#geowebchat transcript, Nov 19: Crisismapping & Typhoon Haiyan/Yolanda

@mappingmashups Nov 17, 4:43pm Next #geowebchat: Crisismapping & Typhoon #Haiyan/#YolandaPH mappingmashups.net/2013/11/17/nex… Starts 12pm PT (8pm GMT) Nov 19, runs 24hrs thru Nov 20.

@bricker Nov 18, 9:40am Interested in learning more about real time #PPGIS in this weeks #geowebchat read more at mappingmashups.net great idea @mappingmashups

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:00pm Hello everyone, today’s #geowebchat is starting now! We’re discussing crisis mapping and Typhoon #YolandaPH/#Haiyan. mappingmashups.net/2013/11/17/nex…

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:01pm If you want to join the #geowebchat, just follow the hashtag in your twitter client. To ignore us, some clients let you mute a hashtag.

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:03pm Today’s #geowebchat will follow an unusual format: we’ll kick off the conversation now, but you can keep chatting for the next 24 hrs.

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:04pm …hopefully this will allow people in timezones around the world (especially in the Philippines) join the #geowebchat.

@PetersonGIS Nov 19, 12:07pm What do we map when everything’s gone/flattened? Rhetorical question. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:08pm I’d like to invite everybody joining the #geowebchat to introduce themselves, & share any experiences or Qs they have about crisis mapping

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:09pm I’ve done some armchair mapping w/ @hotosm using their great Tasking Manager: tasks.hotosm.org. Mostly tracing buildings. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:10pm …but I don’t know much about any other crisis-mapping activities that have been going on around #YolandaPH/#Haiyan. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:11pm .@PetersonGIS This disaster did prompt a change to the @hotosm map style to show damaged buildings: hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2013-1… #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 Nov 19, 12:12pm @mappingmashups there should never be a time constraint on people who want to #geowebchat.

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:13pm And if you haven’t seen the @hotosm map style by @informagicien, @skorasaurus & others, it’s beautiful: openstreetmap.org/#map=17/11.246… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:13pm @mpmckenna8 It is true, that #geowebchat is always happening, in a sense… if you follow it 24/7 like I do!

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:14pm @mpmckenna8 But it is true that our usual time is biased against those in East Asia and Australia in particular… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 19, 12:15pm 1 prob is how to make content expire on #crisismapping sites when info gets old #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 19, 12:17pm Also #crisismapping often needs to integrate w telecom like texting. @anabrandusescu found that interop v difficult #geowebchat

@floraandflying Nov 19, 12:17pm I missed #geowebchat or the beginning. Dang.

@mpmckenna8 Nov 19, 12:18pm Hope to hear from someone who is/ was in the #Philippines and benefitting from @openstreetmap in #geowebchat.

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 12:18pm @re_sieber another problem is empty maps philfloodmap.crowdmap.com/main #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 19, 12:19pm Geocoding is v difficult too in #crisismapping. SMS, email, tweets manually geocoded in Ushahidi #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:20pm @floraandflying Nope, you didn’t miss anything Nazila! We’re just starting. #geowebchat

@neogeografen Nov 19, 12:20pm Over all problem for OSM newbees non-english-tech people who want contribute – Where to start #crisismapping etc? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:21pm @neogeografen That’s why @hotosm is a strong supporter of internationalization & tutorials for #OSM like learnosm.org #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:23pm @anabrandusescu @re_sieber Are empty maps the result of too many one-off special case maps? #geowebchat

@wisemana Nov 19, 12:25pm @mpmckenna8 the American Red Cross is making maps from OSM and providing them to responders going out there #geowebchat @RBanick

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:27pm RT @neogeografen: @mappingmashups correct – however small languages with small communities it’s takes times to write guides #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 12:27pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber possibly. i’m searching for more haiyan crowdmap/ushahidi deployments, platform i’m most familiar w #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 19, 12:28pm .@mappingmashups @anabrandusescu Mult content on #crisismaps geometry, attributes-Can do geometry but no affected ppl contribute #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:29pm If anyone at #geowebchat wants to listen to the pulse of @hotosm during a crisis activation, you should try IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net/hot

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:30pm RT @skorasaurus: .@wisemana @mappingmashups Yep, the HOT map style was partially funded by @USAIDOTI ;) #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 12:31pm i’ve used crisis platform crowdmap for com dev. have not dealt directly w crises but wonder about digital/physicall connectivity #geowebchat

@skorasaurus Nov 19, 12:33pm @re_sieber good pt on expriring content & #crisismapping . w/ #osm, local community to update it is required, as done in haiti #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 12:34pm how connected are online maps to on-the-ground teams and personnel? has it improved from ushahidi haiti? ggs684.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/6… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:39pm @skorasaurus @anabrandusescu Who was been supporting the development of a local OSM community in Haiti post-quake? @hotosm? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:42pm Here’s a photo of an OSM map in use for disaster response in Guinan, Philippines. Via @hotosm IRC channel flickr.com/photos/esambal… #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 Nov 19, 12:42pm Glad there are some really thorough intros to @hotosm. #geowebchat #crisismapping crisismapper.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/the…

@re_sieber Nov 19, 12:43pm .@skorasaurus Katrina map was example of victims providing content that obsolesced. Never knew whether it was still pertinent #geowebchat

@neogeografen Nov 19, 12:43pm one of the best idea to learn new OSM people #crisismapping like Heidelberg University GIScience did – have a mappingparty #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 12:45pm @mappingmashups @skorasaurus yes, HOT initiatives on the ground wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitar… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:46pm @neogeografen Mapping parties are great way to get new OSMers started. Did anyone attend the DC #crisiscamp this weekend? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:47pm @anabrandusescu @skorasaurus Is it harder to appeal to funding bodies to get $ for post-disaster support? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:47pm RT @skorasaurus: 2 HOT missions have been back to haiti since ’10; led to creation of 2 local OSM orgs in North & st. marc. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:49pm RT @bricker: @mappingmashups @anabrandusescu @skorasaurus is that because of timing issues? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 12:51pm @bricker @anabrandusescu @skorasaurus Just thinking that funders like paying for something new, not supporting smthing ongoing #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 19, 12:51pm @mappingmashups @anabrandusescu @skorasaurus harder to get$ for post-disaster support? #geowebchat Prob is speed &connections to trad relief

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 12:52pm @mappingmashups @skorasaurus referring 2 change. r bodies communicating differently now while in crisis than in previous crises? #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 12:54pm in terms of online crisis maps, we don’t know all the instances bc they’re private crisismap.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/ushahidi/login #geowebchat

@wisemana Nov 19, 12:58pm @anabrandusescu the American Red Cross is making maps from OSM and providing them to responders going out there #geowebchat cc @RBanick

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 1:01pm Thanks everyone for kicking off this unusual 24-hour #geowebchat. I’ll keep checking in to see how the conversation is going. So should you!

@talldave Nov 19, 1:02pm Looking ahead, is there a task manager for crisis-prone areas that can be mapped now, before a crisis? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 1:03pm I’m excited to welcome any people from the Philippines who will join #geowebchat as the sun rises in the _other_ PST! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippin…

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 1:04pm Tomorrow at 1pm Pacific Standard Time I’ll archive this entire #geowebchat discussion and put the transcript here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

@vtcraghead Nov 19, 1:05pm @talldave Relief-agency partners can create those tasks: tasks.hotosm.org #geowebchat But enthusiasm is reactive.

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 1:07pm @vtcraghead @talldave For example: a @hotosm task for mapping Kathmandu which has high earthquake risk tasks.hotosm.org/job/190 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 1:08pm For now, I leave you on #geowebchat with this amazing map of @hotosm activity after #YolandaPH: resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-typhoon-ha…

@vtcraghead Nov 19, 1:23pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat Note that amazing app is also commit-message filterable: resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-typhoon-ha… <– our local mapathon

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 1:24pm @vtcraghead Cool, I didn’t know that! Nice one, @pascal_n! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 1:36pm Here’s a tool to see the difference in OSM data before and after the Typhoon: pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/leaflet/OS… by @penorman & @pierzen #geowebchat

@anabrandusescu Nov 19, 4:40pm online mapmakers and the red cross in the philippines theatlantic.com/technology/arc… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 19, 5:45pm Good morning Philippines, today on #geowebchat we’re talking about crisis mapping after #YolandaPH. More info here: mappingmashups.net/2013/11/17/nex…

@neogeografen Nov 20, 9:02am A german article about the 40 students from Heidelberg University GIScience on a mappingparty last week #geowebchat rnz.de/heidelbergcamp…

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Next #geowebchat, November 19/20: Crisis mapping and Typhoon Haiyan/Yolanda

In the next #geowebchat twitter chat, we will be discussing the crisis mapping efforts related to Typhoon Haiyan/Yolanda. Here are a few news reports and blog posts that reveal the depth and diversity of the humanitarian mapping efforts that are currently underway:

If you have participated in any mapping related to the typhoon, you are particularly encouraged to join the chat to share your experiences. If you haven’t participated yet, there are still many mapping tasks that need volunteers. Why don’t you try taking on some of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team tasks before or during #geowebchat?

The chat will begin at the usual time: 12pm Pacific Standard Time on Tuesday November 19. This equates to 3pm Eastern Standard Time, and 20:00 GMT. Unfortunately, this means that #geowebchat begins at 4AM Philippines time. Therefore, to make sure that residents of the Philippines can participate, this #geowebchat will continue for 24 hours, until 12pm PST on Wednesday November 20. If you can’t join the kickoff during the first hour of the chat, you are welcome to drop in and out of the conversation at any time during that 24 hour period.

To participate in the chat (or simply follow along), follow the hashtag #geowebchat on twitter. To join the conversation, make sure you include “#geowebchat” in your tweets. You may also want to include the hashtag #YolandaPH and/or #Haiyan.

For more information about geowebchat, and to read transcripts of previous chats, go here: http://mappingmashups.net/geowebchat.

Please forward this invitation to anyone who might be interested. Looking forward to chatting with you!

Posted in geowebchat, Mapping | Leave a comment

#geowebchat transcript: 5 November 2013: Are we entering an age of democratized maps?

@mappingmashups Nov 03, 8:41pm Next #geowebchat, Tue Nov 5 12pm PT: Are we entering an age of democratized maps? Followup on #GloUH conference: globalurbanhumanities.berkeley.edu/mapping-and-it…

@mappingmashups Nov 04, 3:24pm Reminder, tomorrow on #geowebchat we’re discussing “the democratization of maps”. Hype or reality? 12pm PT, Tues Nov 5.

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 10:40am Are we entering an age of democratized maps? What are the limits of vernacular cartography? Join the #geowebchat today, 12pm PST. Pls RT!

@ajturner Nov 05, 10:43am @mappingmashups sorry I won’t be able to make it. Giving the keynote at #EsriCanadaUC on just that topic! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:00pm Welcome everybody to today’s #geowebchat. Today’s topic: Are we entering an age of democratized maps? Or are we not? What would that mean?

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:01pm If you want to join the #geowebchat, I suggest tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat or twitterfall.com. Be sure to add the hashtag to each tweet!

@JessiBreen Nov 05, 12:02pm Hi! #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Nov 05, 12:02pm @mappingmashups Hi everyone! Jacq from Calgary here. Looking forward to today’s #geowebchat. It will be my last for a while. 1/2

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:02pm And if you want to ignore our twitter conversation, try using a twitter client that can mute hashtags. But I hope you won’t! #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:03pm The cartographer in me worries that it means the end of cartographic standards. #geowebchat @mappingmashups

@JacqInTheBooks Nov 05, 12:03pm As you know I’ve been participating & collecting #geowebchat tweets for my PhD research. Taking a break now to complete data analysis. 2/2

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:03pm Democratized mapping is great, but if people don’t know what to do with the data, it’s more dangerous that any other media. #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Nov 05, 12:03pm Hope to tune in to #geowebchat again in the future. More details about my research- informallearningonline.webs.com Msg me with any concerns/comments

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:04pm Jetzt #geowebchat mit @mappingmashups, hochrelevant für #ddj/#ddjch: Are we entering an age of democratised maps? What would it mean?

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:04pm Some #geowebchat context: at the Mapping and its Discontents symposium (seethroughmaps.wordpress.com/our-symposium/) this topic came up… #geowebchat #GloUH

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:06pm …Denis Wood argued we’re still in the era of mapping as a tool of the state (mainly from 1500 to the present & perhaps beyond) #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Nov 05, 12:06pm @PatrickMeier are you participating in todays #geowebchat? Really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this topic – irevolution.net/2013/03/17/neo…

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:06pm .@AndrewShears just like vaccine scares. Huge potential for misinterpreting map data #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:06pm Threats: mishandled/-represented data or obfuscation of relevant info by noise? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:07pm Others at the conf thought that perhaps “the popularization of mapping” or “vernacular mapping” might better describe today #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:07pm Where are we on #Gartner’s hype cycle re: democratised, or democratisation of, mapping? gartner.com/technology/res… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:08pm .@mappingmashups We’re in the era of mapping as a tool of the corporation. It’s the Google-ization of everything #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:08pm @JacqInTheBooks It’s been great having you participate in #geowebchat these last few months. Looking forward to seeing your results!

@skorasaurus Nov 05, 12:09pm .@rastrau – imho, we’re still @ the trigger, gartner.com/technology/res… as tech. improves & creates new uses/opportunities #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:09pm @re_sieber Yes, Rebecca Solnit had many choice quotes making that same point at the conference. #geowebchat

@ajturner Nov 05, 12:09pm wide availability of Excel spreadsheets did not end accounting or CPA profession /cc @AndrewShears @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:09pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups @petewarden had an interesting post on that: petewarden.com/2013/09/09/why… #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 05, 12:09pm is the meaning of “democratized mapping” obvious? not sure if it means voting on maps or access to creation/distribution tools #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:10pm .@rastrau We’ve not reached peak hype vv the democratization of maps. Else I’d probably have no students #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Nov 05, 12:10pm @mappingmashups Misread that as “The polarization of mapping” and I was all “Whoa – that’s heavy!” Then I re-read it. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:10pm Tho despite the power of Google, Wood argued that gov maps for redistricting & schools (forex) have greater effect on our lives #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:11pm Are we really democratizing mapmaking if most of the people still can’t read a map with a critical eye? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Nov 05, 12:11pm @ajturner @AndrewShears @mappingmashups Ahem. Maybe too bad. zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-1… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:11pm @erictheise No the meaning of “democratized mapping” is not obvious. Today we can debate what it means. If it means anything. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:12pm .@erictheise Does democratization mean usage or impact on policy that affects lives. I think latter. Former is smokescreen #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Nov 05, 12:12pm @erictheise Good question. I was looking at it from an access and ability to create/share perspective. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Nov 05, 12:13pm @mappingmashups Our city just redistricted in the open, with non-specialists coming up with the final map. Google helped. #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:13pm depends. Google has allocative power, government authoritative. People make emergency calls based on G geoinfo @mappingmashups #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:13pm Still digital and other divide. Many still can’t read maps, don’t have luxury to make maps. Democratized? Maybe not. #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 05, 12:13pm i wonder where the notion of voting for maps (say, approval voting vs. simple majority) would lead, is there a precedent? #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 05, 12:14pm these are the maps that speak for me! #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:14pm GeoCities : Web Design :: Democratized Mapping : ___________? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 05, 12:14pm @ajturner @AndrewShears @mappingmashups nor did MS Word end good literature – quality will win out #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:14pm .@erictheise How voting for maps? Voting on Cong dist redesign? #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Nov 05, 12:15pm @re_sieber Agreed & digital divide is not just about those who can access the tech, but having the skills to interpret & use it #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:15pm .@AngharadStone @ajturner @mappingmashups But, democratization of info (say via WWW) has led to LOTS of junk to wade through. #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 05, 12:15pm @AndrewShears what if a ballot measure had maps instead of text? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 05, 12:15pm @JacqInTheBooks @re_sieber Super important point! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:15pm @erictheise Perhaps Google Maps is the tyranny of the majority? But now we have a version of GMaps customized for each of us… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:16pm Democratizing maps also means not enforcing conformity of scales, symbols, legends. E.g., Children’s maps are scale-variant #geowebchat

@mhaklay Nov 05, 12:16pm @mappingmashups in an era where multi-nationals are de-facto government (lobby power, regulation, tax …) isn’t it the same? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:16pm @erictheise @AndrewShears Today’s SF ballot measures on the waterfront development did have maps! #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:17pm .@mappingmashups @erictheise It’s also tyranny of the satellite image, which isn’t a reflection of our lived experience #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:18pm .@erictheise Can’t even imagine the political posturing that would occur over a map in the ballot…. #geowebchat

@erictheise Nov 05, 12:18pm @mappingmashups personalized google maps = tyranny of narcissism and rut-deepening? #geowebchat

@mhaklay Nov 05, 12:18pm I don’t see a difference if the most powerful undemocratic actor (use to be the state, now web companies) are calling the shots #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:18pm .@AndrewShears IDeditor? Geocommons? Mapbox? <doubtful> #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:19pm .@mappingmashups @erictheise Maps also suggest we have connection to community we live in. Counterexample guys on the Google Bus #geowebchat

@mhaklay Nov 05, 12:21pm Oops have to board a place to Vlinius and miss the rest of #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:22pm Production of maps can’t be fully democratized because there’s (even still) such a high cost of entry… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:22pm .@erictheise @mappingmashups hmm, perhaps there is an argument for the community map, the shared vision #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 05, 12:22pm @re_sieber It doesn’t matter if the sea isn’t blue, it does matter if the sea is marked as land #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:23pm .@AndrewShears Don’t you know that the entry barrier is gone? If you can’t use modern map GUI; it’s your problem </not> #geowebchat

@davidheyman Nov 05, 12:24pm We’ve had democratized map-making for a while. Cartography and map-design is still the domain of experts (not cartographers) #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:24pm @AngharadStone You got me there. Metadata still matters in democratization of maps #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:26pm Heh. Democratization via openness shut down by “community.” @mappingmashups @re_sieber #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:26pm .@davidheyman YES. We’re deluded that mapmaking is democratized but tools don’t automatically deliver compelling cartography #geowebchat

@awoodruff Nov 05, 12:26pm Not to be #rude, but the last time I recall seeing worry about “democratized” mapping was, like, 2008. This is still a thing? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Nov 05, 12:27pm I think i missed the problem that needs to be solved. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:28pm No tool can ever be a cartographer. (except for me…) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:29pm @awoodruff Maybe geogs have moved past the debate, but I was surprised how the crowd at this conf (many planners) was into it. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:29pm .@awoodruff Ground Truth has never left us. We’re better deluded now in thinking that maps are democratized (only half kidding) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Nov 05, 12:30pm @mappingmashups @awoodruff Wait, did we give up? Since it wasn’t solved. #geowebchat

@joeeckert Nov 05, 12:30pm .@JessiBreen @mappingmashups @awoodruff Academics don’t give up. They just get bored. XD #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:31pm @re_sieber @awoodruff Or we (as crit geogs) decided right away that “of course nothing is democratized” & settled it that way… #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:31pm In mapping, we focus on viz but real challenge is in data analysis. How can we democratize that? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:32pm @joeeckert @JessiBreen @mappingmashups @awoodruff Academics don’t give up. They just get bored. #SadButTrue #geowebchat

@joeeckert Nov 05, 12:32pm .@re_sieber Oh, /r/theoryofreddit is that-a-way. Check out /r/dataisbeautiful while you’re there. ;) #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:34pm . @re_sieber Not sure it’s possible. Barrier to entry comes back. Great that tools are free, but where’s free data training? #geowebchat

@joeeckert Nov 05, 12:34pm .@re_sieber Also interesting that we use this “we” word as though academics will suddenly bring democratization to the masses. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:35pm @re_sieber [channeling Denis Wood] the power of maps lies in naming things & bringing them into being, not necessarily analysis #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:35pm .@AndrewShears @re_sieber MOOCs, stackoverflow, github et al. may offer some, but often the entry barrier is still quite high.. #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 05, 12:35pm @re_sieber So how do we make people want to do #MetaData ? for better data leading to better data analysis #geowebchat

@cartoprof Nov 05, 12:36pm @awoodruff Morrison wrote on public acces, paradigm shifts, & the ‘democratization’ of cart in 1997 #geowebchat books.google.com/books?id=rJkP8…

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:36pm .@mappingmashups @re_sieber But doesn’t analysis also bring “things” (clusters, etc) into being? Bad analysis = false things. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:37pm @AndrewShears Yes. We need data training for mapping. See this divide btwn coders and non- @ hackathons all the time #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 05, 12:37pm access to data itself is a huge divide in not just mapping, but coding and analytics in general. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:37pm @cartoprof Hello Prof. Academic Cartography, welcome! So you’re the one we’ve been talking about. :) #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:38pm .@re_sieber Of course, I think that training should start in primary levels (reading maps critically) but unlikely to happen. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:38pm .@joeeckert Converse is that academics detached from masses. Academics do have role/responsibility in community outreach re maps #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:39pm @cartoprof Have you met @PostPostGIS? #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Nov 05, 12:39pm Don’t you think that a tool such as Google Maps or localization for your pics contributed towards the democratization of maps? #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:38pm .@AndrewShears @mappingmashups @re_sieber or remove them. Think generalisation as a type of ‘analysis’. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:40pm .@mappingmashups I won’t back down. Maps are more than cartography (sorry, Denis Wood) #geowebchat

@kennethfield Nov 05, 12:40pm Many classic maps were made by non cartos so it’s always been democratised. Diff now is lower entry thresholds make it easier #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:41pm .@rastrau @mappingmashups @re_sieber Only possible solution: require all kids to read “How to Lie With Maps” in kindergarten… #geowebchat

@rastrau Nov 05, 12:41pm .@AngharadStone @re_sieber I think there’s only one way: enabling them to analyse and then understand the *need* for metadata #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:41pm .@rastrau @AndrewShears agreed that MOOCs, stackoverflow, github, codeacademy et al. are good starts in data literacy #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:42pm .@AngharadStone ‘how do we make people want to do #MetaData ?’ V tough. If I knew, I’d be head of USGS #geowebchat

@alogicalfallacy Nov 05, 12:42pm Everything I make is open-source, but that doesn’t mean it’s democratic. Relationship between my politics and my code is complex #geowebchat

@awoodruff Nov 05, 12:43pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber Ha! And I think the web mappers decided the opposite. #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:44pm .@AndrewShears @rastrau @mappingmashups “How to Lie with Maps” is the “Goodnight Moon” for cartographers #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:45pm .@rastrau @AngharadStone #opendata may help reinforce need for metadata. If we move from RDBMS to xml, that can embed metadata #geowebchat

@AndrewShears Nov 05, 12:45pm Crap, class time. Bye #geowebchat!

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:47pm .@AndrewShears @rastrau @mappingmashups “How to Lie with Maps” is the “Goodnight Moon” for critical geographers #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 05, 12:48pm @re_sieber @rastrau Tools that force extra effort (metadata) reduce input there for less democratic #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:50pm Democratization shudnt be confused w improved service delivery. Just bc my life is easier w GoogleMaps doesn’t mean it’s democ #geowebchat

@kirkgoldsberry Nov 05, 12:52pm @kennethfield best maps I’ve seen in the last 5 years have all been made by the “unwashed” Come on down from the mount, y’all #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:52pm Part of map literacy is knowing potential uses. Think of stereotyped GPS users who follow blindly & that’s all they know of maps #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:54pm Unanswered is the role of the slick product in the democratization of maps. If it looks pretty,official does it have more power? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 05, 12:54pm @mappingmashups Good #Geowebchat tonight. Great points relevant to current work making tools for others to make own web map serivces

@CostanzaAsnaghi Nov 05, 12:54pm @mappingmashups Isn’t that a consequence of people’s relationship with improved service delivery? @re_sieber #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:55pm @re_sieber Yes, and by same token do grassroots maps need to have same slickness to debate gov/corp maps on the same stage? #geowebchat

@kennethfield Nov 05, 12:55pm Good maps. Bad maps. Cartos. Non cartos. Open. Proprietary. Call it what you like… people make maps. Not complicated #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:56pm …or must democratized/grassroots/alternative maps look different to emphasize their contrast with authoritative views? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:56pm .@CostanzaAsnaghi Maybe #firstworldproblems that some equate service delivery w democratization? #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 12:57pm .@mappingmashups My experience is yes: grassroots maps need to have same or better slickness 2debate gov/corp maps on same stage #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 12:57pm Well, we are wrapping up our hour here on #geowebchat. Any last thoughts?

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 1:00pm Next #geowebchat will be at the same time in 2 weeks, November 19. Transcript of this chat will be posted here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat

@kirkgoldsberry Nov 05, 1:00pm @mappingmashups academic geographers own mapmaking about as much as English majors own the novel… Thank God on both accounts #geowebchat

@AngharadStone Nov 05, 1:00pm @mappingmashups Just because you can’t access the tech tools, you could still produce a successful map – old school #geowebchat

@re_sieber Nov 05, 1:00pm .@mappingmashups Did we answer the question whether modern mapping is more democratic? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 1:00pm @re_sieber Did we try to answer it? :) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 1:03pm To summarize, sounds like we agree that more people can make maps, but there’s work to be done to make tools more accessible #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould Nov 05, 1:04pm @mappingmashups Ohhh, now i see: democratized maps are non-authoritative. #yawn #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 1:04pm …but also most of us seemed uncomfortable with calling it democratic, and many feel Google rules maps as much as govs do/did. #geowebchat

@cartoprof Nov 05, 1:10pm @kirkgoldsberry Academic geographers have been teaching mapmaking since the 1920s. Teaching ≠ Owning. #geowebchat

@haileypate Nov 05, 1:12pm +1 & more OSM tutorials needed also! MT @mappingmashups: more people can make maps; need to make tools more accessible #geowebchat

@MikeDuggan4 Nov 05, 1:12pm There is a democracy in use and a democracy of politics at play. More use doesn’t necessarily mean more democratic. #geowebchat

@jscarto Nov 05, 1:26pm @kennethfield + I’d argue focus on Google from neos is what gave impression of “power,” while others continued making own maps #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Nov 05, 1:33pm @migurski Yeah, I guess so. This is why I normally don’t try to summarize #geowebchat in two tweets!

@kennethfield Nov 05, 1:46pm Maps just same as most other stuff the internet has ‘democratised’. Enabler of mass production, dissemination & consumption #geowebchat

@pinakographos Nov 05, 2:29pm I’m late to the #geowebchat but “democratization” is a term that the privileged pat themselves on the back with. geog970.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/a-l…

@pinakographos Nov 05, 2:31pm Anyone can make a map. If they have the time and tools, which are still luxuries for much of the world. #geowebchat

@mattmoehr Nov 05, 2:35pm @pinakographos whoa. From the way back machine. #geowebchat

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OpenStreetMap: Every Line Ever, Every Point Ever

[Crossposted from the Stamen blog]

At Stamen we use OpenStreetMap data in most of the maps we make, including our Watercolor, Toner, and Terrain map tiles. OpenStreetMap is a rich and growing dataset that has been created and maintained by hundreds of thousands of volunteers around the world, and at Stamen we wouldn’t be able to do what we do without it.

But it can be hard to visualize the immense amount of work that goes into building and refining a complex dataset like OpenStreetMap. As part of my dissertation research at the University of British Columbia—research that feeds into the work I am doing at Stamen—I have been looking at the historical OpenStreetMap data to see how the project has grown and evolved over time. For more information about my dissertation research, read my post Introducing “map gardening”.

To this end, I created some visualizations of historical OSM data called OpenStreetMap: Every Line Ever, Every Point Ever


The first map, “Every Line Ever”, starts from a simple premise: draw every version of every linear feature present in the OpenStreetMap historical data, even if those features have been subsequently deleted. Each line is drawn at 1% opacity, such that areas where multiple linear features are present or where multiple versions of a single feature exist, the lines drawn on the screen will accumulate to produce a darker and darker mark. The result produces a map that is strikingly familiar and readable: freeways appear more prominent than city streets, which are in turn darker and more visible than alleyways. However this hierarchy is not derived from any attributes associated with those features; rather, the hierarchy emerges naturally through the cumulative traces of OSM contributors modifying and refining the map. Inevitably, the features that are important to more people are edited more often, thereby becoming darker traces on this map. On further inspection, it is possible to see how the ghostly initial sketches of some features gradually coalesce into thicker, sharper lines as the collective effort of OSM volunteers settles around a consensus.

Here is the same approach, applied to London, England, where the OpenStreetMap project began:


The second map, “Every Point Ever”, follows a similar approach, but using the point features from the OSM history database. In this case, every version of every point is drawn on the map at 1% opacity, but in this map the points are also scaled according to their version number. Thus, a point that has been edited a dozen or even a hundred times will be drawn again and again on the map, represented as an increasingly larger circle. Points that are continually modified in the OSM database will appear to “bleed” onto the page in this map. Where the first map evokes the spidery traces of pencil drawing, this map appears more like a collection of inkblots. Both maps use these metaphors of hand-drawn illustration to reveal the historical traces of effort that normally go unseen when looking at a finished map.



Be sure to try out the interactive version at http://graphspace.com/every-line-every-point which allows you to zoom in and see more detail.

I’m also delighted to say that this project won first place at UC Berkeley’s map exhibit called “See-Through Maps: Maps that lay bare their point of view”, which was part of the Mapping and its Discontents symposium hosted by the Global Urban Humanities Initiative. Please take some time to peruse the other maps in the exhibit; you’ll find a wide range of innovative and beautiful maps, and I was proud to present Every Line Ever, Every Point Ever alongside them.

Posted in Mapping, Networks, not_geowebchat | Leave a comment

#geowebchat transcript, 15 October 2013: Form vs function in web cartography

@mappingmashups Oct 13, 11:42am Next #geowebchat: Form vs function in web cartography. Are style & content mutually exclusive? Tues Oct 15. 12pm PDT. #NACIS2013 Please RT!

@mappingmashups Oct 14, 12:44pm New post: Next #geowebchat, October 15: Form vs function in web cartography bit.ly/1clEjjt

@MapsterMan Oct 15, 5:01am Upcoming Twitter discussion on form vs. function in web cartography tinyurl.com/n2epza8 #geowebchat lnkd.in/bfY2Q9d

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 11:54am Today’s #geowebchat about form and function in web cartography starts in a few minutes. Read up on last time’s chat: mappingmashups.net/2013/10/01/geo…

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:00pm Welcome everyone to today’s #geowebchat! We’re discussing form vs function in geoweb cartography: mappingmashups.net/2013/10/14/nex… #NACIS2013

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:01pm We’re continuing discussions from #NACIS2013 (lanyrd.com/2013/nacis/), but if you didn’t attend #NACIS you can still join #geowebchat!

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:02pm Try tools like twitterfall.com or tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat to follow along. Make sure you always include “#geowebchat” in your tweets.

@erictheise Oct 15, 12:02pm hi all. #NACIS2013 was a good time, looking forward to today’s chat #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Oct 15, 12:03pm Hey #geowebchat! Jacq from @UCalgary here. Interesting topic today! Will probably mostly lurk, but still collecting tweets for PhD research.

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:04pm First off, I set up a false debate between @awoodruff & @MapHugger: is the problem too much style or too little in web maps? #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks Oct 15, 12:04pm For more details about my PhD research looking at online learning communities check out – informallearningonline.webs.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:05pm .@awoodruff felt like he saw too many flashy maps that demo tech w/out content… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:06pm …but @MapHugger (in this talk: wired.com/wiredscience/2…) argues that flashiness makes no difference in whether maps go viral… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:08pm …& of course our #NACIS2013 keynote from @albertocairo reminded us that maps must be both insightful and beautiful to succeed #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:11pm But you know what I really want to talk about in this #geowebchat? Let’s settle once and for all whether we love or hate the wind map!

@ajturner Oct 15, 12:11pm Check out @iMuehlenhaus research of ‘Online Persuasive Maps’ ian.muehlenhaus.com/viral/ #geowebchat /cc @mappingmashups

@skorasaurus Oct 15, 12:12pm “too much style or too little” depends on map; 1 prob. is that the library being used may not be best for the map’s objective #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:13pm Thanks @ajturner, and here’s @iMuehlenhaus’s #NACIS2013 presentation along the same lines: ian.muehlenhaus.com/web-map-aesthe… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:14pm RT @nonieatvp: @mappingmashups I love it, but then again – I am a big fan of map art. Paula Scher and Matthew Cusick, etc. #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:14pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat? Could you share a link of the wind map?

@erictheise Oct 15, 12:14pm suggestions made by @MapHugger made sense, but who thinks that going viral is the measure of success for an online map? #geowebchat

@redgeographics Oct 15, 12:14pm Imho stule and message of the map (any map) are equally important. Message is the main goal, but good design attracts viewers #geowebchat

@MapGoddess Oct 15, 12:15pm hint.fm/wind/ #geowebchat

@nonieatvp Oct 15, 12:15pm @CostanzaAsnaghi @mappingmashups hint.fm/wind/ #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:15pm To be fair to @awoodruff, he also said there is a place for maps-as-examples… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:16pm …and @awoodruff praised @mbostock for clearly labeling his example maps as such bost.ocks.org/mike/example/ #geowebchat

@DonnaGenzmer Oct 15, 12:16pm @redgeographics but successfully communicating the message is important #geowebchat

@MapHugger Oct 15, 12:16pm @erictheise Employers and content strategists, for one! #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:18pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat Do you like the wind map? I think it shows interesting data, but I would not hang it on my bedroom wall.

@MapHugger Oct 15, 12:19pm @mappingmashups Both! Apps make it easy for novices to make blah maps, while js makes it easy for devs to make flashy ones #geowebchat

@DonnaGenzmer Oct 15, 12:19pm @MapGoddess …message is negated if style blocks communication. @redgeographics #geowebchat

@nonieatvp Oct 15, 12:19pm @CostanzaAsnaghi @mappingmashups I would, totally. I would use it as Live Wallpaper on my phone/tablet/device if I could. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:20pm I should confess my wind map opinion. I think it’s good. When you think that the alternative is this: aviationweather.gov/adds/data/wind… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen Oct 15, 12:21pm @mappingmashups I’m pro-wind map. It gets students interested in the possibilities of novel mappings. #geowebchat

@jscarto Oct 15, 12:21pm .@mappingmashups Modality matters. If it’s an interactive, folks cite the tech. No one points out when it’s done in Illustrator. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:21pm I feel most of the critique of the wind map is that you can’t measure values off of it. But you can with the interactivity. #geowebchat

@redgeographics Oct 15, 12:23pm @jscarto @mappingmashups I mention my maps are done in Illustrator/MAPublisher all the time :) But I may be biased ;) #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Oct 15, 12:24pm @erictheise I would say defining the ‘measure of success’ is circumstantial and subject based. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:24pm Or maybe there are people who actually think the wind map is ugly, but again, look at the alternatives for mapping wind! #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Oct 15, 12:24pm @erictheise @MapHugger the concept of ‘creating to go viral’ makes cartographers seem pretty narcissistic #geowebchat

@MapGoddess Oct 15, 12:24pm .@mappingmashups requirements assessment: does one need to measure wind? does one need a different viz? #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:25pm @mappingmashups @nonieatvp OMG! Sure, it’s very good if compared to that one. But still something does not convince me (?) #geowebchat

@jscarto Oct 15, 12:26pm .@redgeographics Ok, ok, I take it back! In general though I feel interaction emphasizes tech, static demands content has focus. #geowebchat

@JJCzaplewski Oct 15, 12:27pm @mjfoster83 @erictheise @MapHugger If no one sees a map / cares about it, was it worth making? #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:27pm This would be also my definition for wind maps: RT @mjfoster83 defining measure of success is circumstantial and subject based. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:28pm @JJCzaplewski Or if 100K ppl are 10% enlightened by a “bad” map vs 100 ppl who are 100% enlightened by a good one? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:29pm RT @BrookeEHarding: it also gives the illusion of real time data because of the animation whether it is trying to or not. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Oct 15, 12:30pm Form & function are two sides of same coin. One without other normally leads to issues in use #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Oct 15, 12:30pm @mappingmashups @JJCzaplewski ‘enlightenment’ is probably the best measure of success, but remains nebulous at best #geowebchat

@MapHugger Oct 15, 12:31pm @mjfoster83 And yet, hordes of writers, artists, etc do exactly that. Fuzzy line between popular design & selling out #geowebchat

@MapHugger Oct 15, 12:32pm @JJCzaplewski Bingo Bango. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:32pm Certainly we have to consider the needs of a map reader when designing & judging maps. But is that harder to determine online? #geowebchat

@redgeographics Oct 15, 12:34pm @mappingmashups Another static wind map (updated every 15 min iirc), less clutter and more measurable: buienradar.nl/weerkaarten/wi… #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Oct 15, 12:34pm @MapHugger completely agree, very fuzzy. melding of popular design with effective data design and communication is a holy grail #geowebchat

@razsc Oct 15, 12:35pm A question from the non-geographer in the group. should/how geographers share map reading skills with the world? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:36pm MT @all_mapped_out: I personally love it. Simplistic in design but effective in message. And it simply looks cool! #geowebchat

@MapHugger Oct 15, 12:36pm @mappingmashups Sortof. Online makes it easier for the map to be seen by people outside of its intended audience. #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:37pm Hey, but I didn’t notice that the wind map is clickable and you can read the ID of each wind — cool!! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:38pm @razsc Great question. I think in the past cartographers haven’t needed to share map-reading skills. Smaller audiences, and… #geowebchat

@MapHugger Oct 15, 12:38pm P.S. There is not and never has been a conflict between form and function. Nice-looking vis is not inherently less functional. #geowebchat

@JJCzaplewski Oct 15, 12:38pm @mappingmashups Different. Is the map reader using their phone on a dialup connection, or a powerful desktop computer w/ GFiber? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:39pm …maps were much more similar to each other, followed the same conventions. W/ new techs we have more need to guide readers #geowebchat

@emacgillavry Oct 15, 12:40pm @mappingmashups do viral maps actually consider the map reader? They rather serve to highlight novel tools or map types/designs

@MapHugger Oct 15, 12:40pm When we see a pretty vis with bad data, we blame the fact it’s pretty. When we see ugly vis with bad data, we just call it bad #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:40pm For example, the wind map could include a walk-through that shows the reader that you can click! The #nytimes maps do this well. #geowebchat

@razsc Oct 15, 12:40pm @mappingmashups Yes. Now that maps are everywhere (some good, some bad) knowledge still stuck in the rooms of AAG #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:41pm @razsc Excellent point, could be extended to different contexts/subjects. How does experts share their knowledge to non-experts? #geowebchat

@redgeographics Oct 15, 12:42pm @razsc @mappingmashups audiences are getting larger, which means cartographers are reaching out. I know #NACIS does. #geowebchat

@razsc Oct 15, 12:42pm @CostanzaAsnaghi True, although the ubiquity of maps makes this call much more prominent #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:43pm @razsc Also, what should one include/exclude in a legend? #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Oct 15, 12:43pm @razsc @CostanzaAsnaghi Map reading skills are largely congruent with critical reading skills #geowebchat

@JJCzaplewski Oct 15, 12:44pm @CostanzaAsnaghi @razsc The obsession with sharing spatial/associated tools lead us to Google maps mashups. #geowebchat

@emacgillavry Oct 15, 12:45pm Like the idea of walk-throughs to help audience understand the map and interactive elements of the interface #geowebchat

@razsc Oct 15, 12:46pm @mjfoster83 @CostanzaAsnaghi Very true. A skill that is much needed. Maybe geographer and datavis people can start with mapping #geowebchat

@razsc Oct 15, 12:47pm @JJCzaplewski @CostanzaAsnaghi is that a bad thing? :) #geowebchat

@JJCzaplewski Oct 15, 12:47pm @emacgillavry does a well designed UI require the user to spend time and energy learning it? I think not. #geowebchat

@tmcw Oct 15, 12:48pm @mappingmashups most carto-traditionalism just tells us it’s wrong to like what we like, but doesn’t present an alternative #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:48pm @emacgillavry At #NACIS2013 @albertocairo mentioned the need to guide readers thru a viz, telling them a story abt the data. #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:49pm @emacgillavry Sounds good, although it rings a bell here. Text (legend, walk-through kind of thing) as opposed to graphics. [..] #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:49pm @tmcw or doesn’t present an alternative that is relevant to today’s context. Trad carto is full of tons of (old) alternatives. #geowebchat

@JJCzaplewski Oct 15, 12:50pm @mattwensing @stormpulse Was the result a better product? #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Oct 15, 12:51pm @mappingmashups @emacgillavry @albertocairo completely agree, I would argue the guiding should be subconcious and intuitive tho #geowebchat

@CostanzaAsnaghi Oct 15, 12:51pm @emacgillavry [..] You need 2 different areas of your brain to interpret text and map. You get messed up for a fraction of sec #geowebchat

@JJCzaplewski Oct 15, 12:51pm @mattwensing Do you consider that a success? Was that the goal? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:52pm @tmcw And is it really about what ppl “like”? When paleogeographers criticize web mercator it’s not so much smthg neogeos “like” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:52pm @tmcw …those are usually things that neogeographers either aren’t thinking about, or they already know is a problem. #geowebchat

@emacgillavry Oct 15, 12:52pm @mappingmashups @JJCzaplewski was indeed thinking along lines of @albertocairo. Good design should keep that guide to a minimum #geowebchat

@JJCzaplewski Oct 15, 12:53pm @mattwensing That’s awesome and a huge success! A good argument for minimalistic UIs and “dont make me think” #geowebchat

@tmcw Oct 15, 12:54pm @mappingmashups or they understand compromise, technology and priority. #geowebchat

@vtcraghead Oct 15, 12:54pm @mappingmashups @tmcw Or hexbins :) #geowebchat

@redgeographics Oct 15, 12:55pm @mappingmashups @tmcw we ‘paleogeographers’ criticize web mercator for being what it is. But aren’t we all cartographers? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:56pm @tmcw I suppose things like unclassed choropleths are “liked” by neogeographers, but make paleos angsty. #geowebchat

@tmcw Oct 15, 12:57pm @mappingmashups paleos still haven’t learned why web mercator succeeded and wms failed #geowebchat

@nonieatvp Oct 15, 12:57pm RT @tmcw @mappingmashups paleos still haven’t learned why web mercator succeeded and wms failed #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:58pm @tmcw Yes, and now that #d3js makes projections feasible, neogeos are showing they know as much about projections as any paleo. #geowebchat

@kennethfield Oct 15, 12:58pm Carto has always evolved due to tech. Usually takes step back before going forward again. We’re on that cusp. Evolve or die #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 12:59pm We totally have to have a #geowebchat about nothing but hexbins.

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 1:00pm Anyhow, we’ve hit the end of our hour for #geowebchat. Thanks to everyone who joined, especially you new people, and the #NACIS2013 crowd.

@JessiBreen Oct 15, 1:00pm @mappingmashups Maybe @atepoorthuis could be made to participate… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 1:01pm Next #geowebchat will be in three weeks, on November 5. Topic TBD. Guest hosts are always welcome, let me know if you have a topic idea.

@kennethfield Oct 15, 1:01pm The paleo/neo thing is divisive. Leads to a lot of unnecessary preconceptions #geowebchat

@kennethfield Oct 15, 1:01pm Hexbins u say? ;-) #geowebchat

@mjfoster83 Oct 15, 1:02pm @kennethfield agree. Use the tools available to create, and tech is providing new tools. Carto is not dead, just changing. #geowebchat

@emacgillavry Oct 15, 1:02pm @CostanzaAsnaghi keep textual guide to a minimum and use ‘wayfinding’ graphics and other maps/views of the data: a #storymap ;-) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 1:02pm @kennethfield Agreed, & I was throwing stereotypes around (partly) in jest. Was pleased to see more straddling at #NACIS2013 #geowebchat

@mappingmashups Oct 15, 3:11pm RT @MapHugger: @emacgillavry Let’s distinguish b/t stepping through the UI (bad) vs stepping through the Information (good) #geowebchat

@pasteinplace Oct 16, 3:15pm Wish I could have participated in yesterday’s #geowebchat. Looks like an awesome convo; might be good to look at architecture & other fields

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