#geowebchat transcript: 4 February 2014: discussion about #opendata


@mappingmashups Feb 04, 9:28am Today (Tue Feb 4) on #geowebchat: @geothinkca hosts a discussion on #opendata. More info here: mappingmashups.net/2014/01/30/nex…

@rastrau Feb 04, 11:31am Maybe sth for @odi @OpenDataZurich and @sfkeller: mappingmashups.net/2014/01/30/nex… It’s on in 30 mins. #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 11:38am @rastrau @OpenDataZurich @sfkeller thanks for this pointer, looks kind of like “my” topic :) #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:00pm Welcome everyone to the #geowebchat on #opendata

@mappingmashups Feb 04, 12:00pm Hello everyone, welcome to another #geowebchat. Today @geothinkca will be guest-hosting a chat about #opendata: mappingmashups.net/2014/01/30/nex…

@mappingmashups Feb 04, 12:01pm As always, if you want to join the conversation, just follow the #geowebchat hashtag, and make sure you include it in all your tweets.

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:01pm Welcome to our first guest hosting of #geowebchat. Today’s topic is Open Data. More infor here: geothink.ca/?p=1248

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:02pm #Opendata: data shud b freely available 2 everyone to use, repub as they wish, wo restrictions frm copyright, patents or control #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:02pm Quick thanks to all of you joining us for #geowebchat today and @mappingmashups for letting us host!

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:02pm We’d like to hear all your inputs on Open Data – in terms of access/ usability/quality/impact/issues for the #geoweb / #opendata #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:03pm Any new tweeters today on #geowebchat for #opendata?

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:03pm @re_sieber obviously this depends…on what data mostly. #geowebchat

@SamuelLeach Feb 04, 12:03pm #geowebchat on #opendata just kicking off now.

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:05pm .@peterajohnson Does data qualify as #opendata if it’s somehow restricted, eg by license? #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Feb 04, 12:05pm #opendata isn’t a panacea, esp. w/ civic data & local govt, there needs to easy case uses for it, local ecosystem for it. #geowebchat.

@odi Feb 04, 12:05pm @re_sieber yes here #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:06pm Hopefully we have a good mix of #geowebchat veterans and newcomers ~ feel free to say hello to everyone and as things start #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:06pm @re_sieber can be very good reasons for restrictions (like share alike is a restriction that is very common) #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:07pm @skorasaurus We know from our work w local gov that they frequently need researchers, hackers to provide use case #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:07pm @skorasaurus good point – providing #opendata is just step 1, really. Generating long term value is hard. #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:08pm @re_sieber @skorasaurus Touches nicely on “why do we want?” #opendata #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:08pm .@skorasaurus Like to believe local ecosystem is nec for #opendata but I wonder if Googles, lg firms supercede need for local #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:08pm @odi Welcome to #geowebchat!

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:09pm I’d like to hear tweeters’ ideas ab how to value #opendata. Indeed, what is the value of #opendata? #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:09pm @peterajohnson is right, share alike restricts agency’s ability to reuse open data (pub domain is standard) #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:09pm It’s really sad we still have to “sell” Open Data to the govt. It has value in itself! #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Feb 04, 12:09pm should data be provided for the layman/everyone, or targeted towards skilled users? #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:10pm @odi @skorasaurus If Open Data isn’t cure-all but has value – in what ways? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:10pm .@USGSTNMRes @peterajohnson Can you give example in 140 characters of how share-alike restricts agency reuse? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:10pm @odi what about when open data is considered ‘done’ by gov? Box ticked, time to move on. Without evidence of value, why support? #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Feb 04, 12:11pm @re_sieber value of #opendata helps you learn how your govt is working, although sometimes data needs context. #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:11pm @peterajohnson @odi perhaps what is going on here? thomaslevine.com/!/data-catalog… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:12pm .@odi Data for its own sake is new concept to gov. Data used to be a means to decision making. Not monetizable, reusable #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:12pm @sidewalkballet it should be provided as-is, so this might target skilled users. Those can then condense the data for everybody #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:13pm @sidewalkballet So does #opendata have value only to those who have skills to use it? #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:13pm @re_sieber @peterajohnson USGS can’t use OSM because all data we publish must be pub domain–can’t do CCSA #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:14pm @USGSTNMRes this is really interesting. I suspect that share alike will keep municipal gov from adopting #OSM for many uses #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Feb 04, 12:14pm @geothinkca primarily, but that value is extended to those who use whatever is built with the data #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:14pm What does concept of transparency in #opendata mean? Transparency 4 data as end in itself or transparency of democracy? Not same #geowebchat

@rastrau Feb 04, 12:15pm .@geothinkca Shouldn’t. Need to make sure questions that get asked can come from everybody not just eg programmers #geowebchat #inclusion

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:15pm @USGSTNMRes I was looking at #osm license and trying to figure if municipal gov internal use would need to share alike #geowebchat y/n?

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:16pm @SamuelLeach @USGSTNMRes I think for internal use, gov could use #osm with own data and not share alike wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/License/U… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:17pm @odi @sidewalkballet strong role for private sector, community groups as intermediaries between citizens and #opendata #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:17pm @rastrau Agreed – so Palo Alto’s use of fushion tables provide the non-expert mean to view open data #geowebchat is that #inclusion?

@odi Feb 04, 12:17pm @peterajohnson I think you can’t measure it. We should work towards “open by default”, then there is no “done with Open Data” #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:17pm @peterajohnson if you don’t publish in any form then maybe not? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:19pm @USGSTNMRes that’s my understanding…but I’m not a lawyer (not even on TV). #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:19pm Great points so far #geowebchat on- Value for experts or Everyone? Share-alike license and limits to adoption by local auth.!

@pdxmele Feb 04, 12:19pm Good discussion going on right now about open data on #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:20pm @peterajohnson @odi @sidewalkballet So #opendata should be transparent in its value to intermediaries but not nec to citizens? #geowebchat

@rastrau Feb 04, 12:20pm @geothinkca Guess it’s an option. Maybe not ‘best’ wrt openness. *Diversity of (ideally open) tools and most basic formats key #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:21pm @peterajohnson @sidewalkballet I agree, this is a new power, a field that previously only the media was active #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:21pm @odi would definitely help with horizontal sharing between levels of gov, regardless of any private sector/citizen benefit #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:21pm @peterajohnson @odi @sidewalkballet We can easily create a situation in which #opendata only/mostly has value for entrepreneurs #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:22pm @re_sieber don’t think opendata will ever be as transparent to citizens as we wish #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:22pm @re_sieber um, no. Just that (like anything) value will be realized by different actors in different ways. Tough to generalize #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:22pm @rastrau which is a problem (i.e., formats for the data) – A CSV isn’t useful for someone that doesn’t know how to open it #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:23pm @USGSTNMRes @re_sieber What’s the motivation to make potentially damaging #opendata? Perhaps shelves efforts right away? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:24pm .@mpmckenna8 @skorasaurus #Metadata for #opendata! Otherwise, how can we judge eg, why some things are so expensive? #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Feb 04, 12:24pm @geothinkca @rastrau csv’s a problem, yet some comfort in the credibility of data when it’s open, even if no citizens use it #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:24pm @re_sieber No, for me value != money, of course companys can make money, but still citizens can profit from the data #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:24pm @re_sieber just like how roads only have benefits for those who have cars? ;) #geowebchat Think a bit more broadly here…

@sidewalkballet Feb 04, 12:24pm @re_sieber @peterajohnson @odi I’m not so quick to leave the citizens out though. can be used as a learning tool #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:25pm @USGSTNMRes @re_sieber agreed – just like our current system of municipal bylaws and regulations is probably quite opaque #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Feb 04, 12:26pm @re_sieber @mpmckenna8 @skorasaurus need metadata to minimize uncertainty (of all kinds) #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:26pm @USGSTNMRes @re_sieber I think it is a mistake to require every piece of government work to be immediately consumable by anyone #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:26pm @sidewalkballet @re_sieber @mpmckenna8 @skorasaurus but who makes metadata anymore? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:27pm @peterajohnson We could easily create a world of #opendata that only serves data to lg firms like Google, schema like GTFS #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 Feb 04, 12:27pm @re_sieber @skorasaurus Especially for geo data. I’ve gotten rasters of tourism values from @sfmta_muni w/ no metadata+process. #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:27pm @sidewalkballet exactly! One of the goals of Open Government Data is to learn how the gov works, see relations etc. #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:28pm @geothinkca what do you mean by potentially damaging? we def have restrictions on personal info. cld write treatise #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:29pm @re_sieber we already live in a world where government develops services to different sectors. Why shouldn’t open data be G2B? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:30pm @peterajohnson @USGSTNMRes “mistake to req every bit of gov work to be immediately consumable by anyone” Them’s fightin’ words #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:30pm @USGSTNMRes from spatial data to budgets – often a resistance to ‘open’ comes from a fear of consequence #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:31pm @re_sieber @USGSTNMRes Ok, let me rephrase that last part ‘to be intelligible by anyone’. Availability – ok. #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:31pm @USGSTNMRes privacy is also a huge concern but determing what should and shouldn’t be private not always clear across the board #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:32pm @geothinkca ah metadata. topic for another #geowebchat OR related to opengeodata?????

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:32pm @geothinkca agree! again topic for treatise, not 140 characters #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:33pm @bgrassbluecrab @rastrau @peterajohnson having it accessible is comforting and valuable in its appearance of transparency? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:33pm .@peterajohnson Gov’s frequently prevented from over involvemt in biz activities, seen as competitors. More so in US than Canada #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:33pm @re_sieber and there is a fine line between accessibility of information and over scrutiny of minutiae #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:33pm @geothinkca again, totally agree #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag Feb 04, 12:34pm @USGSTNMRes .@geothinkca Metadata is more important than data #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:34pm @re_sieber don’t tell the TARP program that…#geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:34pm @USGSTNMRes perhaps both! uncertainty in OpenData/VGI/Authoritative Data alike- metadata and format common issue #geowebchat

@bgrassbluecrab Feb 04, 12:35pm @geothinkca @rastrau @peterajohnson #geowebchat comfort comes from trust that someone w/ stats skills could investigate

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:35pm @Brobdingnag @USGSTNMRes but doesn’t explain why most produsers don’t create it. #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:35pm @peterajohnson why should G2B be different than G2C? All I want is an API and machine readable data #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag Feb 04, 12:35pm @USGSTNMRes @geothinkca Topic for another #geowebchat I think

@rob_giggey Feb 04, 12:35pm @sidewalkballet w/ restricted resources I think u focus on the skilled users first & then to the layman. datalibre.ca/2013/09/25/mas… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:36pm @odi exactly! But @re_sieber would argue that an API excludes citizens and plays into corporate hands #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:36pm @Brobdingnag @geothinkca can definitely be more important! #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:37pm @odi @peterajohnson because most of the C’s cant make use of it #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:37pm @peterajohnson @odi APIs exclude most lay citzens. (can’t type 140 characters fast enough) #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:38pm @re_sieber @peterajohnson @odi but most API’s come from the intermediates Open Data source portals offer limited access anyways #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag Feb 04, 12:38pm @geothinkca @USGSTNMRes Yeah, I was always taught to create metadata, but the keyword there is taught #elitism #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:38pm @USGSTNMRes @odi should gov act as #opendata provider and translator to citizens? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:39pm Challenge is that citizens demand understanding of gov & #opendata implies comprehension #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:40pm @Brobdingnag @USGSTNMRes begs the question of what good is metadata if you have no use for the data?Its up to the citizen/other? #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:41pm @peterajohnson @re_sieber but most OD is raw data, that can’t be processed by common citizen. We need to provide tools for them #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:41pm @peterajohnson @odi Dont know what its like in CA, but in US, we don’t like taxes! So how to fund this new role? #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:41pm Quick recap: Transparency is evident if the data is there? Use of the data restricted by access? Citizen Value in OpenData..is? #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:41pm @peterajohnson @re_sieber and with we, I mean the community, everyone! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:42pm We’ve been discussing #opendata from gov. But data can come from citizens too wired.com/magazine/2010/… #geowebchat What are issues?

@sidewalkballet Feb 04, 12:42pm @odi @peterajohnson @re_sieber can’t be processed, and/or don’t know what to use it for. maybe examples of use would benefit #geowebchat

@eknalprev Feb 04, 12:43pm @re_sieber citizens demand and they expect to understand. There’s the difference #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:43pm @USGSTNMRes @peterajohnson there is no free lunch! #taxes #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:43pm .@odi @peterajohnson #Opendata is not more raw now that it comes in digital form. Long history of citizens pouring over reports #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:43pm @re_sieber u would not believe hoops we have to jump thru to accept data from citizens #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:43pm @odi agreed – intermediaries are critical. Reminds me of the golden age of investigative journalism #geowebchat

@acolt Feb 04, 12:44pm Folks, what’s your main go-to #opendata portal for geo-data? I can list OSM, Natural Earth (naturalearthdata.com), others? #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:44pm @re_sieber @odi @peterajohnson So machine readable is the value in ‘today’s’ open data? #geowebchat Even if you can’t use the machine?

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:44pm @odi @peterajohnson exactly #taxes #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:44pm @odi @USGSTNMRes or outsource it to the non-profits or let corporations take over…realities are fairly obvious #geowebchat

@geovis_isprs Feb 04, 12:45pm #geowebchat on #opendata happening now, join in!

@rastrau Feb 04, 12:45pm @USGSTNMRes @peterajohnson @odi Some people and reports would emphasise the macroeconomic effects of OD > revenues > taxes #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 12:45pm Just like people wrote web browsers to make the web compr., we should create tools and educate people about OpenData #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:46pm RT @geothinkca: @acolt links to many others index.okfn.org #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:46pm RT @geothinkca: @acolt geoweb.dnv.org/data/ #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:46pm @geothinkca @odi @peterajohnson Machine readable, generalizable=currency of #opendata. Transpar to entrepreneur; not nec citizen #geowebchat

@rob_giggey Feb 04, 12:46pm uOttawa Library’s #opendata day event: #hackUObiblio biblio.uottawa.ca/html/Page?node… #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Feb 04, 12:47pm @acolt found this resource once. Maybe not all “open” freegisdata.rtwilson.com #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:47pm @odi Yes. Educating ppl ab #opendata in many ways identical to educating ppl ab gov #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:49pm @re_sieber @odi and the process of education requires intermediaries…;) #geowebchat Can’t expect everyone to pick this stuff up without help

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:49pm @re_sieber @odi Huge efforts already underway? ie @geothinkca @OKFN etc. etc. #geowebchat – How are they engaging citizens? Gov’ and NGO

@odi Feb 04, 12:51pm @geothinkca to be able to dig in the raw data, is the value. It’s the same with OSS, I can use it wo understanding the code. #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:51pm 10 minutes left with today’s #geowebchat ! Civic engagement with #opendata Responsibilities of usability/accessability!

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:51pm @rastrau @USGSTNMRes @peterajohnson @odi “macroecon effects of #opendata” See sim argumt @ lower levels of gov but harder 2track #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Feb 04, 12:53pm Have to run, but great #geowebchat looking forwards to the continued evolution of #opendata questions of value, adoption, evaluation!

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:53pm @re_sieber @rastrau @peterajohnson @odi fortunately don’t know what macroecon means! ;) #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:53pm @geothinkca There should be a code of ethics for #opendata. 1. Don’t misrepresent original intent of data #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:53pm @peterajohnson Thanks for joining in! #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes Feb 04, 12:54pm Gotta go…good questions/issues thx #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:54pm @USGSTNMRes @rastrau @peterajohnson @odi macroeconomic, like #opendata will create 10000 new silicon valley type jobs #geowebchat

@rob_giggey Feb 04, 12:55pm if there’s any @opendataottawa folks online/interested there’s a #geowebchat going on right now.. #opendata.

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:55pm @re_sieber Which is transparency? Economic stimulus? Citizen empowerment? All the above plus some? #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:56pm Great discussions on today’s #geowebchat We have 5 min. left feel free to make your closing remarks!

@odi Feb 04, 12:56pm @geothinkca there are already tons of projects. Some events get a lot of attraction, this is where you actually _explain_ data #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:57pm @geothinkca Some techie types see transparency only as machine readable, generalizable (eg across cities). Stuff good for apps #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 12:58pm @odi agreed! and supporting those that work and making more like them seem like a much needed effort #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 12:59pm @geothinkca I’d argue for transparency for democracy. But there’s chasm btwn transparency as downloadable & transp as empowermt #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 1:01pm @re_sieber but having access to the ‘raw data’ on what is being done by your rep’s is empowering grassroots etc. KnowledgePower #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 1:01pm @geothinkca more thoughts about Open Data events are in my recent blog post: metaodi.ch/posts/2014/01/… #shamelessselfplug #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 1:02pm @geothinkca One thing we’ve discovered w tech, data is the Knowledge does not eq power (unless you already have power) #geowebchat

@geothinkca Feb 04, 1:02pm Ok everyone that was an exciting hour of #geowebchat today – I will close off by thanking you that joined and @mappingmashups for the spot

@geothinkca Feb 04, 1:03pm Don’t feel that the talk needs to end now – and if you couldn’t join #geowebchat today we will let you know when the transcript is posted

@re_sieber Feb 04, 1:03pm @odi @geothinkca great post, metaodi.ch/posts/2014/01/…. Will be interesting to hear @opennorth response #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Feb 04, 1:04pm Thanks @geothinkca for hosting today’s #geowebchat today, great job! Next chat will be in two weeks on Feb 18. Topic TBD.

@re_sieber Feb 04, 1:05pm thanks #geothinkca for getting #geowebchat ers to think ab #opendata. Hope to continue the conversation!

@sidewalkballet Feb 04, 1:05pm @geothinkca @mappingmashups thank ya thank ya lovely thinkin’ and chattin’ #opendata #geothink #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Feb 04, 1:06pm @re_sieber when would you like to host a #geowebchat about life logs?

@geothinkca Feb 04, 1:07pm @odi @re_sieber @opennorth only gotten a bit into it but certainly looks cross applicable #geowebchat

@re_sieber Feb 04, 1:08pm @mappingmashups Yes. Lifelogging: every meal you’ve eaten and every step you’ve walked #geowebchat

@Burchfie Feb 04, 1:09pm .@geothinkca @re_sieber Thanks for the #geowebchat today–was only able to lurk occasionally. Good discussion. Hope to chat more nxt time.

@geothinkca Feb 04, 1:10pm @sidewalkballet @odi @rob_giggey @rastrau and everyone else I couldn’t find the names for fast-enough Thanks for participating! #geowebchat

@odi Feb 04, 1:13pm @geothinkca thanks for hosting the #geowebchat Was a great experience, especially for me as a first-timer ;)

@geothinkca Feb 04, 1:15pm @odi great to have you and feel free to follow and #geowebchat @mappingmashups hosts some great topics here!

@odi Feb 04, 1:15pm @rastrau thanks again, this was really interesting! #geowebchat

@iaindillingham Feb 04, 2:11pm @acolt Global Administrative Areas gadm.org is my favourite #opendata #geowebchat

@opendataottawa Feb 04, 2:29pm Happens monthly on 1st & 3rd Tues @ 3 EST RT @rob_giggey: if there’s any folks online/interested there’s a #geowebchat going on right now

@mappingmashups Feb 04, 4:37pm RT @tranlib: Get ready for #opendataday with the Local Open Data Census from @OKFN blog.okfn.org/2014/02/04/ann… #opendata #geowebchat

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Next #geowebchat on #opendata hosted by @geothinkca, February 4, 2014

[Guest post by Matthew Tenney]

Hello All,

Please join us for the guest hosting of #geowebchat (Twitter) on Feb. 4th, 2014 at 3PM EST (12pm PST, 8pm GMT). The topics we hope to discuss “What do we want Open Data for?” – “Who are ‘we’?”, “Is Open Data better data? Or, even good data?”, and finally “What impacts can come from Open Data?” (i.e., Government, research programs, business practices and opportunities).

We have collected some easily consumable resources for you to get up to speed and outline our potential discussion topics below. Don’t feel that there is too much you have to go over and we aggregated the material here just for your convenience.

Generally, it is a free-formed discussion and is capable of taking turns whenever someone brings up an interesting point. It can be hard to get a complete thought out in 140 characters on a multi-threaded conversation, but hang in there – use the #geowebchat hashtag and don’t be afraid to reply to specific people.

We will start off by offering a few viable areas to get things going:

  1. Incentives for Open Data – Hackathons, grants, and sponsorships have been a primary tool to crowd-source the use of Open Data. Are these effective? What consequences can arise (both good and bad) from expecting the public to make use of Open Data? Are they targeted or invite equal participation?
  2. Data, Data, Data – There is a lot of data out there already. A lot of that data is already inherently spatial. But what does Open Data bring to the geoweb, ‘geo’ science, and mean for VGI? Do we have quality concerns? – is it the same as it was but now different than before?
  3. What will it change – Open Data is often tied to democratic ideals and government oversight. But, how does Open Data promote government oversight? Does all Open Data? Or, are there certain kinds of data that would be useful to have that are or are not available in Canada’s Open Data initiatives (get an idea for what is and isn’t available here: http://data.gc.ca/). You can get a more comprehensive list for other countries here: https://index.okfn.org/country/

Feel free to collect links to share with everyone if you have a specific topic you’d like to cover during the Open Data chat.

Look forward to reading your tweets on Open Data!

Cheers,

Geothink Canada

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#geowebchat transcript: 21 January, 2014: Where Next for the MSc in GIS?


@mappingmashups Jan 17, 1:00pm @claireellul how was the MSc in GIS event? Still into having a #geowebchat debrief on the 21st? cc @re_sieber @mhaklay @michael_d_gould

@claireellul Jan 20, 10:57am @mappingmashups That works for me … I’ll post the questions I asked now to give people time to think #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 20, 10:59am #geowebchat Q1 – what industries will employ GIS grads. in the next 5 years, and how much will they get paid?

@claireellul Jan 20, 10:59am #geowebchat Q2 What skills should GIS graduates have – soft skills, GIS theory, technical/applied skills

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:00am #geowebchat Q3 Is there still a need for an MSc in GIS as a general course, or should we be more specialized?

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:01am #geowebchat Q4 – how do we recruit bright students onto our MSc courses and into the profession?

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:01am #geowebchat Q5 – should it still be called GIS or are the GIS people ‘just the people who make the maps’?

@claireellul Jan 20, 11:41am Join me for the next #geowebchat – ‘Where Next for the MSc in GIS’ at 8pm UK time 21st January 2014

@mappingmashups Jan 20, 2:07pm New post: Next #geowebchat: Where Next for the MSc in GIS? January 21, 2014 bit.ly/Lxv9ro

@re_sieber Jan 20, 2:47pm We need more GIScientists for tmr’s #geowebchat Where Next for the MSc in GIS? 3pm EST @CarsonFarmer @carstenkessler bit.ly/Lxv9ro

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 5:59am Looking forward to today’s #geowebchat. Prospective grad student–trying to figure out what kind of program is best! mappingmashups.net/2014/01/20/nex…

@kennethfield Jan 21, 11:22am Given topic is the future of MSc in #GIS courses I may pop up on today’s #geowebchat w/ @mappingmashups @claireellul

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 12:01pm Starting now, @claireellul will be hosting #geowebchat about the future of the MSc in GIS. Some starting Qs: mappingmashups.net/2014/01/20/nex…

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:01pm @mappingmashups … ready to begin! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:01pm Need to clarify first that we’re talking about a Masters of Science in GIS. Are we also talking about GIScience? Or GIS #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:02pm @re_seiber our MSc is GI Science #geowebchat.

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:02pm Perhaps start with introductions #geowebchat? I’m Claire, academic at UCL in London, UK, formerly GIS consultant

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:03pm @re_sieber most masters are not called GIS per se. So how to filter them out? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:05pm @michael_d_gould In the UK we use the “MSc in GIS” term for our degrees (not only at UCL) … what is it called elsewhere? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:05pm Ifi it is a MSc in GIS the what does that mean? Software, specific software, spatial analysis&viz, geostats, data handling,apps? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:06pm @re_seiber … for us, all of the above – and not one specific package but at least 2 – QGIS, ArcGIS, Geomedia. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:06pm @michael_d_gould With all the new “data science” type grad degrees emerging, it’s hard to filter them out to find the spatial 1s #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 12:07pm #geowebchat my UBC masters was in Geography, not GIS/GIScience. Though I had some of that kind of experience taking GIS at Hunter College.

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:07pm @claireellul in USA many people (like myself) get a Master (of Sci or Arts) in Geography but its mostly GI/GIS. #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:08pm Diff b/w an MSci in GISystems or GIScience is key, latter implies more of a geographic backing, the former, technical comp sci #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:08pm #geowebchat. In the UK, 1-year (12 month) programme in GIS. 8 months taught, 4 months project.

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:08pm @mappingmashups where are the Hunter folks in this #geowebchat? @CarsonFarmer? @carstenkessler?

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:09pm @re_sieber I expect to see more degrees called data science e.g. geodata science in the near future. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:10pm @michael_d_gould #geowebchat – that mirrors the view from some of our industrial contacts in the UK . mv away from GIS and towards data sci.

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:10pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups @CarsonFarmer I’m here, hi everyone #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:10pm #geowebchat .. for new arrivals, we’re answering #q3 and #q5 – what to teach and what to call the programme …

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:11pm .@michael_d_gould @claireellul Ryerson has Masters (of Arts) in Spatial Analysis ryerson.ca/graduate/progr… #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:11pm My #geowebchat intro: Ex-academic. 20yrs in UK uni education. Designed and delivered a number of MSc in GIS courses.

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:11pm @claireellul our EU funded Master went for “geospatial technologies” (marketing) mastergeotech.info #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:11pm #geowebchat at ITC in NL we offer a MSc in GIS and Remote Sensing 2 year programme crammed in 18 months

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:11pm I’m just lurking. #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:12pm Looking into grad programs and concerned with what’s more employable. Seems GISystems gives more marketable skills vs science #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:12pm .@carstenkessler @mappingmashups @CarsonFarmer What will Hunter call/teach in its new Masters of GIS? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:12pm #geowebchat @ucl we offer MSc in GIS, and also MSc in spatio-temporal/big data analytics and also MSc in Geomatics for BIM ..

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:13pm #geowebchat got to include some kind of programming, most GIS jobs ask for it now. Cud mean that a geo person misses out2 programmer

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:13pm #geowebchat – in the UK the title ‘MSc in GIS’ is still the most recognized by employers .. (has been around for close to 30 years)

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:13pm MSc GIS courses we ran at Kingston Uni balance of theory/practice. Clear demand fr employers but often wanted grads ‘trained’ #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:14pm #geowebchat .. a bit of a newbie to running this, but perhaps lets spend 5 mins more on ‘what course title’? then move onto the other stuff?

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:14pm .@sidewalkballet Interesting. In MSc GIS, should we teach marketable skills or durable skills or no skills at all? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:15pm speaking of data-centric courses/studies: coursera.org/course/compdata #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:16pm @claireellul #geowebchat our new GIS MSc will probably be named “designing the Future”

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:16pm Kingston MSc included programming though students hated it (like maths!)…also unattractive to potential students #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:16pm @claireellul you (UCL) are VERY fortunate to have such an offering!! kudos. #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:16pm .@re_sieber I think there’s a place for a skills/science theory mix, if people want how-to there are tech post grad programs #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:16pm @re_sieber though unsure the diff btwn marketable and durable skills #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:17pm @claireellul ‘What course title?’ I would wage that most employers would understand “spatial” #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:17pm #geowebchat @re_sieber – teach theoretical background + marketable skills. i.e. not MSc in GI Systems (can go to vendors for that) …

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:17pm @claireellul Wow @ucl offers”MSc in GIS, MSc in spatio-temporal/big data analytics and MSc in Geomatics” Diversity or dilution? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:18pm #geowebchat @re_sieber – specialization! Do we still need the general course?

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:18pm @re_sieber @sidewalkballet most students want a job at the end so it’s not right not to teach durable & marketable skills #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:18pm @kennethfield programming may be difficult to swallow for non-tech students, but it’s a *way of thinking* that they need. #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:18pm @kennethfield Any GIScience degree should contain a good share of programming. Should not be “MSc in using (Arc)GIS” #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:19pm @michael_d_gould agreed, it’s a question of packaging the right mix of theory/skills into something palatable for recruitment #geowebchat

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:19pm #geowebchat also think if poss students should be exposed to different software..not every1 uses esri!! i havent since leaving uni

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:19pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield could you flesh out what “non-tech students” means to you? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:19pm #geowebchat @michael_d_gould – some debate over whether industry needs computer scientists rather than GIS people? or both skills?

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:19pm .@sidewalkballet Marketable GIS might be expert in ArcGIS10.x. Employable right now. Durable is geostats #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:19pm @re_sieber UCL is a top school in a top city. They can offer an MSc in kittycats and get students. :) #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:20pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield the question I guess then is what type of student do you target? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:20pm @re_sieber #geowebchat – durable is also ‘this is what a GIS does’ and I can use all GIS because I know this …

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:20pm @re_sieber @claireellul at @ucl we offer multiple & overlapping routes so it provide specialisation while making it viable #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:20pm @carstenkessler absolutely! no-one said anything about the Arc word…that’s just one element of a well designed course #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:20pm @re_sieber okay yeah, durable. we can go do arc tutorials ourselves. don’t want to pay tuition for it. #geowebchat

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:20pm #geowebchat that is especially true in public sector/emergency services

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:20pm @claireellul #geowebchat @ ITC we continue with the recipe CORE GIS and RS for 3 months specialize for 6 months and do research for 9 months

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:21pm @claireellul @michael_d_gould We employed a computer scientist – they really didn’t get the geo issues – no good at job #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:21pm @eknalprev – #geowebchat – jealous of the 9 months projects .. would love to do that in UK but not feasible financially

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:21pm @AngharadStone .. #geowebchat – what skills/understanding would you say they lacked?

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:21pm #geowebchat i think that element is easier now that @qgis is on the scene. I still cant stand mapinfo tho…

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:22pm @carstenkessler agreed, don’t want package-specific Masters. But *real* GIS means building an app on top of the platform. #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:22pm @claireellul #geowebchat the practical data collection hardly ever goes beyond 1 month for that we lack funds as well

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:22pm .@carstenkessler @kennethfield Any GIScience degree shud contain how to learn ab programming, not specifics bc languages change #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:22pm @AngharadStone @claireellul @michael_d_gould but the algorithms were FAST. ;) #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:22pm We’re in (or should be in) a transition from the ArcGIS driver’s license model to a more data-wonk role. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:22pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber not so true re #top school #geowebchat – we ask for high fees compared with EU competition

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:22pm @michael_d_gould @re_sieber not completely true. Our BSc in Geoinformatics failed and also some past MSc programmes :( #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:23pm Too many GIS programs are trapped in the first model. They’re doing their students a disservice by not transitioning. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:23pm @michael_d_gould Instead of GIScience I’d like to offer a masters degree in kittycats & get students (not cats) ;-) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:23pm Our Master in geospat tech has only one “GIS” course, the rest is fundamental tech and method. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:23pm Varied bgrounds (geog, comp sci) but its an integrating discipline…we called one MSc ‘Applied GIS’, other ‘GIScience’ #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:24pm @re_sieber @kennethfield Agreed, but you don’t learn programming by reading books. Learn one language, then the next is easy. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:24pm @mhaklay ok, so there ARE limits to breadth. :) #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:24pm @claireellul anything spatial from points & polygons (spent 1/2 hour explaining areas) to Regular expressions for postcodes #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:25pm Any GIS program w/o mandatory Databases + Programming is stealing their student’s money — they won’t be prepared for the future. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:25pm btw, our BSc in GIS closed. Tough to recruit from schools. GIS now lives within ‘Geography’ or only thru advanced quals like MSc #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:25pm This. MT @michael_d_gould: programming may be difficult for non-tech students, but it’s a *way of thinking* that they need. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:26pm @AngharadStone in many cases CS types (programmers) DO pick up geo nicely. #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:26pm @claireellul Do not under estimate the value of teaching geo/spatial programming #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:26pm Where do visualization and cartography stand in graduate GISci programs? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:26pm @nixzusehen #geowebchat .. as we offer both at UCL I would of course agree!

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:26pm .@cn174 Shud we have domain MSc’s? A MSc of Geomatics for biz, emergency services…? Students may want hi level of specificity #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:27pm @mhaklay @michael_d_gould @re_sieber So where is there a BSc in Geoinformatics in UK? I know of one in Newcastle. Any others? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:27pm @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone I’ve often said a that it’s easier to teach a programmer GIS than the other way around. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:27pm @AngharadStone I agree – we teach both databases and programming using ‘geo’ examples … e.g. loction based gaming. #geowebchat

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:27pm Somewhat off topic: we’re running now a whole module on HCI/Usability and geo. Anyone else even think about users? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:28pm @mjfoster83 I think they’re getting short shrift. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:28pm @re_sieber @cn174 that idea came up last week too – the ‘GIS+’ degree, where + could be civ engineering, disaster mgmt etc. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 12:28pm Forex, the new hire reading list at Mapbox isn’t about geo, they assume you can pick it up on yr own. gist.github.com/tmcw/6814708 #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:28pm @michael_d_gould I am very jealous if you have found so, I have not – & lets not start talking about how bad their carto is! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:28pm viz & carto strong if faculty staff have expertise…else not so much. curricula always shaped by staff #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:28pm @re_sieber @cn174 the idea has been well received so far! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:28pm .@mhaklay @michael_d_gould Always fascinated me that Bachelors, Grad degrees had expiration dates, ie fell out of favor #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:29pm we focus on the academic level thinking about spatial info. basic skills is part+ possble to chose informatics or socsci angle #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:29pm @kennethfield same here: GIS only in MSc and part time fhwn.ac.at/en/Studies/Eng… #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:29pm side question: why do so FEW CS programmes/degrees focus on geo/spatial? #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:29pm @mappingmashups I want to read that, but it took me to an empty gist? #geowebchat

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:29pm @udemsar Swansea, Ulster, Brighton … but Newcastle is alone in the Russell Group I think #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:29pm @nixzusehen In tandem with viz and cart, UI/UX and usability need consideration. #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:30pm Should introduce myself, as I just accidentally fell into #geowebchat. Lecturer in Geoinformatics,at @CGIStAndrews, area geovisual analytics

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:30pm @mappingmashups and therein lies a problem…assuming you can “pick up” geo is plain wrong #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:31pm @kennethfield @mappingmashups we’re very bad at explaining why geo is not driving word but needs expertise like statsistics #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:31pm @mjfoster83 @CASAUCL runs an MRes in Advanced Spatial Analysis and Visualisation, one of the few though I think #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:31pm in all “we” want to cover everything. difficulty is to choose what to limit to. what do future students want to learn? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:31pm @nixzusehen @michael_d_gould True to teach GIS, not to teach all the background understanding of location, spatial, geo #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:31pm @claireellul that’s what Steinitz recommends for Geodesign: not standalone rather GD for x discipline. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:31pm .@michael_d_gould No geo in CS programs bc space to them is 2 extra columns or it’s already covered in math (topology, geometry) #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:32pm @michael_d_gould the problem with CS degrees is a whole different conversation. They’re often too abstract relative to jobs. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:32pm @AngharadStone normally you don’t assign the programmer carto duties ;) #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:33pm @mjfoster83 @nixzusehen MSc GIS also needs spatial data handling of heterogeneous data, spatial data mining #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:33pm About MScs, we’re starting MSc in Geoinformatics in 2015 at @CGIStAndrews, in #qstep programme.Will be methods/development MSc #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:33pm We’re fortunate to see high demand for our Penn State MGIS online program – 200+ active students, programming/db topics popular #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:33pm @nixzusehen @michael_d_gould #geowebchat .. indeed, one of the strengths of GIS MSc is the applied nature of the work!

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:33pm GIS is spatial theory, maths, analytics, geostats, cart, programming etc. MSc needs to cover a lot, not all equally attractive! #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:34pm @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone funny they don’t get carto duties but are expected to do ux duties … ux supposedly easier? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:34pm #geowebchat I have had to take a few new colleagues through a vigorous reading of @kennethfield ‘s CartoBlog – their maps are appalling

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:34pm don;t get me started ;-) RT @michael_d_gould: @AngharadStone normally you don’t assign the programmer carto duties ;) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:34pm @kennethfield on the other hand loads of geographers take a python course and compete for soft engineering jobs. #fail #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:34pm .@mjfoster83 Geoviz is still pretty important in grad GISci programs but it doesn’t look like cartography. More like GUI #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:36pm @underdarkGIS also a mistake to dump UX on unassuming programmers. same for sales, writing, etc. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:36pm #geowebchat . I’m seeing general consensus on teaching GI Science skills + databases/software?

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:36pm @underdarkGIS @michael_d_gould I would say that Geo (both maps and the functionality) UX is very hard #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:36pm @re_sieber agreed, but should there be a difference? I would argue modern cartography is in large part GUI design #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:36pm My approach to include programming in #MSA last term: indiv. student projects in carto/geoviz course. DB mgmt is a core course. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:36pm #geowebchat but less consensus on whether CS people will work out or not?

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:37pm At K’ton we ditched refs to ‘cartography’, ‘statistics’ & ‘programming’. instead: ‘viz/mapping’, ‘analysis’ & ‘development’ #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:37pm @A_C_Robinson you guys are doing it better than most. Also have faculty to support it, which is uncommon. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:38pm #geowebchat .. OK, so what about who will employ graduates in the next 5 years?

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:38pm My observation is that flexible coursework options are essential, challenging to support when you also want consistent graduates #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:38pm @claireellul I now teach CS students: in general they are fearless problem-solvers; a nice quality for any team. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:38pm @mjfoster83 Couldn’t agree more. We lose so much of cartography when we rebrand it as geoviz #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:38pm Do any MSc GIS courses teach whole units solely devoted to programming? Spatially oriented or otherwise? If so, which languages? #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:39pm @michael_d_gould my ideal would be a CS graduate intake to the MSc programme .. because I teach Java + Databases! #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:39pm @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone it can take a while to convince CSs that geo is anything different #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:39pm @edthink we do web and mobile – purely java programming. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:39pm @re_sieber @mjfoster83 agreed…but rebranding is simply to avoid student pre-conceptions. Content is key #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:40pm @nixzusehen Thanks, I think we do a good job too. It started small though and I think many schools bite off too much at first. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:40pm @jeremy_morley @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone I thnk that is where industry/professional orgs. can help! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:40pm .@kennethfield Is degree name (eg MSc in geo #bigdata analytics) & content (viz) merely a rebranding of what we’ve always done? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:40pm @michael_d_gould @kennethfield just saw an interesting report that CS degree was un-correlated to success as programmer. #geowebchat

@eknalprev Jan 21, 12:40pm I’m reading here that we must be happy at ITC, able to cover all angles with a dedicated 100 faculty. whether to choose at all. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:40pm @kennethfield @re_sieber @mjfoster83 Would you also rebrand the name of the programme? What would you call it? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:41pm Repeat: real industrial GIS users use apps developed by consultants. They don’t use stock menus inside the stock Arc box. #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:41pm @edthink we do. Currently switching from VB (!) to Python. “Spatial Data Handling” @UoNGeography #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:41pm @claireellul #geowebchat recent trend in Toronto: geospatial HEALTH analyst. as well, regular postings for market analysts = business field.

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:41pm In which MSc are they teaching how to integrate the geo/spatial into larger industrial apps to solve specific problems? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:42pm @claireellul employes? Not me :-( #geowebchat say goodbye to the safe home of UK public sector

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:42pm @ClausRinner So the ‘GIS+’ idea seems to be a good one then! #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:42pm @re_sieber I think so. Content always evolves (or should). Rebranding makes it something ‘current’ for students & employers #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:42pm @edthink We plan to do this in new MSc, is urgent bc of student diversity. Will be Java,Processing,maybe Matlab/R for stats work #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:42pm @claireellul ah yes, we tried java for half of GISPT in first term and didn’t work v well, needs longer I think #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:42pm .@michael_d_gould Great pt. (Would love to see data on this.) Should GI MSc train the users or the consultants? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:42pm @claireellul @jeremy_morley @michael_d_gould @AngharadStone Ugh. Professional orgs focused too much on present, not on future. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:43pm @nixzusehen yes, well, true that many good programmers did not study CS per se. #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:44pm @jeremy_morley interesting, I think Python is ideal. Integrated with Arc, stand alone or both? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:44pm .@claireellul @kennethfield @mjfoster83 A MSc in spatial #bigdata analytics. That should be sufficiently buzzword-compliant #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:44pm @claireellul @re_sieber no one knows what GIS exactly is (science? system?!) and cartography is conceived as antequated, so yes #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:44pm @edthink they do python in 1st term now (5 wks) then java in second term for 10 wks. mostly API stuff due to time constaraints. #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:44pm @nixzusehen Absolutely. Arguable whether a CompSci even has to know “programming” #geowebchat //cc @drdrmc

@TheRascala Jan 21, 12:44pm @A_C_Robinson Students would benefit from working with real time data order to get them ready for the job market #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:45pm @udemsar @edthink I find it’s better to learn one language really well. Python is my first choice for GIS, datavis, stats #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:45pm #geowebchat re career prep, are other programs using Geospatial Technology Competency Model, careeronestop.org/competencymode…, for curriculum dev?

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:45pm @claireellul @re_sieber MSci of <insert buzz word here> #perhapstoocynical #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:45pm @nixzusehen @claireellul @jeremy_morley Yes because I want you to do a job right now – would hire as R&D otherwise #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:45pm @edthink At Münster, the BSc (!) students have to take a whole bunch of CS and math classes. #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:45pm @edthink But ideally, student should learn programming solidly before MSc, also relevant maths & stats. #possiblyunrealistic #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:45pm @ClausRinner Not in the UK as far as I am aware … #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:46pm @mattmoehr teach the consultants: the app-builders. Users are punters who have a non-GIS job to do. #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:46pm @udemsar @edthink mostly because it is really hard to switch between language. One lang helps focus on actual problem solving #geowebchat

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 12:46pm @mjfoster83 @claireellul @re_sieber UCL now has an MRes in Smart Cities and Urban Analytics… interesting but will it be useful #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:46pm @mjfoster83 @re_sieber the question is would <buzzword> recruit good students onto the course and get them jobs after? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:46pm .@mattmoehr @michael_d_gould Cloud, mashing up have made distinctions btwn user & consultant vague. Many more levels now as well #geowebchat

@jedalong Jan 21, 12:47pm In what sense should an MSc or MGIS be different fron a technical diploma? I think there has to be independent research. #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:47pm @udemsar it’s tricky but I think this ‘way of thinking’ prog brings is most important, esp for non tech students #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:47pm @claireellul All things geospatial will continue making inroads into more mainstream business application, big potential market. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:48pm @jeremy_morley for CS programming is like a typewriter is to a literature student; how you communicate. #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:48pm @re_sieber @michael_d_gould most of my hacking never gets polished/tested/implemented as an app. #personalFail #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 12:48pm @michael_d_gould MSc at KTH, Stockholm. Course was led by guests from industry who brought a problem for students 2solve. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:48pm Let’s face it, Geog is not considered ‘sexy’. Comp Sci is considered ‘hard’. Buzzwords go long way to helping bridge the issue #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:48pm @claireellul ‘future employers’ seeing increasing tread in public out sourcing GI services to private – in UK think G-cloud #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:49pm @edthink we’ll also have a new “Wdb Technologies” MSc GIS module next year #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:49pm @underdarkGIS @udemsar I’d agree with this, Python is flexible, cross platform, with simple syntax, plus has Arc integration #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:50pm .@jedalong P’haps we should make greater distinctions btwn postgrad diplomas in GIS and MSc in GIS. Latter has indep research? #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:50pm @edthink These courses are free to use/re-use through our Open Educational Resources initiative as well: open.ems.psu.edu #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:50pm @re_sieber @jedalong certainly for us that is the case #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:50pm @claireellul #geowebchat demand here not large enough for GIS+ programs; each #MSA cohort covers business to environm to health to crime…

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:51pm @kennethfield In MSc GIS, buzzwords soothe the soul #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 12:51pm @re_sieber @jedalong Our MGIS students complete a capstone, which quite often now leads to published research. Lines blurring #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:51pm and are the mother of reinvention RT @re_sieber: In MSc GIS, buzzwords soothe the soul #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:52pm @A_C_Robinson how long is your programme? #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:52pm @jeremy_morley that’s great. Sounds like a good course structure wrt student prospects #geowebchat

@ClausRinner Jan 21, 12:53pm @claireellul #geowebchat 2/2 core/common platform (fulltime & parttime students) and transferable skills key for #MSA grads from Ryerson.

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:53pm @kennethfield I’m realizing @foss4g needs a series of talks/panels on the future of GIS/geo-related education. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:53pm .@ClausRinner @claireellul @ucl may be unique in the world in terms of its Masters in Geo/GI x offerings #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Jan 21, 12:53pm @re_sieber @jedalong Agreed, intellectually and critically advancing the field is different than learning tools. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:55pm Not sure if we’ve answered the qns I posed? Cld we just tweet how much grads. should get paid + where they will be working? #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:55pm @edthink hopefully. We’re in transition still. Ask me this time next year! #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:56pm In UK, around £25,000, retail, health, degence, govt. insurance, planning, property, finance, demographics, transport. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:57pm To summarise: 1: teach geo concepts not how to drive the software #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 12:57pm To summarise: 2: computer science/programming skills are important #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:57pm jobs I’ve seen in UK recently offer derisory salary (< £18k) yet want everything = reduces incentive to study/get quals #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:57pm @lolkins cool. We’ll be on version 3 of web pracs this year. Portable Virtual Box from stick instead of booting from them. #geowebchat

@carstenkessler Jan 21, 12:57pm @edthink So this creates new problems, because you cannot bore the techy students and you cannot ask too much of the non-techy #geowebchat

@cn174 Jan 21, 12:57pm #geowebchat I think starting salaries (and salaries in general) are getting less, which must be off putting

@re_sieber Jan 21, 12:57pm GIS grads will get jobs in domains (health, transp). I just wish they cud get jobs@ Google, etc so they cud infl platform dev #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Jan 21, 12:58pm #prt appalling low salaries for unique skill sets. :( #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 12:58pm ‘@claireellul ‘where to work’ – private consulting for gov departments ‘how much’ – approx £25k starting bu no job security #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 12:59pm @carstenkessler @edthink but that’s been a tension in GIS classes for the last 15yrs I’ve taught on them! #techiesvsgeographers #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:59pm @claireellul 28-40k eur is what I’ve heard so far #geowebchat

@kennethfield Jan 21, 12:59pm many of our MSc students were p/t students. course paid by employers to retrain/update #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:00pm @cn174 All the more reason to get a GIS PhD! Just joking. Current mkt terrible. How ab teaching GIS grad ab union organizing? #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 1:00pm Where does everyone recruit for MScs? CS/maths/stats students? Geographers? Diversity of backgrounds can cause problems for MSc #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:00pm @jeremy_morley @carstenkessler @edthink MSc GIS is a ‘comp sci conversion for geogs’ and a ‘geog/social sci conv. for comp sci’ #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 1:01pm @carstenkessler exactly, it’s tricky, although lucky that scripting languages now more popular/dev’d, easier to teach non-techs #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 1:02pm @claireellul @carstenkessler @edthink indeed. #geowebchat I always tell a class they’ll know some of it already, but each a different bit

@cn174 Jan 21, 1:02pm #geowebchat e.g. “WANTED Graduate, ArcGIS/AutoCAD also exp in SQL/Oracle/Python/VB FME, OGC Standards/Inspire bla bla etc. £17,000″ rubbish!

@CarsonFarmer Jan 21, 1:02pm Great question @udemsar We’re looking pretty widely in some cases, geog & cs mostly at this point. #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:02pm @AngharadStone @kennethfield interestingly our MScs are doing well. Some of them are being recruited now, course ends Sept 2014. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 1:02pm Well, looks like the hour has run out for #geowebchat. Thanks so much @claireellul for organizing an excellent chat!

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:03pm @udemsar I recruit my Masters students from geography. To do the hardcore data handling, algorithms, umm, I get them from CS #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 1:03pm @udemsar recruiters ask “what can you do?” and the exact MSc label is secondary. #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 1:03pm @claireellul @jeremy_morley @carstenkessler @edthink the human-environment geographer in me wishes that were more true. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson Jan 21, 1:03pm Another relevant datapoint regarding salaries are these results from a 2011 salary survey in the US: directionsmag.com/articles/geose… #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 1:03pm @carstenkessler @edthink But it’s a blessing and a curse. Interdisciplinary teaching is tougher but valuable! //cc @HorizonDER #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 1:04pm @CarsonFarmer Our local geogs are nontechs, but we are working on it #qstep. #techiesvsgeographers #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:05pm Thanks to all for your input .. looks like this debate will continue here and elsewhere! #geowebchat

@claireellul Jan 21, 1:05pm Some clear conclusions (need comp sci skills + need to teach theory) .. but also lots of things to think about! #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Jan 21, 1:05pm Excellent #geowebchat @claireellul look forward to seeing you in March “UCL (GIS) Careers Event” eventbrite.com/e/ucl-geograph… via @eventbrite

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:06pm .@jeremy_morley @carstenkessler “Interdisciplinary teaching is tougher but valuable!” Also never rewarded in academia #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 1:06pm @claireellul thanks to you and to all #geowebchat ers

@sidewalkballet Jan 21, 1:07pm thanks @claireellul – great topic to lurk on #geowebchat

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:07pm Great #geowebchat today! Look for the digest on mappingmashups.net

@mappingmashups Jan 21, 1:07pm Next #geowebchat will be on February 4th. Provisional topic is “Open data and the geoweb”, hosted by @geothinkca

@kennethfield Jan 21, 1:08pm thanks for hosting the #geowebchat @claireellul & also to @mappingmashups #goodtimes

@jeremy_morley Jan 21, 1:08pm @re_sieber @carstenkessler depends where you are! Our Digital Economy CDT & research hub is all about interdisc.-see @HorizonDER #geowebchat

@udemsar Jan 21, 1:08pm Agreed! RT @michael_d_gould @claireellul thanks to you and to all #geowebchat ers

@re_sieber Jan 21, 1:09pm Thanks @claireellul for a great #geowebchat and I’ll see you in Spring/Summer

@vtcraghead Jan 21, 1:47pm @tmcw @nixzusehen @kennethfield @mappingmashups The Q is “Will @Mapbox suffer for lack of GIS staff”? I’m going with “No”. #geowebchat

@CIRCAInstitute Jan 21, 2:15pm RT @mappingmashups: Next #geowebchat will be on February 4th. Provisional topic is “Open data and the geoweb”, hosted by @geothinkca

@mhaklay Jan 21, 12:27pm Somewhat off topic: we’re running now a whole module on HCI/Usability and geo. Anyone else even think about users? #geowebchat

@nixzusehen Jan 21, 12:25pm Any GIS program w/o mandatory Databases + Programming is stealing their student’s money — they won’t be prepared for the future. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Jan 21, 12:23pm Our Master in geospat tech has only one “GIS” course, the rest is fundamental tech and method. #geowebchat

@Dragons8mycat Jan 22, 12:35am RT @mappingmashups: Next #geowebchat will be on February 4th. Provisional topic is “Open data and the geoweb”, hosted by @geothinkca

@Dragons8mycat Jan 22, 12:37am Great #geowebchat last night discussing the MSc in #GIS – suggest all you #geotypes drop in on the 4th Feb for the next one #opendata

@digitalurban Jan 22, 6:13am …@edthink @mjfoster83 More info on our courses here: bartlett.ucl.ac.uk/casa/programme… #geowebchat

@underdarkGIS Jan 21, 12:45pm @udemsar @edthink I find it’s better to learn one language really well. Python is my first choice for GIS, datavis, stats #geowebchat

@edthink Jan 21, 12:38pm Do any MSc GIS courses teach whole units solely devoted to programming? Spatially oriented or otherwise? If so, which languages? #geowebchat

@jedalong Jan 21, 12:47pm In what sense should an MSc or MGIS be different fron a technical diploma? I think there has to be independent research. #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley 8:02am @mhaklay yes! We offer HF optional modules in our MSc GIS. #geowebchat #Tweetedbetterlatethannever

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping | Leave a comment

Next #geowebchat: Where Next for the MSc in GIS? January 21, 2014

Next #geowebchat: Tuesday 21st January 2014, 12pm PST, 3pm EST, 8pm GMT.

[Guest post by Claire Ellul]

Hi all,

We’d like to invite you to the next #geowebchat – ‘Where Next for the MSc in GIS?’. To quickly introduce myself, I’m a Lecturer in GIS at University College London in the UK, and prior to becoming an academic I was a GIS consultant for 10 years, based in the UK but working in Europe and the Middle East.

Here in the UK there is great demand for the specialist skills provided by the MSc in GIS, with students finding employment prior to completing the course. However, there is an increasing lack of supply. This is coupled with an increasingly wider range of skills required from graduates, more of which are highly technical. We’re also introducing new, more specialist courses (MSc in Geomatics for Building Information Modelling and MSc in Spatio-Temporal Analytics and Big Data Mining) and we’d love to find out whether the traditional general MSc is still relevant. We’ve held a face to face meeting with contacts in London, but there has also been interest from elsewhere and we think the topic is relevant to many other groups too! So we’re asking the following questions:

1. What sectors will be employing GIS graduates in 5 years, and how much will they be paying?

2. What skills should the students have?

3. What courses should we run? Is a general MSc in GIS still relevant, or do we need more specialist courses?

4. How can we recruit bright students into the profession?

5. Is the word GIS still relevant or are GIS people ‘the people who make the maps’?

Hope to see you online ..

Best regards

Claire

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping | Leave a comment

#geowebchat transcript: 17 December 2013: #topgeostoryof2013


@mappingmashups Dec 06, 11:40am New post: Vote for the Top Geo Story of 2013: #topgeostoryof2013 bit.ly/1bm8F58

@kgjenkins Dec 09, 6:59pm In May, @MapBox launched new iD editor for @openstreetmap #topgeostoryof2013

@kgjenkins Dec 09, 7:00pm QGIS 2.0 drops the “quantum” #topgeostoryof2013

@neogeografen Dec 10, 1:28pm Media world wide january writting Google Maps were the first to create a digital map of North Korea #geohoax story #topgeostoryof2013

@kgjenkins Dec 12, 1:51pm @eltonteb @Elijah_Meeks @sgillies @MapBox #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups Dec 13, 12:52pm What was the #topgeostoryof2013? Send me your votes by December 17: mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:00am .@mappingmashups another vote for @hotosm as a #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:03am .@mappingmashups a vote for #topgeostoryof2013 is prioritization of #geoint in US workforce development nap.edu/catalog.php?re… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:08am another #topgeostoryof2013 is pushback against #geotagging bc of how much it reveals ab you youtu.be/5P_0s1TYpJU #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:12am #topgeostoryof2013 Even after the Apple Maps flop, Google Maps still lost customers to it theguardian.com/technology/201… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:15am #topgeostoryof2013 Cartodb’s platform to create maps from data feeds hosted on external sites blog.cartodb.com/post/656397473… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:20am #topgeostoryof2013 cities w local police gaining access 2 #bigdata, phone, CCTV, soc media, tolls, drones nytimes.com/2013/10/14/tec… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:22am #topgeostoryof2013 Crowdsourcing urban temperature w smartphone battery temperatures and OpenSignal App onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/gr… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:25am #topgeostoryof2013 US gov shutdown affects geospatial data access, from NASA, Census Bureau, NOAA, etc. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:29am #topgeostoryof2013 NSA admits tracking locations of cellphone calls in US thehill.com/blogs/hillicon… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:33am #topgeostoryof2013 crowdsourced maps possible future of navigation gigaom.com/2013/09/15/are… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:37am #topgeostoryof2013 Being sued for VGI: Hotel owner sues tripadvisor reuters.com/article/2013/0… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:41am #topgeostoryof2013 GPS is affecting our natural ability to navigate bostonglobe.com/ideas/2013/08/… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 15, 11:46am #topgeostoryof2013 Using 3D printing to create mobile cities for hermit crabs weburbanist.com/2013/08/02/her… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54am #topgeostoryof2013 the backlash to #bigdata, #smalldata theguardian.com/news/datablog/… like local bus, recycling routes #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 8:15am #topgeostoryof2013 is the #fail of hyperlocal content aggregators. First Everyblock & now Patch nytimes.com/2013/12/16/bus… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Dec 16, 11:55am Tomorrow on #geowebchat, we’re counting down to the #topgeostoryof2013. Send your votes & join the chat, Tue 12p PST mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 3:45pm Another article supporting courts& #geosurveillance 4 #topgeostoryof2013: Warrants needed to track phone locations nj.com/politics/index…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 4:04pm #topgeostoryof2013 the mapping of traces in urban landscape left by social media tracemedia.co.uk/luminous/ via @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 5:49pm Another company made poss only bc of geog tech, Airbnb runs afoul of city regulations valleywag.gawker.com/new-york-senat… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 6:28pm Hard to argue w this nom for #topgeostoryof2013 geography teacher geek chic beautyworldnews.com/articles/3300/… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson Dec 16, 7:12pm #topgeostoryof2013 has to be iD editor for #osm by @MapBox

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:20pm #topgeostoryof2013 #OSM reaches 1million users #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:23pm #SpatialDigitalHumanities #topgeostoryof2013 A spatial network model of travel in ancient Rome youtu.be/KwoshD3esdc orbis.stanford.edu

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:25pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 The decline in #geotagging & turrning off of location tracking, esp among teens marketingland.com/pew-nearly-hal… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:27pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 fb developing location tracker bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-0… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:32pm #topgeostoryof2013 Google Moto X heralds next big thing in smartphones, geolocative predictive intell technologyreview.com/news/514366/wi… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:35pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 E-commerce sites automatically vary prices based on your location lifehacker.com/5973689/how-we… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:37pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Launch of social checkin mobile app to identify location based racism locationbasedracismapp.launchrock.com #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:39pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Unreliability of Google Flu nature.com/news/when-goog… & global mapping of infectious diseases rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/368/16…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:44pm #topgeostoryof2013 Hazard of tweeting for crisis commn:Calgary police go 2Twitter jail 4 too many tweets during flood vancouversun.com/technology/Les…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:45pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 The anti social checkin mapping app hell.j38.net to put optimal spatial distance btwn you &your ‘friends’

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:47pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Drones for war, drones for environment & in 2013 drones for peace washingtonpost.com/world/national… My solution? No drones

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:51pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 Ancient city found using LIDAR theage.com.au/world/the-lost… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:53pm #topgeostoryof2013 Now illegal to map concealed gun owners in Louisiana & other backlashes to gun mapping gawker.com/5974290/look-b… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 With an app & a GPS wristband, a DIY prison wo walls popularmechanics.com/how-to/blog/sx… #badidea #geowebchat

@re_sieber Dec 16, 7:54pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 #bigdata meets #geosurveillance in the workplace to squeeze out that last bit of productivity online.wsj.com/news/articles/…

@re_sieber Dec 16, 8:08pm #topgeostoryof2013 term geofencing, ad hoc geog boundaries.Apps generate alerts when employees,others cross perimeter directionsmag.com/articles/how-t…

@eknalprev 7:28am #topgeostoryof2013 Voyager 1 Reaches Interstellar Space science.nasa.gov/science-news/s… #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 8:06am #topgeostoryof2013 web map dynamic hill shading blew my mind: mapbox.com/blog/dynamic-h… @MapBox

@mappingmashups 10:04am Today on #geowebchat, send me your votes for the #topgeostoryof2013 mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot… then join the chat at 12pm PST, 3pm EST, 8pm GMT.

@mappingmashups 10:05am Would also love to hear the #GISChat people’s votes for the #topgeostoryof2013 mappingmashups.net/2013/12/06/vot…

@mappingmashups 11:38am Great nominees for the #topgeostoryof2013 tweeted by @re_sieber in the last few days. Definitely worth perusing. RTs = votes! #geowebchat

@Brobdingnag 11:52am New GoogleMaps? @googlemaps #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 11:59am Here are some “interesting maps” of 2013 from @GISLounge. gislounge.com/interesting-ma… Any #topgeostoryof2013 contenders here? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Hi everyone, and welcome to the last #geowebchat of the year. For the next hour we’ll be talking about (& voting for) the #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:00pm If you don’t want to follow along, see if your twitter client can mute the hashtag #geowebchat and/or #topgeostoryof2013.

@MapHugger 12:02pm Can “@MapBox does every cool thing ever” count as #topgeostoryof2013? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:03pm If you want to follow the #geowebchat, try using twitterfall.com where you can search for both hashtags. Or: twitter.com/search?q=%23ge…

@re_sieber 12:03pm @mappingmashups for today’s #geowebchat, what’s the preferred hashtag? That or #topgeostoryof2013? Using 2 hashtags cuts down on characters.

@mappingmashups 12:03pm @MapHugger It can, and I’ve already received many votes to that effect. :) #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:04pm @re_sieber I think we should stick to #geowebchat. Including #topgeostoryof2013 is optional. But I will record both in the transcript.

@re_sieber 12:04pm .@mappingmashups I have ~30-40 #topgeostoryof2013. So RT at will #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm We’ll spend the first half of this #geowebchat as a discussion, and you are free to keep voting. In the 2nd half hour I’ll tally the votes.

@re_sieber 12:07pm I vote for the rise of geolocative predictive intelligence w Moto X as a #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat Not just your traces but where u go

@mappingmashups 12:07pm Last year there were a few other geo blogs that posted top 10 lists for 2012, but I didn’t see anything similar for 2013. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:08pm Here’s the link for @re_sieber’s vote about the Moto X. I hadn’t read that one. technologyreview.com/news/514366/wi… #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@re_sieber 12:09pm RT #topgeostoryof2013, decline of #geotagging & location tracking turned off, which has huge implications for geog research #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:10pm I nominate #NSA revealing they can and do geolocational tracking of mobile phones (and prob. same for #FBI) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:11pm Nearly half of teens have turned off location tracking marketingland.com/pew-nearly-hal… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:12pm .@JeremyCrampton Also much involvement of courts this yr in NSA location tracking #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:13pm How about the wave of neogeo DIY pedagogy? @cartoDB’s #MapAcademy, @tmcw’s #mapschool, & #maptime at @stamen & other locations.. #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 12:15pm @re_sieber totes #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:15pm A phys/virtual #topgeostoryof2013 is rise of uber, lyft, airbnb, only poss bc of geospatial & their battles w city regulations #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:16pm @re_sieber I would be curious to see how much of this is privacy motivated vs battery motivated #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:18pm .@mjfoster83 RT how much of teens turning off loc tracking is privacy vs battery motivated? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:23pm RT #topgeostoryof2013 Rise of #OSM, in # users, @hotosm new GUIs, probs w Google, Apple #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm @re_sieber Definitely lots of #OSM stories to vote for. Don’t forget the new iD editor, which is a huge deal. #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:26pm RT @Brobdingnag: based on ppl who sent the link because ‘you like maps’ @jshkatz ‘s dialect maps fosho spark.rstudio.com/jkatz/SurveyMa… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:26pm Something from #DiggingIntoDataChallenge RT #topgeostoryof2013 Rise of research into urban mapping of social media traces #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:28pm Following up on the death of #hyperlocal news nytimes.com/2013/12/16/bus…, @everyblock’s surprising return chicagogrid.com/news/everybloc… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:29pm Was 2013 the year of vector maps? New @googlemaps, MapBox vector tiles, etc? #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@re_sieber 12:30pm Poss #topgeostoryof2013 is reactions to #bigdata: rise of #smalldata & #darkdata & #fail of ROI of #bigdata analytics #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:32pm @mappingmashups, i’m overlimit on nyt free views, but what do people think about private geosocial? e.g, nextdoor.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:33pm Okay everybody, last chance to vote. Read over the #geowebchat & #topgeostoryof2013 tweets & send as many votes as you can fit in a tweet.

@re_sieber 12:33pm #topgeostoryof2013 Even after the Apple Maps flop, Google Maps still lost customers to it theguardian.com/technology/201… #geowebchat BYOD #fail

@mappingmashups 12:34pm @erictheise I hadn’t thought of @Nextdoor as “private geosocial”, but I suppose in a sense that’s what it is. But so is #4sq? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:34pm Possible #topgeostory2013 Penn State geo MOOC with 1/3 of students completing! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:35pm .@erictheise @mappingmashups private geosocial like nextdoor.com may be solution to hyperlocal content aggregation #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:35pm Possible #topgeostoryof2013 Penn State geo MOOC with 1/3 of students completing! #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:35pm @mappingmashups, i hadn’t either, but that’s @Nextdoor’s tagline: ‘The private social network for your neighborhood.’ #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:36pm 1 vote for the rise of @openstreetmap #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:36pm Too bumpy in DC taxi for tweeting. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:37pm .@michael_d_gould 1/3 of MOOC students completing is a success story #geowebchat discipline-dependent MOOC completion rates? #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 12:38pm or, the year open source became approachable #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@gregorymarler 12:39pm @mappingmashups I mapped some house numbers on my street for #OSM. #topgeostoryof2013 Small story, big impact if we all keep doing it.

@neogeografen 12:40pm 1 vote for all the good work @hotosm with their contributors did world wide #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:41pm Any fave new geoweb sites this year for #topgeostoryof2013? I nom spatial travel model of ancient Rome orbis.stanford.edu #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:43pm Okay, I had to make some arbitrary groupings for some of these, but here come the top 10 entries for the #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat…

@mappingmashups 12:44pm #10 Release of QGIS 2.0 and the dropping of “Quantum”. The premier open source GIS takes a big step forward. #geowebchat #topgeostoryof2013

@SterlingGIS 12:46pm @mappingmashups DIY neogeography sites you mentioned are largely made possible because of HTML5 and SaaS cloud tech. rising #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:46pm #9 @jshkatz’s dialect maps were voted as the most popular maps of the year by #geowebchat readers. spark.rstudio.com/jkatz/SurveyMa… #topgeostoryof2013

@mappingmashups 12:48pm #8 @MapBox’s dynamic hillshading by @mourner is one of many @MapBox faves on the #topgeostoryof2013 list mapbox.com/blog/dynamic-h… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:48pm .@SterlingGIS @mappingmashups In 2013, we saw the rise (ie actual use) of SaaS for both GIS & #neogeoweb #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:49pm #7 The “year of @openstreetmap” was represented by #OSM hitting 1 million users blog.openstreetmap.org/2013/01/06/1-m… #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@stamenglo 12:49pm #topgeostory2013 #geowebchat Surely it was @stamen hiring @mappingmashups!!!

@SterlingGIS 12:50pm @mappingmashups Now QGIS has a professional-looking interface I imagine it being more competitive. That stuff counts. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:51pm .@mappingmashups Hmm, your 10 #topgeostoryof2013 is a bit product heavy #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:51pm #6 Notable successes, failures, & sudden rebirths in #hyperlocal news (@Nextdoor @PatchTweet @everyblock etc) #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:53pm #5 The year of alternative geo pedagogy: @A_C_Robinson’s maps #MOOC, #mapacademy, #maptime, #mapschool, etc #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:54pm @re_sieber Different voters this year? Or maybe this is the year of products. Lots of product votes didn’t make the cut, too. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm #4 Revelations about NSA #geosurveillance (and other geo-tracking stories) #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mhaklay 12:55pm @SterlingGIS @mappingmashups strange how ‘professional looking’ == ArcGIS. Why can’t QGIS rethink GIS interface? #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:56pm #OpenStreetMap got some worldwide press around the Haiyan relief mapping. Will it have a hockey stick moment in 2014? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:56pm #3 @hotosm’s activation for Typhoon #Haiyan/#Yolanda. Biggest #crisismapping effort since Haiti? Bigger? #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@bethschechter 12:57pm +1 #5 The year of alternative geo pedagogy: @A_C_Robinson maps #MOOC, #mapacademy, #maptime, #mapschool, etc #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:58pm @mhaklay @mappingmashups I refer to the cyan and magenta icons for adding data and the multiple labeling dialogs pre 2.0. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:58pm #2 Another @openstreetmap/@MapBox story: the release of the iD editor, making #OSM much more user-friendly. #topgeostoryof2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm The #topgeostoryof2013: @MapBox’s funding & general awesomeness mapbox.com/blog/10million…. Big implications for the open geoweb. #geowebchat

@erictheise 1:01pm nice work again assembling the yearly roundup, @mappingmashups, thanks, happy holidays to all of youse on #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:03pm Votes for @MapBox’s vector maps & cloudless atlas didn’t make the cut, but certainly solidified their #topgeostoryof2013 ranking #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:05pm Thanks everybody for a great year of #geowebchat! See you on Jan 7. Add webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal to your calendar & never miss a chat.

@mhaklay 1:07pm I’m joining too late – great list of #topgeostoryof2013 but how the $1B for Waze which mean a price tag for VGI is missing? #geowebchat

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