof2013 bit.ly/1bm8F58

@kgjenkins Dec 09, 6:59pm In May, @MapBox launched new iD editor for @openstreetmap #topgeostoryof2013

@kgjenkins Dec 09, 7:00pm QGIS 2.0 drops the “quantum” #topgeostoryof2013

@neogeografen Dec 10, 1:28pm Media world wide january writting Google Maps were the first to create a digital map of North Korea #geohoax story #topgeostoryof2013

@kgjenkins Dec 12, 1:51pm @eltonteb @Elijah_Meeks @sgillies @MapBox #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups Dec 13, 12:52pm What was the #topgeostoryof2013? Send me your votes by December 17: mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:00am .@mappingmashups another vote for @hotosm as a #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:03am .@mappingmashups a vote for #topgeostoryof2013 is prioritization of #geoint in US workforce development nap.edu/catalog.php?re… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:08am another #topgeostoryof2013 is pushback against #geotagging bc of how much it reveals ab you youtu.be/5P_0s1TYpJU #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:12am #topgeostoryof2013 Even after the Apple Maps flop, Google Maps still lost customers to it theguardian.com/technology/201… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:15am #topgeostoryof2013 Cartodb’s platform to create maps from data feeds hosted on external sites blog.cartodb.com/post/656397473… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:20am #topgeostoryof2013 cities w local police gaining access 2 #bigdata, phone, CCTV, soc media, tolls, drones nytimes.com/2013/10/14/tec… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:22am #topgeostoryof2013 Crowdsourcing urban temperature w smartphone battery temperatures and OpenSignal App onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/gr… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:25am #topgeostoryof2013 US gov shutdown affects geospatial data access, from NASA, Census Bureau, NOAA, etc. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:29am #topgeostoryof2013 NSA admits tracking locations of cellphone calls in US thehill.com/blogs/hillicon… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:33am #topgeostoryof2013 crowdsourced maps possible future of navigation gigaom.com/2013/09/15/are… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:37am #topgeostoryof2013 Being sued for VGI: Hotel owner sues tripadvisor reuters.com/article/2013/0… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:41am #topgeostoryof2013 GPS is affecting our natural ability to navigate bostonglobe.com/ideas/2013/08/… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:46am #topgeostoryof2013 Using 3D printing to create mobile cities for hermit crabs weburbanist.com/2013/08/02/her… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54am #topgeostoryof2013 the backlash to #bigdata, #smalldata theguardian.com/news/datablog/… like local bus, recycling routes #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 8:15am #topgeostoryof2013 is the #fail of hyperlocal content aggregators. First Everyblock & now Patch nytimes.com/2013/12/16/bus… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 16, 11:55am Tomorrow on #geowebchat, we’re counting down to the #topgeostoryof2013. Send your votes & join the chat, Tue 12p PST mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 3:45pm Another article supporting courts& #geosurveillance 4 #topgeostoryof2013: Warrants needed to track phone locations nj.com/politics/index…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 4:04pm #topgeostoryof2013 the mapping of traces in urban landscape left by social media tracemedia.co.uk/luminous/ via @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 5:49pm Another company made poss only bc of geog tech, Airbnb runs afoul of city regulations valleywag.gawker.com/new-york-senat… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 6:28pm Hard to argue w this nom for #topgeostoryof2013 geography teacher geek chic beautyworldnews.com/articles/3300/… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 16, 7:12pm #topgeostoryof2013 has to be iD editor for #osm by @MapBox

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:20pm #topgeostoryof2013 #OSM reaches 1million users #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:23pm #SpatialDigitalHumanities #topgeostoryof2013 A spatial network model of travel in ancient Rome youtu.be/KwoshD3esdc orbis.stanford.edu

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:25pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 The decline in #geotagging & turrning off of location tracking, esp among teens marketingland.com/pew-nearly-hal… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:27pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 fb developing location tracker bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-0… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:32pm #topgeostoryof2013 Google Moto X heralds next big thing in smartphones, geolocative predictive intell technologyreview.com/news/514366/wi… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:35pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 E-commerce sites automatically vary prices based on your location lifehacker.com/5973689/how-we… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:37pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Launch of social checkin mobile app to identify location based racism locationbasedracismapp.launchrock.com #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:39pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Unreliability of Google Flu nature.com/news/when-goog… & global mapping of infectious diseases rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/368/16…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:44pm #topgeostoryof2013 Hazard of tweeting for crisis commn:Calgary police go 2Twitter jail 4 too many tweets during flood vancouversun.com/technology/Les…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:45pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 The anti social checkin mapping app hell.j38.net to put optimal spatial distance btwn you &your ‘friends’

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:47pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Drones for war, drones for environment & in 2013 drones for peace washingtonpost.com/world/national… My solution? No drones

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:51pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Ancient city found using LIDAR theage.com.au/world/the-lost… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:53pm #topgeostoryof2013 Now illegal to map concealed gun owners in Louisiana & other backlashes to gun mapping gawker.com/5974290/look-b… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 With an app & a GPS wristband, a DIY prison wo walls popularmechanics.com/how-to/blog/sx… #badidea #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 #bigdata meets #geosurveillance in the workplace to squeeze out that last bit of productivity online.wsj.com/news/articles/…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 8:08pm #topgeostoryof2013 term geofencing, ad hoc geog boundaries.Apps generate alerts when employees,others cross perimeter directionsmag.com/articles/how-t…

@eknalprev 7:28am #topgeostoryof2013 Voyager 1 Reaches Interstellar Space science.nasa.gov/science-news/s… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 8:06am #topgeostoryof2013 web map dynamic hill shading blew my mind: mapbox.com/blog/dynamic-h… @MapBox

@mappingmashups 10:04am Today on #geowebchat, send me your votes for the #topgeostoryof2013 mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot… then join the chat at 12pm PST, 3pm EST, 8pm GMT.

@mappingmashups 10:05am Would also love to hear the #GISChat people’s votes for the #topgeostoryof2013 mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot…

@mappingmashups 11:38am Great nominees for the #topgeostoryof2013 tweeted by @re_sieber in the last few days. Definitely worth perusing. RTs = votes! #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag 11:52am New GoogleMaps? @googlemaps #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 11:59am Here are some “interesting maps” of 2013 from @GISLounge. gislounge.com/interesting-ma… Any #topgeostoryof2013 contenders here? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Hi everyone, and welcome to the last #geowebchat of the year. For the next hour we’ll be talking about (& voting for) the #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:00pm If you don’t want to follow along, see if your twitter client can mute the hashtag #geowebchat and/or #topgeostoryof2013.

@MapHugger 12:02pm Can “@MapBox does every cool thing ever” count as #topgeostoryof2013? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:03pm If you want to follow the #geowebchat, try using twitterfall.com where you can search for both hashtags. Or: twitter.com/search?q=%23ge…

@re_sieber 12:03pm @mappingmashups for today’s #geowebchat, what’s the preferred hashtag? That or #topgeostoryof2013? Using 2 hashtags cuts down on characters.

@mappingmashups 12:03pm @MapHugger It can, and I’ve already received many votes to that effect. :) #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:04pm @re_sieber I think we should stick to #geowebchat. Including #topgeostoryof2013 is optional. But I will record both in the transcript.

@re_sieber 12:04pm .@mappingmashups I have ~30-40 #topgeostoryof2013. So RT at will #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm We’ll spend the first half of this #geowebchat as a discussion, and you are free to keep voting. In the 2nd half hour I’ll tally the votes.

@re_sieber 12:07pm I vote for the rise of geolocative predictive intelligence w Moto X as a #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat Not just your traces but where u go

@mappingmashups 12:07pm Last year there were a few other geo blogs that posted top 10 lists for 2012, but I didn’t see anything similar for 2013. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:08pm Here’s the link for @re_sieber’s vote about the Moto X. I hadn’t read that one. technologyreview.com/news/514366/wi… #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@re_sieber 12:09pm RT #topgeostoryof2013, decline of #geotagging & location tracking turned off, which has huge implications for geog research #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:10pm I nominate #NSA revealing they can and do geolocational tracking of mobile phones (and prob. same for #FBI) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:11pm Nearly half of teens have turned off location tracking marketingland.com/pew-nearly-hal… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:12pm .@JeremyCrampton Also much involvement of courts this yr in NSA location tracking #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:13pm How about the wave of neogeo DIY pedagogy? @cartoDB’s #MapAcademy, @tmcw’s #mapschool, & #maptime at @stamen & other locations.. #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:15pm @re_sieber totes #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:15pm A phys/virtual #topgeostoryof2013 is rise of uber, lyft, airbnb, only poss bc of geospatial & their battles w city regulations #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:16pm @re_sieber I would be curious to see how much of this is privacy motivated vs battery motivated #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:18pm .@mjfoster83 RT how much of teens turning off loc tracking is privacy vs battery motivated? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:23pm RT #topgeostoryof2013 Rise of #OSM, in # users, @hotosm new GUIs, probs w Google, Apple #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm @re_sieber Definitely lots of #OSM stories to vote for. Don’t forget the new iD editor, which is a huge deal. #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:26pm RT @Brobdingnag: based on ppl who sent the link because ‘you like maps’ @jshkatz ‘s dialect maps fosho spark.rstudio.com/jkatz/SurveyMa… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:26pm Something from #DiggingIntoDataChallenge RT #topgeostoryof2013 Rise of research into urban mapping of social media traces #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:28pm Following up on the death of #hyperlocal news nytimes.com/2013/12/16/bus…, @everyblock’s surprising return chicagogrid.com/news/everybloc… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:29pm Was 2013 the year of vector maps? New @googlemaps, MapBox vector tiles, etc? #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@re_sieber 12:30pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 is reactions to #bigdata: rise of #smalldata & #darkdata & #fail of ROI of #bigdata analytics #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:32pm @mappingmashups, i’m overlimit on nyt free views, but what do people think about private geosocial? e.g, nextdoor.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:33pm Okay everybody, last chance to vote. Read over the #geowebchat & #topgeostoryof2013 tweets & send as many votes as you can fit in a tweet.

@re_sieber 12:33pm #topgeostoryof2013 Even after the Apple Maps flop, Google Maps still lost customers to it theguardian.com/technology/201… #geowebchat BYOD #fail

@mappingmashups 12:34pm @erictheise I hadn’t thought of @Nextdoor as “private geosocial”, but I suppose in a sense that’s what it is. But so is #4sq? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:34pm Possible #topgeostory2013 Penn State geo MOOC with 1/3 of students completing! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:35pm .@erictheise @mappingmashups private geosocial like nextdoor.com may be solution to hyperlocal content aggregation #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:35pm Possible #topgeostoryof2013 Penn State geo MOOC with 1/3 of students completing! #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:35pm @mappingmashups, i hadn’t either, but that’s @Nextdoor’s tagline: ‘The private social network for your neighborhood.’ #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:36pm 1 vote for the rise of @openstreetmap #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:36pm Too bumpy in DC taxi for tweeting. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:37pm .@michael_d_gould 1/3 of MOOC students completing is a success story #geowebchat discipline-dependent MOOC completion rates? #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:38pm or, the year open source became approachable #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@gregorymarler 12:39pm @mappingmashups I mapped some house numbers on my street for #OSM. #topgeostoryof2013 Small story, big impact if we all keep doing it.

@neogeografen 12:40pm 1 vote for all the good work @hotosm with their contributors did world wide #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:41pm Any fave new geoweb sites this year for #topgeostoryof2013? I nom spatial travel model of ancient Rome orbis.stanford.edu #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:43pm Okay, I had to make some arbitrary groupings for some of these, but here come the top 10 entries for the #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat…

@mappingmashups 12:44pm #10 Release of QGIS 2.0 and the dropping of “Quantum”. The premier open source GIS takes a big step forward. #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@SterlingGIS 12:46pm @mappingmashups DIY neogeography sites you mentioned are largely made possible because of HTML5 and SaaS cloud tech. rising #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:46pm #9 @jshkatz’s dialect maps were voted as the most popular maps of the year by #geowebchat readers. spark.rstudio.com/jkatz/SurveyMa… #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:48pm #8 @MapBox’s dynamic hillshading by @mourner is one of many @MapBox faves on the #topgeostoryof2013 list mapbox.com/blog/dynamic-h… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:48pm .@SterlingGIS @mappingmashups In 2013, we saw the rise (ie actual use) of SaaS for both GIS & #neogeoweb #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:49pm #7 The “year of @openstreetmap” was represented by #OSM hitting 1 million users blog.openstreetmap.org/2013/01/06/1-m… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@stamenglo 12:49pm #topgeostory2013 #geowebchat Surely it was @stamen hiring @mappingmashups!!!

@SterlingGIS 12:50pm @mappingmashups Now QGIS has a professional-looking interface I imagine it being more competitive. That stuff counts. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:51pm .@mappingmashups Hmm, your 10 #topgeostoryof2013 is a bit product heavy #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:51pm #6 Notable successes, failures, & sudden rebirths in #hyperlocal news (@Nextdoor @PatchTweet @everyblock etc) #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:53pm #5 The year of alternative geo pedagogy: @A_C_Robinson’s maps #MOOC, #mapacademy, #maptime, #mapschool, etc #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:54pm @re_sieber Different voters this year? Or maybe this is the year of products. Lots of product votes didn’t make the cut, too. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm #4 Revelations about NSA #geosurveillance (and other geo-tracking stories) #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mhaklay 12:55pm @SterlingGIS @mappingmashups strange how ‘professional looking’ == ArcGIS. Why can’t QGIS rethink GIS interface? #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:56pm #OpenStreetMap got some worldwide press around the Haiyan relief mapping. Will it have a hockey stick moment in 2014? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:56pm #3 @hotosm’s activation for Typhoon #Haiyan/#Yolanda. Biggest #crisismapping effort since Haiti? Bigger? #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@bethschechter 12:57pm +1 #5 The year of alternative geo pedagogy: @A_C_Robinson maps #MOOC, #mapacademy, #maptime, #mapschool, etc #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:58pm @mhaklay @mappingmashups I refer to the cyan and magenta icons for adding data and the multiple labeling dialogs pre 2.0. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:58pm #2 Another @openstreetmap/@MapBox story: the release of the iD editor, making #OSM much more user-friendly. #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm The #topgeostoryof2013: @MapBox’s funding & general awesomeness mapbox.com/blog/10million…. Big implications for the open geoweb. #geowebchat

@erictheise 1:01pm nice work again assembling the yearly roundup, @mappingmashups, thanks, happy holidays to all of youse on #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:03pm Votes for @MapBox’s vector maps & cloudless atlas didn’t make the cut, but certainly solidified their #topgeostoryof2013 ranking #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:05pm Thanks everybody for a great year of #geowebchat! See you on Jan 7. Add webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal to your calendar & never miss a chat.

@mhaklay 1:07pm I’m joining too late – great list of #topgeostoryof2013 but how the $1B for Waze which mean a price tag for VGI is missing? #geowebchat

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping, Networks | Leave a comment

Vote for the Top Geo Story of 2013: #topgeostoryof2013

For the final #geowebchat of the year (which will be Tuesday, December 17, at 12pm PST), I am collecting your votes for the top news story of the year in the field of geography and geospatial technology. On the 17th I will add up all your votes and post a crowdsourced top 10 list of the biggest geo stories of 2013.

Please send me your votes, either through comments on this blog post, or on twitter using the hashtag #topgeostoryof2013. One vote per person please (but if you must vote for more than one, please rank your votes in order of preference: #1, #2, etc.)

To give you some ideas, here are the top stories you picked for 2012:

  1. The Apple iOS6 Maps fail
  2. Nate Silver’s use of geostatistics and big data to predict the US presidential election
  3. ESRI acquiring GeoCommons and GeoLoqi
  4. The David Imus map of the United States
  5. The emergence of cheap drones, sensors and the dawning Internet of Things
  6. Two tribes emerge (geoweb and GIScience research) within academia
  7. The geoweb and the rise of “Big Data”
  8. The diversification of maps APIs
  9. The undiscovering of Sandy Island
  10. Google Maps 8-bit NES style

As you can see, some stories were serious, some were silly, and many of them could be contenders to be the top story of 2013, too! So, what do you think is the biggest geospatial story of this year? Remember to vote before December 17!

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping, Networks | 1 Response

#geowebchat transcript 3 December 2013: geoweb tribes redux

@mappingmashups Nov 30, 7:06am Next #geowebchat: “geoweb tribes”. Is it #geoweb or #cybergis? #neogeography or #neocartography? It’s sharks vs jets, Dec 3 12pm PT! Pls RT!

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 02, 12:33am @mappingmashups Would you mind providing background context to tomorrow’s #geowebchat?

@mappingmashups Dec 02, 7:52am @CostanzaAsnaghi For #geowebchat context, try these transcripts: mappingmashups.net/2012/03/06/geo…, mappingmashups.net/2013/06/18/geo…, & mappingmashups.net/2011/07/31/geo…

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 10:12am Today on #geowebchat, 12pm PT: discussing turf battles between geoweb, cybergis, neogeography, neocartography & more: mappingmashups.net/2013/12/01/nex…

@neogeografen Dec 03, 10:18am kl 21:00 er der webchat #geowebchat – i dag om defintioner – ” neogeographer, neocartographer, GIS 2, Map 2″ osv mappingmashups.net/2013/12/01/nex…

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 10:30am For context in today’s #geowebchat , see the #AAG panel session proposal we submitted: Battle of the Tribes. ow.ly/rpDCn

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 11:35am Michael Jones’ final paragraph in this interview could feed an entirely different #geowebchat geospatialworld.net/Interview/View… Maybe later.

@re_sieber Dec 03, 11:39am 20 minutes to #geowebchat: what tribe are you? geoweber, cybergiser, neogeographer, neocartographer, GIScientist? Maybe you’re anti-tribe.

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 11:56am Everyone following #geowebchat, context here: “mappingmashups.net/2012/03/06/geo…, mappingmashups.net/2013/06/18/geo…, & mappingmashups.net/2011/07/31/geo…” @mappingmashups

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 11:59am Welcome to today’s #cyberGISchat, no, #neogeographyChat, no, #geowebchat . The deck is stacked at the outset. :)

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:01pm Hi everyone, today’s #geowebchat will be guided by @michael_d_gould & @re_sieber. We’re talking about geoweb “tribes” mappingmashups.net/2013/12/01/nex…

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:01pm The Battle of the Tribes idea stems from a proto-debate started at AAG Los Angeles. #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:02pm Thanks @mappingmashups for organizing the #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:02pm Hello everyone, I’m a GIScientist. That’s where current academic legitimacy is. Tribe based on what gets you ahead #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:02pm Thanks @michael_d_gould for hosting and @mappingmashups for organizing! #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:03pm @re_sieber was tossing critical comments over the wall during one of many #cyberGIS AAG panel sessions. I was a panelist. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:03pm GIScience is not where the fun is, though #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:04pm @re_sieber agreed. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:04pm Not that I define myself as a cyberGISer. But the topic was teaching the stuff. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:05pm I would define myself as a geographer, not as a GIScience or cyberGISer. I am not what I teach. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:05pm FYI Today’s #geowebchat is a teaser for @michael_d_gould & @re_sieber’s #AAG2014 panel w/ @geographiliac @ajturner @swuiuc & Sara Fabrikant

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:05pm I was also trained as a GI Scientist, before the more famous MG coined the term. #geowebchat Then I moved to Spain and got practical :(

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:06pm @geographiliac But are you also not what you research? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:07pm when I moved to an IT department I started talking “geospatial technologies”. Whatever gets you funded?. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:07pm @michael_d_gould there’s a more famous MG ?? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:07pm @mappingmashups we all have nuances of research that blend with all aspects of our lives. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:08pm @geographiliac My job was GIS applications in environment. I had to bld my bona fides to join #GIScience tribe. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:08pm also, I technically teach in a “GeoSpatial Studies” program, and not in Geography, technology, GIS, etc… #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:09pm @geographiliac is your nuanced mix in the UNESCO scientific category list? #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:09pm I’m a cartozygon…morph into most of so-called tribes depending on circumstances #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:10pm @geographiliac My background is in #PPGIS. Uphill battle to gain legitimay for public particip GIS in #GIScience tribe #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:10pm @michael_d_gould is there a list? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:11pm @re_sieber and I thank you for fighting that battle!!!! #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:11pm Is #neogeography still alive? if not, what comes after neo? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:11pm @re_sieber As a member of the #PPGIS tribe, do you disavow #PGIS? Some tribal battles never get settled, ppl just move on. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:11pm You are what you are. Education. Experience. Context. Employment. Opinions. Tribal distinction is uneccesarily divisive #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:11pm @michael_d_gould @geographiliac @re_sieber belonging to a tribe builds identity – key in academia and industry? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:11pm @kennethfield Cartozygote? Cartocylon? Cartotrope? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:12pm I appreciate the path @michael_d_gould @re_sieberhave paved for those of us that integrate critical thought and GIS #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:12pm @geographiliac here are the UNESCO 6-digit codes. Do you exist? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:13pm @mappingmashups Yes, some internecine tribal battles, like #ppgis v #pgis never die #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:13pm @michael_d_gould My problem with #neogeography isn’t that it implies a #paleo, just that calling anything “neo” is bad idea. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:13pm Are we all ‘special snowflakes’? Makes it challenging to compare for job hire, funding decisions without a category to excel in #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:14pm @michael_d_gould Nothing stays new forever. We need terms that actually describe what something is. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:14pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups only because the stakes are so low? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:14pm @mappingmashups But when you’ve got something cool and new, neo sounds great for a while! #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:15pm good point–if we are now “neo-geography” what do we call the next “neo-”? #geowebchat

@ajturner Dec 03, 12:15pm @mappingmashups you mean like neoclassical, neonatal, neocon, neolithic, neoprene, neon? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:15pm Also @agaleszczynski makes great points about why the “neo” label serves certain ppls interests tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.108… #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:15pm @geographiliac neo-neo? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:15pm I teach a class called ‘computer cartography’. How old school is that? Changed it to ‘principles of GIScience’. Good move? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:15pm @mappingmashups @michael_d_gould Tell that to “Modern Dance” and “Contemporary Art” Not that those make much sense now. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:16pm @peterajohnson @michael_d_gould @geographiliac tribes is what they is. Place @ the table, whether VCs, journals, or grants #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:16pm the UNESCO codes : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-digit_U… #geowebchat Do you exist?

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:16pm @peterajohnson I teach a class on “print cartography”… I am not sure why. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:16pm @geographiliac or what was neo- becomes retro-neo? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:16pm @vtcraghead No, I think people realized their mistake with “modern” and have managed to keep “contemporary”‘s true meaning #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:17pm @michael_d_gould 5499 #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:17pm @geographiliac I’m assuming there is no digital cartography class offered the following semester? ;) #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:17pm @peterajohnson just “advanced cartography” #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:18pm Print cartography? nice, you guys are making me feel neo. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:18pm Remember hearing @ one of Where 2.0′s, old guard #geowankers complaining ab new crowd #geowebchat

@dbouwman Dec 03, 12:18pm @ajturner when I first made maps, some would have accused me of being into “geo-neon” #notacartographer #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:18pm @michael_d_gould but it’s a question–what does “neo-geo-web” replace in the geography curriculum? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:19pm @geographiliac If you’re 5499 “other geographical specialities” can we have “neo-other geographical specialties”? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:19pm @geographiliac @michael_d_gould I’m sure “other” gets thrown in the granting agency trash. Or reviewed by interns #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:19pm is neogeography or geoweb “GIS”? It seems more critical than just GIS. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:19pm I remember rubylith, scribe coat, and zip-a-tone. Makes me appreciate digital (neo-) mapping. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:19pm @geographiliac nice to meet you 5499. I’m 3399 #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:20pm and if GIS, which is broadly accepted has no UNESCO class, how can we expect specializations to have one? #geowebchat

@dillonm Dec 03, 12:20pm Love this RT @geographiliac: @peterajohnson I teach a class on “print cartography”… I am not sure why. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:20pm @mikehyslop @geographiliac I wanted to be the 1st retro-neogeographer but @ajturner, @RichGibson have me beat #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:20pm @geographiliac How is GIS by definition not critical? could be, or not. depends on who. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:20pm @michael_d_gould I’m also 5404–regional geography of the internet. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:21pm A map is a map is a map. Mode of production & tech change gives rise to tribal tendencies & new players like being ‘different’ #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:21pm I believe I am 5703. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:22pm agreed – it’s difficult to pick just ONE UNESCO category. Must research. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:22pm @geographiliac neogeography, geoweb is more critical than GIS only in geography. NOT in industry or other academic disciplines #geowebchat

@rastrau Dec 03, 12:22pm .@kennethfield what we put on maps or what we consider mappable has changed, though, no? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:22pm Cyber infrastructure, and by association, cyberGIS, is getting attention ($$) from NSF. Discuss. #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:23pm @kennethfield I don’t agree with that. A map is not just a map. It really depends on what it was meant for. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:23pm @re_sieber is industry particularly critical? #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:24pm .@rastrau I don’t think its changed as much as some would like you to believe #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:24pm @kennethfield I find myself rarely using the word map in my day to day work. #geowebchat

@PetersonGIS Dec 03, 12:24pm I’m loving Special Snowflake. cc @peterajohnson #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 03, 12:24pm @michael_d_gould hey, if you can hop on that bandwagon, why not? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:24pm @michael_d_gould also a few job ads mention cyberGIS rather than one of the terms we would prefer to classify ourselves as #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:24pm @michael_d_gould there’s a reason for that ;-) #geowebchat

@ajturner Dec 03, 12:25pm @rastrau actually, I think we’ve gone back to what we used to map. personal narratives slideshare.net/ajturner/libra… @kennethfield #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:25pm @michael_d_gould #cyberGIS, outgrowth of another NSF catogory #cyberinfrastructure is receiving millions of research funds #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:26pm @ajturner wouldn’t that imply this isn’t something new… or neo? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:26pm @peterajohnson so is it You are what you research, or You are what’s being funded? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:27pm @geographiliac Many professions are reflective, in that they develop best practices, ethics #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:27pm @michael_d_gould @peterajohnson I think you are what you research, but you may or may not be funded… #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:27pm @michael_d_gould @peterajohnson and what you research is often what IS being funded. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:28pm @kennethfield isn’t a map just a casual graphical viz of a subset of spatial database? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:29pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield That’s exactly how ol’ Gerardus would have put it :) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:30pm @re_sieber Many engineering fields and GISP have ethical components to their prof programs. does that make them critical? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:30pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber I don’t think ethics and critiques are the same. #geowebchat

@SWolfinbarger Dec 03, 12:30pm I’m a GIScientist/practitioner. I agree w @peterajohnson that it’s easy to bc a ‘special snowflake’ & hard to employ! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:31pm Most neo-mapping is a reinvention of some paleo-stuff just in different clothes. Fashions change. You just gotta roll with it #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:31pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield Map as output of db argument doesn’t work w funding agencies & my colleagues. Map still powerful #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:31pm @re_sieber you had a good critical point at AAG2013 about what is being taught to (some) undergrads in GIS class. remember? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:33pm @geographiliac @michael_d_gould Yes, ethics & critiques arent same but they are good start for industry #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:34pm @michael_d_gould casual graphical viz? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:34pm @kennethfield you’re thinking of those Cindy Lauper remakes of Stones and Dylan hits, right? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:35pm @michael_d_gould Hm, I slag off so much of my discipline (including what I myself do), I kind of forget my own critiques! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:35pm @michael_d_gould you’re in danger of straying quite some way from #geowebchat into #sadchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:35pm @kennethfield happenstance ;) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:37pm @re_sieber I also forget the details so I will bait you no more. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:38pm so think back to the paleo definition of GIS, and tell us what the new stuff does that’s, er, new. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:40pm @geographiliac, @peterajohnson interesting that teaching lags so far behind what’s considered hot in funding circles #geowebchat

@ajturner Dec 03, 12:40pm Names are a container to reference multi-faceted concepts. neologisms are a tool to conceive reformulation of those concepts #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:41pm @michael_d_gould Engage the lay public? :) #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:41pm There’s nothing particularly new. Only the delivery of maps/geospatial data has increased in volume, velocity, and distribution. #geowebchat

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:41pm @michael_d_gould I’m not sure it’s the what that’s new, but how, e.g., web processing & content delivery #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:42pm The basic functions of geo remains: navigation, visualization of spatial relations, and data creation #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:42pm not just the delivery, but the creation and dissemination…crowdsourced, participatory, mobile, democratizing, sharable, etc. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:42pm @michael_d_gould cyber focuses on architectre; geoweb on cloud, viz; GIS on algorithms &db. Neogeo focuses on disdain for paleo? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:43pm It’s the same old thing on a new platform… hence geoweb is an appropriate name. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:43pm @ajturner I’m using that in my next grant application. Not. ;-) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:43pm @vtcraghead so one could say that GIS now engages the lay public. How to define where old ends and new starts? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:43pm As my remote sensing prof said, “We’re either lumpers or splitters.” #geowebchat

@kennethfield Dec 03, 12:44pm I wrote a blog on fallacy of new cartography a while ago. offers my perspective …save for post #geowebchat cartonerd.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-fa…

@mikehyslop Dec 03, 12:45pm @spara lumping & splitting applies to any discipline where you need to categorize… #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:45pm @re_sieber or did #geoweb swipe things from neogeography’s garage while it was on holiday? #geowebchat

@mapserving Dec 03, 12:45pm @spara hey I thought I was the only one with actual geo training these days lol. #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:46pm How can we incorporate new tech to finally give voice to white men on the internet? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:46pm @mikehyslop This discussion splits hairs centered around technique. I’d rather lump and move on. #geowebchat

@eknalprev Dec 03, 12:46pm #geowebchat isn’t it becoming more and more about low and high end use of Geo that separates users?

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:46pm @spara Maybe maps are either lumpers or splitters, too. John Krygier: “Are Maps Autistic?” ubikcan.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/kry… #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:47pm What can the geoweb teach us about racial bias among and between different cat breeds? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:47pm @michael_d_gould @ajturner #geowankers originated term geoweb. Don’t know if it’s a separate tribe from #neogeography #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Dec 03, 12:48pm @michael_d_gould I would have called it a generational thing, but the tech timescale has compressed everything. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:48pm @re_sieber #Geoweb is somewhat different from #neogeography, but I see it mostly as an academic-friendly rebranding of neogeo #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:48pm @re_sieber talk about a tribe name to help in your grant proposal! #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:49pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber I thought the privilege of being an academic was deciding what to name things. #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:49pm Are you part of the #georatti ? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:50pm @geographiliac @re_sieber But it’s the privilege of the non-academics to completely ignore us. :) #geoweb has not caught on. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:50pm @geographiliac well said, 5499 #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:50pm @mappingmashups but how many people are watching #geowebchat?

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:51pm All the industry people I work with know that what they do is not #GIS, but they don’t call it #geoweb either. It’s just #geo. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:52pm @mappingmashups Geoweb could certainly use a rigorous definition. Or did I miss that conference paper? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:52pm @geographiliac @mappingmashups There’s probably a correlation between lunch and #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:52pm @spara @mappingmashups only for those of us on the west coast! #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:52pm are any neo-geo-webbers participating in the CartoDB webinar? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:54pm @re_sieber Maybe. I’d also attribute to less neogeo outfits like Galdos. Today @MapBox, @cartoDB etc wouldn’t say #geoweb. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Dec 03, 12:54pm @geographiliac I am. :) #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Dec 03, 12:54pm @geographiliac I am, too! #geowebchat

@jimmyrocks Dec 03, 12:54pm Are mobile apps still considered geo”web” even if they don’t use anything coming over http? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 12:54pm @mappingmashups @geographiliac Do the @stamen ppl consider themselves a tribe? Do they hold the mantle of true geography? #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 12:55pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups I thought of @stamen as neo-cartographers…. #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:56pm If neogeography is the way forward, can we keep a paleogeography for those who long for a simpler time? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:56pm @re_sieber good question. Our AAG panel assumes most people in the room will be geographers. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:56pm @re_sieber @geographiliac I think @stamen, @MapBox, @cartoDB, etc maybe see themselves as a “#geo” tribe. But not “geographers” #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:56pm @geographiliac @re_sieber @mappingmashups @stamen Is @MapBox a tribe as well? How about @cartoDB tribe? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:57pm @geographiliac @re_sieber I still don’t know what to do with “#neocartography”. But why not? #geowebchat

@simonchabel Dec 03, 12:58pm Will the neogeoweb finally bring stalking to the masses? #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 12:58pm @simonchabel Already has #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 12:58pm There’s definitely a #geobeers #geobreakfast #geomeetup #geoHH #geomob tribe. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 12:59pm @re_sieber in Tampa (panel session) should we have a giant whiteboard and have attendees draw venn diagrams? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:00pm @jimmyrocks I definitely include mobile apps as part of the geo “web” of data. I like that “web” can be a broad term #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 1:00pm @mappingmashups #geobeers , something we can all agree on! What a fitting near ending of this #geowebchat

@spara Dec 03, 1:00pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber Whiteboard? Please, it should be done collaboratively online using d3 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:00pm .@eknalprev I think most of the tribal talk is where one is in rung in the geo app/software user/developer ladder #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:02pm @spara @michael_d_gould d3 likely outside experience of many attendees @ our #AAG2014 panel on geo tribes #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:02pm When is the @cartoDB thing happening? cartodb.com/academy #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 1:02pm @mappingmashups @cartoDB now. #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 1:02pm @mappingmashups cartodb.com/academy #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:03pm As @michael_d_gould points out, we are wrapping up today’s #geowebchat. Feel free to keep chatting, though. Transcript will follow soon.

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:03pm .@geographiliac @mappingmashups I retain the academic privilege to decide what to name things, no matter how irrelevant #geowebchat

@geographiliac Dec 03, 1:03pm Thanks for organizing @re_sieber, @michael_d_gould and @mappingmashups !!! #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Dec 03, 1:04pm @re_sieber I think it’s more what your background was. To a first approximation: Were you a dev or a GIS person first? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:05pm Fun #geowebchat today battling over which geo tribes are in, out, relevant or not

@michael_d_gould Dec 03, 1:05pm Thanks everybody. More fun, live, in Tampa next April @aag. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 03, 1:06pm I love it! #geowebchat RT @nelson: @mappingmashups I’m partial to the phrase “#nogis”, but it’s mildly insulting.

@re_sieber Dec 03, 1:07pm @nixzusehen I was a developer b4 I returned to university. But my tech in university was mostly GIS. #geowebchat

@enf Dec 03, 1:11pm @nelson @mappingmashups Reminding me of @migurski’s excellent #nogis presentation from a few years ago: mike.teczno.com/notes/nogis-sl… #geowebchat

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